Harry Dunns killer was US spy operating illegally in the UK.

So it turns out the murderer of Harry Dunn, Anne Sacoolas, was actually a US spy operating illegally in the UK under the guise of being married to a US diplomat.

The events unfolded in the US as Anne and her lawyer directly implicated herself under oath in a seperate legal challenge to have all charges dropped. Her lawyer claimed the reason she fled the UK was confidential but her work was a security risk and reason she fled the UK. This relevation is completely contradictory to her prior story and the US refusal to extradite her.

She was found guilty of death by dangerous driving after failing to notice she was driving on the wrong side of the road for a few miles and fatally hitting teenage motorcyclist, Harry Dunn, in a head on collision. She fled to the US claiming diplomatic immunity as her husband is a spy. The US refused a UK extradition request claiming she had immunity as a spouse but failed to disclose the truth that she was a US spy herself and thus had no immunity offered by diplomatic protection.

Boris Johnson has stated that the UK had no knowlege that she was a spy and had been informed by the US that she was the spouse of a diplomat who had no role in the UK and says the incident is a Denial of Justice.

Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has been summoned to Parliament to explain to the House if he misled the House about her employment at RAF Cloughton or took US embassy claims she was not employed at the site at face value instead of thoroughly investigating them.

www.bbc.co.uk...

It was extremely shady to begin with, now, more so..what can they do..probably nothing

a reply to: bastion

I guess being a spy would give her immunity which she didn't have as a spouse ... I don't believe she was a spy , a spy would know which side of the road to drive on.

a reply to: gortex

Spies are actually trained to drive on the wrong side of the road as it gives greater vidibility of on coming traffic around bends.

This woman, however, was simply 'in another place' so what ever she was working on was filling her mind.

I think this is tit for tat for Gary Mckinnon, the hacker who walked in to the NASA & Pentagon systems, and left a note saying "Your security is crap".

Justice will be done at some time, I'm sure.

RIP Harry Dunn, and peace to his familly.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: bastion
... I don't believe she was a spy , a spy would know which side of the road to drive on.

[CAVEAT]I know nothing before or currently about any of this event.

But I do believe that the above statement is more than true for anyone that would be in the intelligence community working abroad.


Johnny

Just because she is a spy doesn't mean shes a competent driver though.
Lots of people are expert at whatever but not great drivers.

She may be the kind of spy who never has to drive-like a financial/economic or cyber/hacking kind of spy.

Obviously shouldn't have been on the road though.

In fairness it is people in the UK that drive on the wrong side of the road not this poor lady.

a reply to: bastion

First of all this gives the UK impetus to reverse the patently unfair and US biased extradition treatise that was signed against the will or knowledge of the British public and that biases the entire system in favour of the US, woolly haired up your arse Boris is not going to fix it though but I hope I am wrong on that.

Second it suggests the US was doing something it should not have been inside the UK it's closest ally, nothing new there they have stored nuclear warheads without our OFFICIAL consent, held onto areas in supposedly closed down air bases notably underground facility's and many other such shenanigans.

Thirdly it shows we should NOT trust the US implicitly was we have as the virtual unofficial 51st state of the US or as we called it the largest aircraft carrier in the US navy, about time we started to regain our own Position in the world and stop acting like a geriatric hanging onto a grandkid that hates us apparently.

If the US is going to play dirty with us then we should move them onto an equal standing with OTHER foreign allies and no longer offer them preferential treatment.

Sadly that is not how it work's since the city of London is there off shore piggy bank and our governments are up the city's arse so what the city says is what goes - very democratic since the city basically hardly benefits the British people at all and only artificially inflates our GDP over our real GDP which if you take the city away is rather a lot smaller.

That said with the EU trying to drive a wedge between the UK and the US by sabotaging those same city of London institutions AND with an old codger in the white house (I am all for older leaders so long as they remember today may be the day God call's them and start to care about the kid's of there nations but not if they are all for the money men) that is trying to force us to undemocratically reverse Brexit telling us HE not the British people HE wants us in Europe well things may work out very differently indeed.

The UK and US will always have a special relationship we are family after all but sometimes family's have fallings out and the US behaviour were this woman is concerned has turned a lot of the UK public's stomach's.

