Remembering the Dead

I think as we discuss the conspiracy topics surrounding Covid, we should also remember that the virus is real and the incredible number of people who have died.

The latest official numbers just in the US stand at 584,510. Whether you believe that number or not, this thing has taken a huge number of lives. Grandparents, parents, children, grandchildren, and friends have been lost sooner than need be.

As I read through all the anti-vaccine threads and those arguing the true source of it all, I think at times we forget there has been real suffering and real lives lost. I'd hope that as we discuss the conspiracies surrounding this we do not forget that part of this all and realize that some of the people reading may have suffered losses. We should be sensitive to that.

To put this in perspective.
282,000 US Military and Allies Dead in Vietnam
33,686 US Military dead in the Korean War
407,300 US Military dead in WW2
I'm only including the US Military in these numbers.

Even if you only believe the numbers are half what's reported, it still matches the number of US dead in the Vietnam War. I think it's important we remember that and understand the magnitude of the losses to this virus.

I think the largest conspiracy in all of this is that in this day and age, we were so ill-prepared. All the scientific knowledge we have, all the resources we have and yet it still got out of control.

a reply to: Blaine91555

CDC itself says that only 6% of the 500,000+ deaths they cite are from covid-19 only. The rest of the deaths had co-morbidities or not even from covid-19 at all.

a reply to: Blaine91555

Why have you never made a “Remember the Dead” thread about flu deaths? The flu is more deadly than covid-19. This is a sincere question, by the way. Why are these deaths more nostalgic for you than regular flu deaths?

more deaths have been caused by the curfews, quarantines, closures, missed hospital appointments etc than any by the re-named flu. those deaths were in fact virtually murder.

Im sorry for the dead, and even more sorry for the future dead. I believe that is where we will see the most deaths.

I expected to see bodies in the streets last year. I saw something else.

a reply to: KansasGirl

A better question would be, why does it seem to bother you I made this thread?

I'll explain what brought this about.

I was thinking about all the threads here and it occurred to me how some of this might read to people who have lost a loved one to Covid and how they might feel. Which brought to mind my own father's history with the Spanish Flu.

He was born in 1913, so he was a child when that happened. He had 10 siblings and they lived on a remote ranch, still doing everything on horseback. 6 of his siblings died from that flu. I could only imagine what it must have been like for my grandparents. I started thinking about what it must be like for people now who have lost loved ones to read some of what I've been reading here. It occurred to me that people should have that on their minds as they talk about it.

a reply to: RoScoLaz5Add to that:
Over on this side of the water, we had state governors putting covid patients in nursing homes, guaranteeing the deaths of many.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
more deaths have been caused by the curfews, quarantines, closures, missed hospital appointments etc than any by the re-named flu. those deaths were in fact virtually murder.

And that makes the deaths due to Covid any less troubling, why? Any deaths in what you mentioned would not have happened were it not for Covid?

originally posted by: KansasGirl
a reply to: Blaine91555

CDC itself says that only 6% of the 500,000+ deaths they cite are from covid-19 only. The rest of the deaths had co-morbidities or not even from covid-19 at all.

No they didn't.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: RoScoLaz5Add to that:
Over on this side of the water, we had state governors putting covid patients in nursing homes, guaranteeing the deaths of many.

I can vouch for that one..

I would put the number of deaths directly or where the virus contributed to the death at probably just over a hundred thousand. The six percent that was stated was direct deaths, this virus probably contributed to another thirteen to fifteen percent of the deaths out of that five hundred fifty thousand deaths they are talking about. That hundred some thousand is bad enough, they did not have to inflate the numbers like they did.

My problem is the deceit in this pandemic. I feel sorry for all the people who died, whether from the virus or just dying. A lot of those who died with a direct relationship to this virus were very old and dying was possibly a godsend. Being stuck in a nursing home with people coming in to change your diaper is not something you are happy about, sometimes death is a good thing, it ends your suffering.

But still lots of those hundred thousand that died because of that virus were not in that bad of shape, it is a tragedy.

