Republican Matt Gaetz Investigated For Sex Trafficking

originally posted by: Boadicea

Only because of a law written by man. Not by nature. Not by science. Not by personal autonomy.

Exactly.

This isn't rocket science.

He isn't alleged to have committed crimes against nature. He is alleged to have acted in violation of Florida law.

So imaginary lines on a map are the difference between what is possible and what is not possible?

No. Imaginary lines on a map are the difference between the jurisdiction of the law of one state or another.

In Florida it is illegal for an Adult to have sexual relations with a child under the age of 18.

It is illegal to rob a bank - that does not make it impossible to rob a bank.

Under Florida law it is not LEGALLY possible for a minor to give consent to an adult for a sexual relationship.

And you know that is what 'we' mean when we say 'not possible'. Your argument is disingenuous.

No. You stated that someone under 18 cannot consent. That is not true. She can consent regardless of the law. The girl either did so willingly of her own volition, or she did not. There is no getting around that.

Spoken like a NAMBLA true believer.

Whether or not she willingly engaged in sex with an adult is 100% immaterial. It is the adult partner who is the responsible party and the one who is breaking the law.

Her willingness may get him out of a 'forcible rape' charge, but has nothing to do with the 'statutory rape' charge.

Legal definitions are valid for legal purposes. Obviously, if a law is considered necessary, it is because it is possible for minors to consent!!! It's not about where she can or not. She obviously can. It's about whether or not the state will use the barrel of a gun to enforce their will on those who use their own free will to make a different choice. They can't even stop it from happening. They can only punish after the fact.

It is certainly possible for a minor to desire to have sex - that is not at issue. But Florida makes it a crime for an adult to have sex with a minor - its called 'statutory rape' - and rape is rape. Rape of a child is especially repugnant in our society.

Why are you constantly placing blame on the child. She cannot LEGALLY consent - her willingness to have sex does not absolve the adult of his crime. The adult is the supposed responsible party, and it is ILLEGAL for him to have sex with a minor. Period.

But more important, it is a subjective decision, not an objective fact,

No. It is 100% objective. Is she a minor? Is he an adult? Then it is illegal for them to have sexual relationships. End of story.

or there would not be different legal ages of consent in different states. If the state legislates their authority over the 17-year-old's autonomy, that is a legal difference. The girl can still consent. It is the state that does not consent.

We are discussing FLORIDA, not any other state. Just Florida. In Florida the age of consent is 18. The girl with whom he is alleged to have had sexual relations is (or was at the time) 17.

The girl can be WILLING. She cannot LEGALLY CONSENT.

If he has broken any laws, then charge him and give him his day in court, let him be judged by a jury of his peers, and the chips will fall where they may.

Yes, absolutely.

But I'm not going to pretend like this is anything more than it is.

What do you mean by 'pretend it is anything more than it is'?

What is 'more' than the rape of a child?

13 pages of slandering and theres not even any proof that this person even actually EXISTS!

On top of that there IS proof that there was an attempt to extort millions in exchange to settle.

Shouldnt that BOTHER all of you going after Gaetz? That if there WAS sex trafficking or sex with a minor theyre perfectly fine sweeping it under the rug for MONEY?!

That should be the bigger story right now, considering there is actual evidence of THAT

But of course it doesnt matter to you guys, because this is just faux outrage because he has an R after his name.

You guys dont give two craps about this alleged person , if you did you would be demanding everything on Bidens Sons laptop be made available and him and Joe having the book thrown at them. Especially with the ties to sex trafficking in Ukraine and China.

So please , spare us your hair on fire and hand waiving.

originally posted by: underwerks
I’d say the real question is if Trumps DOJ and AG knew about it, why hasn’t anything been done about it until now?

Because it wasn't a useful political tool for the left until now. If he committed statutory rape, then he deserves to be punished. But there is very little evidence of this as of now. If he is found guilty of what he is being accused of, he deserves what he gets, bubba in prison will have fun with him. You will never see a democrat say this if the shoe was on the other foot.