You know what makes this even more of a travesty, she would likely have been given a driving ban, a suspended sentence and possibly a fine that is much, much smaller than she could have been hit by in the US and Harry's family even if the had sued for compensation would never have been awarded anywhere near the level of pay out they would have been given in the US in a similar case, basically petty change covered by her employers and her refusal to face charges has now blown her cover, someone was not thinking this out and has made a mess of it now permanently destroying her field agent value which would have remained completely intact had they just played the UK system as they should have and at least let Harry's parent's have a sense of justice done and an apology from her not that it would have brought there boy back.

So to put it mildly whoever made these decisions is an idiot, no literally an idiot, they have turned an accident into an international incident, upset there closest ally like it does not matter and blown there agent's cover irreparably.


Actually I am with Gortex on that, it may be an attempt in claiming she was a spy to try to smooth it over with the UK, not that we would not be concerned since GCHQ is our agency that basically works for the NSA so close is there relationship, but we have had serious holes in our agency's in the past and the US in there's so we don't share everything basically as that is in the interests of both party's but it has always been understood we work for mutual benefit.

So if it is a cover story it is once again the work of an Idiot, it will complicate our relations with US intelligence agency's and give some the reason to call for greater oversight of what our Allies agents and agency's are doing in our country, that may not even be made public but because of such a claim we will be watching more closely, so yes an Idiot once again.

What happened to all those cold war agent's, these modern ones are not fit for purpose?.

The best spy agency in the world today and that is because it is still in a constant cutting edge game of life and death is Mossad, James Bond and the fem fatale of fiction are useful in there element but most useful as distraction while the real agent's who you would not look at twice go about there work undetected.
I would argue that yes pretty woman are useful but she was just slightly too attractive for the non descript type of role that an undercover agent's really want's to have.

Thing's that would give a yank away, teeth too perfect (most nations have teeth that look more like Stonehenge than an architects rendering of a polar ice berg) difficulty with local cuisine, language and mannerism unless they are trained properly and properly acclimatized by there handlers, also the yank's tend to look - healthy - nothing like a poor complexion to help you go under, do a role too perfectly?.

But not all spy's are chosen for there acting ability or there blend in characteristics, memory, ability to indirectly yet minutely observe, in the security industry I met officers that could give you details down to the button colour and size using just there peripheral vision, mine is a blur theirs is something much more rare, I have met a guard who could drive perfectly with his windscreen completely misted over so thick I could not see a thing through it a most disconcerting experience but he was perfectly comfortable with a misted windshield.

Spy's are sometimes nothing but observers.

Either way the US is no amateur unlike this debacle is making out so someone is just playing silly buggers in my opinion.


The fact is we do not want blood, we do not hate this stupid idiot of a driver who could not even drive on the CORRECT side of the road in the UK, we are annoyed at what happened and sad for Harry's mum and dad.

But we are insulted by the US agency's responsible antic's on this, we do not want a souring of relations but we want an equal partnership or it is a BAD partnership, we want to be respected and our laws respected.

As for the idea of this being tit for tat, no I don't believe it is but the US had not right moral, ethical or otherwise to try to extradite a British AUTISTIC citizen to face a kangaroo court when they have such a vile judicial system and prison system, such unholy abuse of human right's and as it was only to cover for the failings of morons that could not even password protect there vital data, also according to McKinnon he was not the only one on those computers there were Chinese spies and other's all helping themselves to far more important information than the UFO's he was looking for.

I actually think the McKinnon case was an attempt at Damage control, if the US really left classified servers open to the world like that then someone need's to be fired and even jailed over there for putting there national security at risk but in my opinion they were BAIT, bread crumb's to lead foreign hackers into trap's and trace them and if not then I am thinking too highly of them which I hope for there sake I am not.

Mind you the Russians were that concerned about the West and Chinese hacking there systems that they went back to analogue

a reply to: LABTECH767

The fact is WE want the US to be well, but to play fair with it's allies, I know the old cold war blew over and the new one has been artificially stimulated for whatever reason that left a period between the old and the new were government's ours included repurposed spy agency's to economic roles and corporate espionage and I know that redraws who is friend and foe in the espionage business but come on we are family more or less and so are you.

So come on US get your house in order, we need you and you actually NEED us.

originally posted by: Metallicus
In fairness it is people in the UK that drive on the wrong side of the road not this poor lady.

When in Rome do as the Romans do otherwise face the consequences.