Like I said, I hate people who initiate deceit, I just feel sorry for people who parrot it without actually evaluating if it is real or pertinent. I will not condemn or promote the vaccines, everyone has their right to get it or refuse it. I am questioning the actual effectiveness of it and the fact that those who are vaccinated can still get the virus and can pass it on makes me think they are creating a monster that targets those unvaccinated when they don't require vaccinated people to wear masks. What about all those who had the virus and have natural immunity, they don't need masks but have to wear them? So since I cannot take the vaccine, I will keep wearing the mask in the store since I am honest, I could lie and say I was vaccinated like many will...but lying about it would make me as bad as those pushing false figures in our government agencies. Good way to prove the vaccine works, let all the vaccinated people who still get the virus spread it to all the people who are unvaccinated that aren't wearing masks, that should make people believe that their lies are true as these people get sick. Although, I know lots of people who would not get tested if they sneezed and since for many people this virus is just like a mild cold or flu. The only way the numbers will look bad is if someone gets a cold and gets tested.

a reply to: rickymouse

Thank you

That's the kind of conversation I wanted to see. I agree with most of what you posted.

CDC info. wwwn.cdc.gov...

Note this part: A death certificate that lists COVID-19 disease or SARS-CoV-2 as a cause of death or a significant condition contributing to death

If a person has pneumonia and the virus is in their body, it is considered a significant condition that contributed to their death. If a person has bad COPD and having a bad time with it and is exposed to the virus, it sure isn't going to make their life better.

It is important to know that this recent way they report deaths changed in 2019 which accelerates death rates to viruses of all kinds in people who die after surgeries...now they can blame the death after a surgery on the person getting a cold or the flu which seems to help doctors and hospitals make their mortality rates lower. This change was made to curb lawsuits resulting from surgeries or treatments since we cannot get rid of lawyers that chase ambulances. This kind of thing will also reduce payouts for cancer life insurance policies because the people died of a flu and not the cancer. Remember, cancer is a big thing now, lots of people got those cancer death policies years ago when cancer rates were lots lower, there were people with cancer back in the sixties and seventies...remember I was in Pre-med and back then I was always noticing things....but there were no way even close to the number of cancer incidents as nowadays, and today most people do not die of cancer so the cancer deaths have not increased, they do die from complications of surgeries and from diseases they contact after surgeries though, including cancer.

a reply to: Blaine91555

In reality, most of those reported deaths were not due to COVID but other serious health problems. In addition, certain politicians should be executed for murder for the death sentences they imposed on people in nursing homes by sending infected persons to infect the most vulnerable population. Finally, there really wasn't much if any "excess" deaths than any other year unless you inflate the numbers like they did by calling virtually everything a COVID death. How were there virtually no flu deaths this year, because they called them COVID deaths too.

The US is overly puritanical when it comes to death

Yes the virus is real; yes people (mostly the elderly) died; thats what happens when you have a pandemic.

The emotional vomiting people engaged in over individual deaths is problematic... it has lead to the suffering of so many more people when it didn't have too.

So do you feel better about yourself that you let yourself feel the agony of deaths that really didn't impact you? Was your emotional catharsis worth the pain and suffering so many people had to endure as they lost their jobs, livelihoods, education and so much more .....?

Na I don't think your feelings are worth all that loss.

a reply to: Blaine91555

It's so hard to take it seriously because even the numbers you
used can't be taken seriously. But I get what you're doing here
and how an unknown true number have died. I would feel better
about your effort if you also mentioned deaths from the vaccine
itself.

originally posted by: KansasGirl
The flu is more deadly than covid-19.

Got numbers to back that up?

originally posted by: dandandat2
The emotional vomiting people engaged in over individual deaths is problematic... it has lead to the suffering of so many more people when it didn't have too.

Was your emotional catharsis worth the pain and suffering so many people had to endure as they lost their jobs, livelihoods, education and so much more .....?

Isn't the latter the same thing you are bitchin' about in the former?

Isn't it just emotional vomiting about people loosing their jobs and some other stuff?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: dandandat2
The emotional vomiting people engaged in over individual deaths is problematic... it has lead to the suffering of so many more people when it didn't have too.

Was your emotional catharsis worth the pain and suffering so many people had to endure as they lost their jobs, livelihoods, education and so much more .....?

Isn't the latter the same thing you are bitchin' about in the former?

Isn't it just emotional vomiting about people loosing their jobs and some other stuff?

No because those people are still alive; they are still suffering; and they would be better helped if we just let the dead lie.

Advocacy for the dead amounts to not a dam thing; they are still dead no matter how much you advocate for them.

For the living we can do so much more.

originally posted by: panoz77
a reply to: Blaine91555

In reality, most of those reported deaths were not due to COVID but other serious health problems.

Wrong.