Man, there sure are a lot of you choosing the most slimy, rancid, scummy hill to die on in defending this maggot.

a reply to: CrazyWater

Two words:

Pizza
Gate

a reply to: rnaa

Spoken like a NAMBLA true believer.

Spoken like a true... nevermind. If you have to go there, to personal attacks and insults, then you know you've already lost the argument.

With the additional information coming out now, it seems that Gaetz has quite a history as a disgusting creepy creeper, and it's actually shocking that none of this has come out before. It's sure coming out now. And, AGAIN, if he's broken any laws, then charge him, try him, let a jury of his peers judge him. Easy peasy.

But it's still not comparable to genuine pedophilia, or the many women and girls who are violently and brutally raped and beaten and tortured and killed. There is no moral relativity. And I will not feign outrage for cheap political points.

It is what it is.

Oh! And be prepared, if you haven't heard/read already, that the girl was in fact basically a willing and paid prostitute. That's not me "attacking" her or "blaming" her. I'm not judging her for it. I feel sorry for her. But I have hope for her as well. Which I do not have for too many other women and girls, who are not so lucky.

originally posted by: CrazyWater
13 pages of slandering and theres not even any proof that this person even actually EXISTS!

To be fair, as a minor, she should not be named publcly. No good can come of that. I read that "sources" are saying that she testified before a Grand Jury recently. We'll see what comes of that. But for now, I'm good that she hasn't been named.

On the other hand, though, she is supposedly not the only female in the picture, and presumably the other females were adult women. Why aren't we hearing their names?

On top of that there IS proof that there was an attempt to extort millions in exchange to settle.

Shouldnt that BOTHER all of you going after Gaetz? That if there WAS sex trafficking or sex with a minor theyre perfectly fine sweeping it under the rug for MONEY?!

Apparently not.

That should be the bigger story right now, considering there is actual evidence of THAT

Apparently not. Presumably, if Gaetz had paid up, this all would have gone away. He would have been in the clear and no one ever would have heard a word about it, and Gaetz could continue being a creepy creeper, and all would be well. That's just fine and dandy. I guess it's really just an outrage because Gaetz wouldn't pay their piper.

Which makes me wonder -- again and still -- just how much of this crap is brushed under the rug after the guilty pays the piper? Hell, they even had a congressional slush fund to pay off the women who complained of sexual harassment by congress critters!!! We've got the LGBT demanding a lower age of consent... some want NO legal age of consent... but I don't hear anyone worrying about that. I didn't see all this moral outrage in the Reddit thread with real examples of pedophiles and pedophilia grooming kids, abusing kids, inviting them to their homes for hormone shots... No one was outraged over the trans pedophile who kidnapped a 10-year-old girl, tied her to a beam in his attic, and proceeded to rape, beat, electrocute and otherwise torture this girl all while wearing a pretty little girl dress and diaper.... No one is worried about the many women who are being strangled and killed during "sex play"...

So much genuine abuse. But they reserve their outrage for a GOP critter on a legal definition of "rape" ONLY by law, than actual abuse and violence against women and children.

But of course it doesnt matter to you guys, because this is just faux outrage because he has an R after his name.

You guys dont give two craps about this alleged person , if you did you would be demanding everything on Bidens Sons laptop be made available and him and Joe having the book thrown at them. Especially with the ties to sex trafficking in Ukraine and China.

Probably the best example of all. Well said.

originally posted by: fencesitter85
Man, there sure are a lot of you choosing the most slimy, rancid, scummy hill to die on in defending this maggot.

Big deep sigh. Again, you already know you've lost the argument if you have to resort to personal attacks and insults and hyperbole.

I don't believe for a minute that even you believes that crap you just spewed. You know damn well that much MUCH worse can and has happened and is happening. Actual abuse against unwilling and unconsenting women and children. Your words minimize and belittle the very real abuse in this world. Just to get in a few cheap political points.

And despite your outright lie, not one person here has defended Gaetz. Most have clearly stated that if he's committed crimes, then charge him and give him his day in court. Not one person has said otherwise.

On the other hand, we all know that when Hunter was faced with the same charges, with actual proof on his own laptop, deliberately kept from the public by Big Media and Big Tech, all the pearl clutchers over Gaetz didn't have a damn thing to say about that.

