Dark matter might not exist

Actual headline.

"Maybe 'dark matter' doesn't exist after all, new research suggests"

I've never bought into the whole dark matter theory as it always felt like a way to spackle in the holes in mathematics. This object isn't moving like we predicted so dark matter is the reason.

"For decades, astronomers, physicists and cosmologists have theorized that the universe is filled with an exotic material called "dark matter" that explains the stranger gravitational behavior of galaxies and galaxy clusters."

Now we are not talking about a bit hear and there, no no, we are talking about 75% of the universe.

"Now, an international team of scientists says it has found new evidence that perhaps dark matter doesn’t really exist after all.

In research published in November in the Astrophysical Journal, the scientists report tiny discrepancies in the orbital speeds of distant stars that they think reveals a faint gravitational effect – and one that could put an end to the prevailing ideas of dark matter."

I feel I should point out that dark matter has been the subject of many peer reviewed papers over the years and that alone should give everyone an indication of what peer review actually is.
It does not constitute proof.

There is a huge difference between what can be proven and what is just theory. The exact reason I refuse to jump on the global warming bandwagon.

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edit on 2/3/2021 by Blaine91555 because: edited in "ex" tags

a reply to: Bluntone22

Dark matter's always felt like one of those things humans made up to fill in gaps in knowledge that'll end up being just as make believe as the aether, the humours, that kinda stuff.

Every other time in history humans have just straight made something up to fill in a blank, we've been wrong. Why would this time be different?

It is called 'dark' matter because it is totally undetectable and has never been observed on any spectrum. The reason they need dark matter to exist is so it fits the current standing theories. It's the opposite of science.

I totally agree. I personally think that gravity itself is far more complex a force than anyone really gets.

Instead of a direct pull, I think there is an ever so slight rotational characteristic that is not really considered.

Fred..

originally posted by: fredrodgers1960
I totally agree. I personally think that gravity itself is far more complex a force than anyone really gets.

Instead of a direct pull, I think there is an ever so slight rotational characteristic that is not really considered.

Fred..

Take a 4" pvc pipe and stand it up perfectly level. Drop a ball down it and see if it moves from the original position before you dropped it. Any deviation will prove your theory.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I've never bought into the whole dark matter theory as it always felt like a way to spackle in the holes in mathematics. This object isn't moving like we predicted so dark matter is the reason.

Kind of like "Quantum (everything)", huh? Some physicist runs into a brick wall researching something and they label their findings as proof of "Quantum (insert problem du jour)". It's like "FM" (Fooking Majik)..."Voila'! And, there we have it, ladies and gentlemen, getting from state (x) to state (z) is precisely where the fabled "FM" circuit resides"

It's that whacky place where time goes backwards, up is now down, black is white.. and cats lay with dogs.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Racist!

LOL

a reply to: chr0naut

Dark matter matters?

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: chr0naut

Dark matter matters?

If the stars burn, therefore they are made out of wood, and astronomers, who are made out of the same star stuff, are witches.

It is only rational.

Dark Matter Matters ™ ® !

originally posted by: cooperton
It is called 'dark' matter because it is totally undetectable and has never been observed on any spectrum. The reason they need dark matter to exist is so it fits the current standing theories. It's the opposite of science.

Dark Matter is the modern version of Aether Theory. It's existence is posited because the current understanding of physics requires that "something" be there, even tho by all appearances there isn't anything there.

Aether Theory was discarded when physicists came to understand that electromagnetic energy can transmit across a vacuum. Previously, it was thought that light needed some kind of matter to propagate, and since space was a vacuum they posited that "Aether" filled the universe, even if they couldn't detect it.

The parallels to Dark Matter & Dark Energy are pretty obvious.

a reply to: cooperton

It is called 'dark' matter because it is totally undetectable and has never been observed on any spectrum. The reason they need dark matter to exist is so it fits the current standing theories. It's the opposite of science.