By her reckless actions a poor motorcyclist was killed and his family left with no justice , your pity is misplaced.

a reply to: gortex

AND besides we are the ones that drive on the CORRECT side of the road, the only reason that this was changed in other country's was as a kind of disarmament strategy among there populace.

Traditionally as you walked or rode on horse down a road in ANY nation you would do so on the left side of the path so as to keep your fighting arm ready to act against enemy's coming in the other direction, common sense really.

Then someone had the idea that making them move on the RIGHT side of the road made it less likely that they would get into a fight since there left hand was on the side of the oncoming potential threat instead.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Have you considered writing a book?

a reply to: bastion

Has anyone considered this was a hit and not an accident? Could a Harry Dunn have been more than an innocent motorcyclist? No? Let’s just take things at face value then.

originally posted by: Metallicus
In fairness it is people in the UK that drive on the wrong side of the road not this poor lady.

What about the poor lad that was killed? Anything?

originally posted by: Metallicus
In fairness it is people in the UK that drive on the wrong side of the road not this poor lady.

What a complete load of rubbish, and that "poor lady" as you put it killed an innocent young man riding on the correct side of the road.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: gortex


Then someone had the idea that making them move on the RIGHT side of the road made it less likely that they would get into a fight since there left hand was on the side of the oncoming potential threat instead.

Napoleon Bonaparte started the trend, as he was left handed. When the French conquered most of Europe, they converted these countries over to riding on the right side of the road, and it has remained that way.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: bastion

I guess being a spy would give her immunity which she didn't have as a spouse ... I don't believe she was a spy , a spy would know which side of the road to drive on.

Agreed but she's now Senior Section Chief for the CIA at Langley Virginia. RAF Craughton is an NSA listening post intercepting communicatinos from Russia and Europe (same place the US spied on Merkel's phone calls). Her husband and herself have numerous convictions for dangerous driving around the CIA HQ in the US dating back to 2000. The White House held a celebration of her spy career last May.


Strangely it's the opposite. Any US military or Gov staff in the UK face the same laws as you or I. There's no immunity from prosecution or extradition.

The US was claiming she had diplomatic immunity and couldn't be extradited under the Vienna Convention as she was in the UK as the spouse of a US diplomat so could claim diplomatic immunity.

The evidence herself and her lawyer submitted in the US shows she wasn't entitled to any immunity as she was staff there.

Fully agree a spy should be capable of noticing basic stuff like all the road signs are facing the opposite direction and all oncoming traffic is in the same lane as her; but in UK intel at least things are divided into Operations Officer (working in the field, essential not to draw any attention to yourself) and Intel Officer (sit behind a computer all day classifying if a statement is true or false or if more info is needed; generally nerds who are useless at practical things).

She was a CIA operative in the US and her 'husband' is a CIA operative (on secondment to NSA) under the UK acting illegally under the guise of being a diplomat. There was a rumour and claims by the Dunn's family lawyer this time last year that she was a Senior CIA operative stationed at Claughton working on Russian Cables and phonecalls (fluent Russian speaker). Since fleeing justice in the UK she's been promoted to Senior CIA Officer at Langley, Virginia in May last year.

It seems standards are so low that someone who can't tell left from right, is thick enough to grass themselves up in court without realising it and is incapable put a semi-coherrent or beleivable cover story together is not only employed as a spy but is one of the sernior ones in the US.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: bastion

Has anyone considered this was a hit and not an accident? Could a Harry Dunn have been more than an innocent motorcyclist? No? Let’s just take things at face value then.

That makes no sense. Why would a secretary/bean-counter be carrying out a hit? If it was a hit she wouldn't have been driving her own car, registered to her own name. She would be in disguise, her identity would be secret, no evidence would have been left and there's thousands of better ways to kill someone than than leaving it up to chance whether the intended victim and person carrying out the hit survive..

The person she killed was a 19 year old kid and there's been dozens of cases of US staff at RAF Croughton driving on the wrong side of the road and causing accidents before and since.

a reply to: Metallicus
have you any idea just how many countries drive on the left ? it is more than you think .

originally posted by: Metallicus
In fairness it is people in the UK that drive on the wrong side of the road not this poor lady.

Poor lady?

And when in Rome..you know the rest.

originally posted by: tom farnhill
a reply to: Metallicus
have you any idea just how many countries drive on the left ? it is more than you think .

He's a bit ignorant, meh.