I can't even call it hypocritical. Hypocrisy requires some morals to begin with. This is just cheap opportunism, and exploiting the genuine morals and empathy of the public to destroy a political enemy by those with no morals or empathy.

originally posted by: fencesitter85
Man, there sure are a lot of you choosing the most slimy, rancid, scummy hill to die on in defending this maggot.

Nobody will defend him if he is guilty of what the accusations are. There is little evidence yet that he is guilty of anything yet. Unlike Cuomo, who is a serial sexual assaulter.

Why has no one mentioned the more interesting part of this whole saga.

Yes I agree If Gaetz is guilty then please punish him.

Here is what I find more interesting in this whole situation, is 2 ex intelligence officers were trying to extort an elected official about the possible offenses and throwing in the carrot of saving mr Levinsons life from Iran, all for the measly sum of $25 mill. Yet gaetz came out on tucker and named and classed the operation where he was working with the FBI.

If I look at this I have some questions?
Why would 2 ex intelligence officers decide to do this who are they working for because they are claiming the ability to release a person from Iranian prison. If they have done this to gaetz who else have they done it to. Why extort gaetz why did they want him in the future. Who at the FBI leaked this information to the NYT.

Things to think about when addressing the left on this site:

- Biden gets called out by people on the right for feeling up on some little girls on camera, yet nobody here on the left cares.

- Matt has allegations of sex with minor and its headlines without any proof he's guilty and the typical posters come out outraged.

- The left on this site screamed nonstop about Trump's policies on the border that was only to fix the crisis Obama and Biden started of putting kids in cages.

- Biden removes Trumps policies causing the same emergency Trump just fixed at the border and starts putting kids in cages again. Nobody on the left on ATS care anymore.

- Trump wanted to build a wall to keep illegals from flooding our country. The left here on this site claimed that walls don't work, yet they somehow work when they install one around the capitol?

- Had an entire summer of burning and looting cities, killing innocent business owners, destroying small businesses all over politics by a organization tied to the DNC called BLM, the left here on ATS say it's needed and cheer it on.

- Some Trump supporters protest at the capitol and bring their issues directly with the people causing the issues and the left here on ATS cry about it nonstop and claim all Trump supporters are terrorists.

- The left on this site scream racist for everything they disagree with since they have no other argument, yet blindly support the party that invented what they hate so much...White Supremacy!

Rant over

a reply to: Brit-Tex

Why has no one mentioned the more interesting part of this whole saga.

Because the extortion claim is a furphy and has nothing to do with Matt Gaetz.

1) Levenson was already dead when the supposed attempted extortion took place.
2) The 'extortion letter' was more badly written that you average Nigerian advance fee scam
3) The NGO agency that claims to have actually tried to finance the ransom demand, did so years ago and failed.
4) The NGO agency has the original documents and can demonstrate that it isn't anything to do with extortion.
5) The supposed extortion attempt is being investigated.
6) The supposed extortion attempt is not related in any way what-so-ever with Matt Gaetz lifestyle troubles.
7) Matt Gaetz behavior is being investigated completely separately to the supposed extortion attempt.
8) Matt Gaetz invented the entire connection from whole cloth to distract from his own troubles.

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
So let's all blame the messenger, the NYT, and say nothing about what Gaetz supposedly did. Typical for ATS. Deny ignorance, LOL!

Or don't blame anyone, don't hypothesize anything, and be patient to see what happens...

As a conservative GOP he will get zero safe cover in the news media so if anything comes up we'll know about it. The fact that we don't have much more to go on than conjecture suggests to me that this is a lame attempt at spooking or harassing him.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
So let's all blame the messenger, the NYT, and say nothing about what Gaetz supposedly did. Typical for ATS. Deny ignorance, LOL!

As a conservative GOP he will get zero safe cover in the news media so if anything comes up we'll know about it. The fact that we don't have much more to go on than conjecture suggests to me that this is a lame attempt at spooking or harassing him.

You hit the nail on the head. The Matt Gaetz saga was simply the media trying to conjure up a story to distract from the DUD President that Joe Biden is proving to be.

