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Originally posted by akilles
I'm not going to standby while Masonry claims to uphold certain morals worldwide, and there are so-called bad apples, who are supposed to IN NO WAY reflect on the rest.
Well, then, how can you have claimed to investigated their character?
How can you claim to have made these men better?
And we can only accuse them AFTER they are found guilty?
I am sorry, but that prevents nothing.
Look at Ilia Pavlov, 33 degree Freemason.
Originally posted by Ycon
sebatwerk, it's the freemasons that need to prove 'us' wrong.
It's your fraternity. If you found out that freemasons were a front for a satanic group that planned on enslaving the human race, wouldn't you want to find out before it's too late?
What most freemasons don't know is that they are the breeding ground for such people.
Because of your oath of secrecy the lower levels do not know what goes on in the upper levels. Am I correct?
So is it possible that you don't know what your getting into?
Now don't get me wrong, I believe most of the 33 levels of freemasons are basically good people,
which believe freemasons are doing good for man kind through their charitable ways.
The problem I have, is that it goes beyond 33 degrees and the masons are not the only group being deceived.
You don't know whats beyond the 33rd degree, infact I'm sure you believe that is the highest rank.
Now since the freemason are suppose to be chosen for their intelligence, intellect, money and influence in the community.
How can they not see the illuminatis control on them and other organizations?
What good is a genius, if he doesn't use his brain?
Originally posted by Novusordo
I know they dont rule the world but they run the communites, schools, banks, ect on a local and small scale.
As I see it, they are kind of like the "worker-bee's" of the Illuminati.
Theres lots of them to fill those seats of control albeit, rather insignificant seats of power and control but vital nontheless in the thorough running of the agenda.
Originally posted by HALLOWEEN78
I'm not a Mason.(Hopefully I will be reletively soon) I hold nothing against Masons. I also would believe something that much more if it were a Mason who said it. I first became interested in Freemasonry by reading the "debates" between the Masons and the anti Masons. After being here and reading the posts made by the Masons at this board, I knew that I wanted to join the fraternity.
sebatwerk, hopefully in a few years I shall be able to call you brother. Keep fighting the good fight!
Originally posted by Ycon
sebatwerk, it's the freemasons that need to prove 'us' wrong. It's your fraternity.
Originally posted by WyrdeOne
sebatwerk
You're defending an indefensible position. The reasons people don't like the masons range from the mundane to the ridiculous, but they all center around one aspect of the organization; the secrecy.
If you admit openly to perjury, obfuscation of the truth from jurys and judges, then you are no better than an organized crime syndicate, protecting its members.
You ask us to trust you? Why should we? Why should we trust an organization that protects its members from our laws, so that it can continue to indoctrinate people by making them strip naked and ride a farm animal?
You ride that goat all the way to hell man, ride, ride, ride.
Originally posted by senrak
Look Ycon,
I generally don't spend this much time on a post like yours, but you might as well be started off on the right foot. If you believe all the things you say, but are unwilling to provide evidence that what you belive is true, you have no credibility. Zilch.
If you want to discuss these items, do it intelligently, don't barge in here and call all the freemasons on board "ignorant" because they (the members of the Order) aren't smart enough to know what's going on. We'll gladly discuss anything with you, but when you make bogus claims and spread lies and refuse to back up what you say, you'll be a laughing stock like the trolls. If that's what you want, it's easily arranged....keep posting in your current style. If you want intelligent discussion, well....
PROVE IT
Regards
Originally posted by Ycon
senrak, we both know that absolute proof either way is not possible at this time. Times are changing and many people will start seeing more of the conspiracy puzzle pieces. Once you have them you need to figure out how they fit. The freemason piece of puzzle fits under the illuminati piece along with many other groups or organizations. This is not a lie, it's just how they fit. Those that don't see it are ignorant. I've read Ickes information along with many other sites and people, including ex freemasons and ex illuminati's. When you realize how much people are manipulated by those in control you will start to see how they're all connected. Again I'm sorry I can't provide absolute proof, just the same sites like Ickes, illuminati news, forbidden knowledge that have been posted many times before. As more people see them sites, they will be making simular posts as mine because those sites, especially Ickes site has more of the puzzle pieces put together. So make a laughing stock out of me, infact your too late supermods beat you to it.
Originally posted by akilles
As a child, I read 1984, The Prince (Machiavelli), Brave New World, and Sun Tzu's Art of War.
Before 15.
And I knew then that there were some things that people were sooner killed over, than let 'absolute proof' exist.
Some things just would NEVER be provable. But if you haven't read those books, why are you reading this post, you should have stopped at the titles of the books !
Originally posted by Ycon
senrak, we both know that absolute proof either way is not possible at this time. Times are changing and many people will start seeing more of the conspiracy puzzle pieces. Once you have them you need to figure out how they fit. The freemason piece of puzzle fits under the illuminati piece along with many other groups or organizations. This is not a lie, it's just how they fit.
Those that don't see it are ignorant.
I've read Ickes information along with many other sites and people,
including ex freemasons and ex illuminati's.
When you realize how much people are manipulated by those in control you will start to see how they're all connected.
Again I'm sorry I can't provide absolute proof,
just the same sites like Ickes, illuminati news, forbidden knowledge that have been posted many times before.
As more people see them sites, they will be making simular posts as mine
because those sites, especially Ickes site has more of the puzzle pieces put together.
So make a laughing stock out of me, infact your too late supermods beat you to it.