Dark matter isn't needed to fit the current theories, it's needed to fit the observational evidence with respect to galactic rotation curves and gravitational lensing. Scientists would love if dark "matter" didn't exist because then our models of the universe wouldn't need extra tweaking to account for it. I say "matter" with quotes because it could easily be some sort of force as this research suggests.

From what I understand this research is purported to show evidence in favor of Modified Newtonian Dynamics (MOND), but most scientists will tell you there are many issues with modified gravity theories, such as the inability to explain excessive gravitational lensing. I'm highly skeptical of all WIMP theories, but I'm even more skeptical of MOND theories because there's even less evidence and logic to support them.

Another researcher also points out how the "external field effect" may not be something which is unique to MOND, I don't really see why our current theories for gravity wouldn't predict a similar effect. Even if it is a unique prediction of MOND I have strong doubts that the effect is significant enough to fully explain observed galactic rotation curves.

He has doubts, however, that the “external field effect” reported in the new research is truly a unique prediction of MOND, and that it cannot be explained by some competing theories.

Personally, I don't think dark "matter" exists, scientist just love creating a new particle to explain everything because it has worked so many times before. The most popular explanation for dark matter by far is weakly interacting massive particles (WIMPs), however there is a huge amount of evidence which rules out virtually all WIMP theories, which is a very strong indication that new particles are not the solution.

The lack of results from the XENON1T and the PandaX experiment allowed physicists to narrow down the mass of dark matter candidates and they found that it largely ruled out massive particles such as WIMPs. Here's an article from 2018:

In a paper published July 12 in the journal Physical Review Letters, a team of researchers interpreted the null data from PandaX to put new limits on what dark matter could possibly be — and the work offers possible alternative explanations for what could really be out there.
...
It shows, he said, that certain proposed explanations for dark matter — most importantly, WIMPs, which should show up in an experiment on the scale of PandaX — are likely incorrect. Dark-matter particles are likely much smaller than WIMPs would have to be, he said, and may not behave in ways that make them easy to study.

Another Dark-Matter Search Fails — Shedding Light on the Universe

Here's an article from a few days ago which talks about new research which places even tighter bounds on the mass for any potential dark matter candidate. They rule out not only massive particles but also very small particles:

"What we've done shows that dark matter cannot be either 'ultra-light' or 'super-heavy' as some theorise - unless there is an as-yet unknown additional force acting on it. This piece of research helps physicists in two ways: it focuses the search area for dark matter, and it will potentially also help reveal whether or not there is a mysterious unknown additional force in the Universe."
...
Based on the assumption that only gravity can interact with dark matter, they determined that the mass of the particle should fall between 10^-3 electronvolts and 10^7 electronvolts, depending on the spins of the particles, and the nature of dark matter interactions.

That's insanely smaller than the 10^-24 electronvolt to 10^19 gigaelectronvolt range traditionally ascribed, the researchers said. And that's important, because it largely excludes some candidates, such as WIMPs (weakly interacting massive particles).

In a World First, Physicists Narrow Down The Possible Mass of Dark Matter

Makes one really wonder how WIMPs are still the most popular theory doesn't it? The reason I bring this up is because despite how weak the WIMP theory is, I still think MOND theories are weaker and have more flaws. That's ultimately why I lean more towards the bimetric relativity models I've been posting about over the last few years, it explains more without all the holes.

For anyone interested here are some links:

Bimetric Relativity, Twin Universe Cosmology, Negative Energy
The Hourglass Universe and Black Holes
A possible solution to dark matter and dark energy

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Actual headline.

"Maybe 'dark matter' doesn't exist after all, new research suggests"

There is a huge difference between what can be proven and what is just theory. The exact reason I refuse to jump on the global warming bandwagon.

There certainly are discrepancies in the way GW has been presented over the years, I somewhat agree with you there.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I am of open mind were the concept of dark matter is concerned however I have never really believed in it.

Where I believe it is of immense incalculable value is the search, they may not find exactly what they are looking for but they are going to learn a lot along the way.

That said I would not be too surprised if dark matter does exist though likely not in the quantity's they want it to.