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: MiddleInsite
So let's all blame the messenger, the NYT, and say nothing about what Gaetz supposedly did. Typical for ATS. Deny ignorance, LOL!

As a conservative GOP he will get zero safe cover in the news media so if anything comes up we'll know about it. The fact that we don't have much more to go on than conjecture suggests to me that this is a lame attempt at spooking or harassing him.

You hit the nail on the head. The Matt Gaetz saga was simply the media trying to conjure up a story to distract from the DUD President that Joe Biden is proving to be.

Oh. Biden isn’t a DUD.

The democrats have a very effective “suicide bomb” that has the USA an a self destructive path that we have seen ruin other countries in the destruction of standard of living and economic growth.

a reply to: Boadicea

No. You stated that someone under 18 cannot consent. That is not true. She can consent regardless of the law.

Wow.

I really didn’t expect any right wingers here to use the excuse that a minor can consent to having sex. It seems there isn’t anything you guys wouldn’t support if it meant protecting a right wing politician. Even a 38 year old man having sex with an underaged girl.

a reply to: underwerks

Wow.

I really didn’t expect any right wingers here...

I'm not a "right winger." I'm just me. No political party. No labels. No boxes. No echo chambers. No partisan bubbles.

...to use the excuse that a minor can consent to having sex.

Not an excuse for anything. Just the plain truth in simple terms that anyone can understand. Because there is a very big difference -- literal and moral -- between consent and force. A very important difference. A legal difference.

I get that you really really want to conflate the two because it serves your political purposes but the facts are the facts.

It seems there isn’t anything you guys wouldn’t support if it meant protecting a right wing politician. Even a 38 year old man having sex with an underaged girl.

I'm not protecting Gaetz. No one is protecting Gaetz. I and others have very clearly stated that if he has committed crimes, then charge him and let him be judged by a jury of his peers.

On the other hand, we know that there isn't anything you guys wouldn't hide and censor if it meant protecting the son of a left wing VP/prez candidate... including sex with underage Ukrainian and Russian girls who have been forced into sex slavery and trafficked across international borders... and his own underage niece grieving the death of her father.

Prove me wrong.... Condemn Hunter Biden and everyone who has protected him. Right here and right now.

a reply to: Boadicea

Not an excuse for anything. Just the plain truth in simple terms that anyone can understand. Because there is a very big difference -- literal and moral -- between consent and force. A very important difference. A legal difference.

Nope. A minor can’t legally consent. That’s the law. You have a completely warped understanding of age of consent. And frankly, it’s sickening.

Prove me wrong.... Condemn Hunter Biden and everyone who has protected him. Right here and right now.

Arrest Hunter Biden and throw him under the jail for all I care. This thread isn’t about Hunter Biden. I can’t think of anyone that actually cares about Hunter Biden except right wingers.

I.Don’t.Care.

Frankly I’d appreciate it if you didn’t reply to any of my comments ever again. People like you who make excuses for adults having sex with minors help perpetuate this kind of abuse. And as someone who had had to deal with something similar personally I’d prefer it if you stayed away from me.

Thanks in advance.

a reply to: underwerks

Nope. A minor can’t legally consent.

And "legally" is the operative word here. She can literally consent. It's the state that is not consenting, hence the "legally."

That’s the law.

Yes, that's the law denying an underage person the legal right to consent. I am being very clear in my terms, for very specific reasons, because there is a very big difference between forced sex and consensual sex. I will not conflate the two. Neither does the law. There are also very big differences in charges and sentencing for forced sex (literal rape) and consensual sex (statutory rape). As it should be.

You have a completely warped understanding of age of consent.

No, I have a very good understanding of age of consent laws. Including that there is no universally accepted age of consent, that it is a subjective judgment, and that it varies by state law.

And frankly, it’s sickening.

Stating simple facts is sickening? Okay.

However, since many states have lower ages of consent than 18 years old, I suggest you tell those states that it is, frankly, sickening, and that they need to reform their age of consent laws ASAP. I didn't make those laws. I cannot change those laws. I'll leave you to get right on that... quick quick like a bunny now!