For me the big bang was (no not an out of control frat party) a result of an inversion event, a tiny bubble of a pre-existing time space continuum was trapped at the centre of a true black hole (not one of those really itchy and stinky hawking ones - aka brown holes), this trapped tiny point at the central LaGrange point at the core of the mass that was collapsing into a black hole then by definition was surrounded on all sides by the sudden formation of a black hole and had no where to go since it was being pulled in all direction's.

Cue an inversion as this tiny fragment of trapped time space was pulled inside out and a white hole formed, from the white hole within this space the material for a new time space continuum formed, it not only exploded outward and then slowed but was also still subject to the external gravity of the black hole that had caused it to form, one of the things that was poured out was fresh time, time at a faster rate than the older time space continuum so relative to that everything that goes on in the seemingly tiny but in actuality full sized time space continuum created this way moves at a rate faster than that of the surrounding older time space continuum outside the black hole that surrounds it, it will continue to have a time differential though a constantly decreasing one which will only synchronize at the moment of total quantum evaporation of the surrounding black hole which will also coincide with total entropy of the newer internal time space continuum.

Of course the white hole pushed out enough energy to also create ANOTHER black hole around itself, think of it like onion skin's, between which are time space continuum's and toward the white hole time is always moving faster while away from it toward the outer shell of each continuum time is slower and slower again in the surrounding continuum, perhaps even ad infinitum.

So there are other explanations for a seemingly accelerating (unless that has now been disproven) universe that the red shift analysis of a few decades ago revealed.

Without the need to explain that seeming acceleration most of the argument for this AND also for dark matter falls on it's face.


Of course it's all circular logic, who knows what reality is really made up - the living thought and will of God is my always fall back answer, time space quantum string and resonance theory's, his footstep's echo in the halls of the deep, in the beginning was God and with God was the WORD of God, spoken into being, created by the word, a single harp string plucked by the divine breath into infinite resonant vibrations.

a reply to: [post=25747694]Bluntone22[/pos
Nope.

when we finally realize and admit the electrical properties and magnetism in space. We will realize electricity magnetism and conduction make up for dark matter and dark energy.

Agreed. The maths is wrong. The equations are wrong. Dark Matter was an invisible band aid to cover the gaping holes in the physics.

The only thing to say is that we really are in the dark and that does matter. a reply to: Bluntone22

a reply to: Bluntone22

Funny posts today! #Black Matter Lives Matter! Dumb politics is all anyone talks about anymore. And racism is just blacks vs whites while every race is subject to its injustices. The only honest way forward is to either hate all races equally or see our planet as “human occupants only”...

But that is just orbital politics!

Starting with regular matter, you “run the movie backwards” and you find The Big Bang.

You count all the particles and energy and come up short on accounting for everything (it is an accounting problem, not math or physics!). Say, over and over, there is some kind of stuff that we cannot detect so it shall be knighted [Sir] “Dark Matter/Energy”. Even though the Roundtable never even existed the story is told and retold so much everyone knows it as “true history”.

As far the “quantum [insert pet theory here]” goes, the regular QM does a good enough job on the stuff we see that you really cannot use it describe the Sir DM/E.

So what gives?

You can dream up all kinds of crazy, dumb, believable, and “magical” scenarios but there is one rule: the math has to work out.

What if Universe (the known one) is orthogonal to the other(s)?? We will never “see” the other ones.

If so, QM describes everything pretty damn well why bother using Betty Crocker’s Cookbook to make Thai food?! See have access to Thai ingredients that BC didn’t when she wrote her cookbook!

Leave the #SirDM/ELivesMatter alone because the math will not work with accounting to balance what we see with what we cannot!!!

Meanwhile, Sir DM/E battles in a universe far, far away!!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Agreed, Racism is not based on any racial group and whites are as often victims of racist abuse as are black's, east asians, Hispanics and every other ethnic group.

Indeed Africa is RIFE with racism most often one black ethnic group against another black ethnic group, Asia is similar and in India it is a religious practice among the Hindu's whom practice it under the title of Caste System, China is very racist with the Han being one of the most racist ethnic groups in the world and believing themselves to be superior to all other races, similarly Korean's have a similar sentiment though the Japanese have mostly outgrown there's while at the same time holding onto there nationalist beliefs for the most part.

Racism though comes in many flavours, nationalist inspired racism, ethnic inspired racism and tribal (town, city) racism, though the term racism is not always applied.

In Britain you only have to have the wrong accent, Scot's who claim to be tolerant are quite racist against English which is daft and funny since both group's are basically one group with most of northern England having about as much Scot in them as the average resident of Caledonia and even the name Scot is misleading as it means Irish while true Caledonian's are a genetic minority today being the remnants of the Pict people's.

Southern England has huge amounts of French ancestry.

One thing you learn is that people are people are people, some folk's have darker skin, some have more square jaws, some have weird religions and customs and some smell because of the food they eat but we are all only one race, Human and in our diversity we should revel and thank God.

At it's core racism is rejection of what is different, territorial tribalism and jealousy and all the negative parts of humanity all rolled up into one nasty parcel.
Most people have some within them, anti racists are often those that realize it for the flaw it is and reject it from within themselves.

And for a man if an absolutely beautiful girl walk's past unless he is a true believer in his self lies notice how fast his racism fly's out the window and his lust replaces it.

But if that beautiful girl is of his ethnic group and she is with a man of another ethnic group notice how fast his racism riles up even irrationally, tribalism, mating instincts etc.

I think physicists are on the brink of a huge discovery. That mankind is actually in the midst of spaghettification, actively being pulled into a black hole. It is impossible for us to see it directly because we are in the point of no return, the "event horizon". Therefore our perspective of Space-time is heavily distorted. And this is why we struggle to see most things in outer space. And believed to be travelling 490,000 miles per hour... Yet go outside and it feels as though our solar system isn't going anywhere. We think everything we view in this reality is slowly being pulled apart, even the stars up above us (one day we will not be able to see anything in the cosmos). And yet... everything, person, matter, atoms of the greatest planetary bodies to the smallest of molecules is one, all is one. Everything is connected by dark matter, or is it... just a black hole?

Love this stuff.

Dark matter was introduced because of a math equation that, in the Standard Model, seemed to account for the all of the missing mass in galaxies.

IMO, a GUT would be beautiful. It would be succinct. it would be simple. The Standard Model is anything but, hence I never liked it. But it does approximate everything fairly correctly. The problem is although we have the math (mostly worked out, not 100%) we can't find the mass.

My belief is that we have gravity wrong.

Gravity is the lynchpin in calculating the mass of the galaxies. If we have gravity wrong, we can't calculate the entire mass properly.

Sure, gravity is something that is REALLY predictable at the human level. It's even fairly easy at the planetary level. This is the big equation for gravity:

F = Gm1m2/r2

It states that the gravitational pull between two objects is directly proportional to the mass, and INVERSELY proportional to the distance between those objects.

The problem is at the sub-atomic level those distances are so incredibly small (between atoms) that gravity just doesn't present itself as a strong force. So, at our level, gravity is inescapable. At the sub-atomic it's nearly invisible.

I would think it'd be interesting to try to prove a non-correlative relationship between gravity as a whole vs gravity as separate at the sub-atomic level.

In fact, it's so interesting, two scientists have already done it! (not kidding, I theorized this decades ago). They proved that at the sub-atomic level, particles do not respect symmetry.

Therefore, because they do not, it is highly likely that there is no symmetry of gravitational law between the macro and micro levels.

This is kind of a big deal.

So, count me on board with the whole "we have gravity wrong" crowd. Until we get it right, and we may never until we start looking at the sub-atomic and galactic levels of gravity with different equations, then we will never truly figure out the weight of the galaxy. Without the weight of the galaxy, we can't have a GUT.

Searching for dark matter through the fifth dimension So after getting paid billions to look for dark matter they figured out why they haven't found it.

It's in a different dimension
Now you just need to give them a few more millions for them to think about it.