So you say that people who are anti-masons do not give reputable sources of researched info. The masonry is a fraternity within a fraternity. There is a masonry that we see that can be seen as good, but there is also the masonry that is so shrouded in the occult its ridiculous. One of your other brothers, Manly P. Hall states that" the masonry is an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of elect individuals. He goes on to say that it is necessary to establish these two seperate, yet interdependent orders, one visible and the other invisible. The visible brotherhood is a camraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves ethically, educationally, fraternally, patriotically, and humanitarally concerns. The invisible is a secret and most August fraternity whose members dedicated to service of a mysterious (arcannum arcandrum) a secret or mystery." Hall. TextLectures on Ancient Philosophy. THe masonry is a religion after all, after the order of the Satanic Mysteries, the equally Satanic Hermetic Philosophy, and Alchemy. Masons conceals its secrets from the visible brotherhood, no matter what their rank. Only the elect in the inner invisible society ever know the truth. The other brothers are spoon fed false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols. There is alot more and I am still researching a new book. I will have more info coming to you. 95% of masons are the visible masons who think that they know the truth. It is the 5% that you don't know that is deadly.
Originally posted by sebatwerk
I just realized something about what goes on between masons and you anti's on this forum:
All the masons on this forum have ever tried to do is point you anti's in the right directions in regards to your knowledge about Freemasonry. Rather than dispute your claims, we merely try to correct you because we truly do want you to know what the fraternity is really like. We have nothing to hide except our rituals and modes of recognition, but you guys already know those anyways.
Yet you guys don't believe a word coming out of our mouths... REAL masons with REAL, extensive and verifiable YEARS of experience and knowledge in the fraternity. Yet you guys are CONVINCED that you know more about the fraternity than us? And you think that you're qualified to talk about Freemasonry?
You guys have ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that we have anything to hide, and the only contradictions in what we say has come from YOUR posts, not ours. All of our answers to your posts and questions have always been completely unified and consistent, even among masons in separate countries. Yet you guys constantly contradict yourselves and each other with your accusations and claims.
We masons ALWAYS provide proof and verifiable evidence for ALL claims that we make. We provide links, books and page numbers, and as detailed information as we can find. I haven't seen a single post where a mason refuses to provide evidence, especially not when asked for it. But I have NEVER, NEVER NEVER NEVER seen one of you guys back up your claims with the SLIGHTEST SHRED of conclusive evidence, and even after repeatedly being asked to provide proof, you either ignore the thread or simply refuse to. WHO HAS SOMETHING TO HIDE? Not us.
In conclusion, we as masons really ARE trying to teach you guys about the real Freemasonry, seeing as how you guys are filled to the brim with misconceptions and half-truths. We will always answer most any question you have about our fraternity in as much detail as possible. And we are very clear as to the things we cannot talk about, and WHY we cannot talk about them. Everything else is fair game, so I suggest that you take advantage of our posts and learn the truth behind our fraternity, seeing as how you guys are so interested in it. It is important to us that you guys see that our fraternity really is something to be cherished and loved, or at the very least, tolerated.
Originally posted by dominic77
So you say that people who are anti-masons do not give reputable sources of researched info.
The masonry is a fraternity within a fraternity.
There is a masonry that we see that can be seen as good, but there is also the masonry that is so shrouded in the occult its ridiculous.
One of your other brothers, Manly P. Hall states that" the masonry is an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of elect individuals. He goes on to say that it is necessary to establish these two seperate, yet interdependent orders, one visible and the other invisible. The visible brotherhood is a camraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves ethically, educationally, fraternally, patriotically, and humanitarally concerns. The invisible is a secret and most August fraternity whose members dedicated to service of a mysterious (arcannum arcandrum) a secret or mystery." Hall. TextLectures on Ancient Philosophy.
THe masonry is a religion after all,
after the order of the Satanic Mysteries, the equally Satanic Hermetic Philosophy, and Alchemy.
Masons conceals its secrets from the visible brotherhood, no matter what their rank.
Only the elect in the inner invisible society ever know the truth.
The other brothers are spoon fed false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols.
There is alot more and I am still researching a new book.
I will have more info coming to you.
95% of masons are the visible masons who think that they know the truth.
It is the 5% that you don't know that is deadly.
Originally posted by dominic77
So you say that people who are anti-masons do not give reputable sources of researched info. The masonry is a fraternity within a fraternity. There is a masonry that we see that can be seen as good, but there is also the masonry that is so shrouded in the occult its ridiculous. One of your other brothers, Manly P. Hall states that" the masonry is an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of elect individuals. He goes on to say that it is necessary to establish these two seperate, yet interdependent orders, one visible and the other invisible. The visible brotherhood is a camraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves ethically, educationally, fraternally, patriotically, and humanitarally concerns. The invisible is a secret and most August fraternity whose members dedicated to service of a mysterious (arcannum arcandrum) a secret or mystery." Hall. TextLectures on Ancient Philosophy. THe masonry is a religion after all, after the order of the Satanic Mysteries, the equally Satanic Hermetic Philosophy, and Alchemy. Masons conceals its secrets from the visible brotherhood, no matter what their rank. Only the elect in the inner invisible society ever know the truth. The other brothers are spoon fed false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols. There is alot more and I am still researching a new book. I will have more info coming to you. 95% of masons are the visible masons who think that they know the truth. It is the 5% that you don't know that is deadly.
Originally posted by akilles
Freemasonry is a SEARCH.
Originally posted by akilles
For instance, why do men of stature and wealth receive the 33 degree more often than a good-intentioned Mason who gave to no charities, only beggars on the street, has been a member for 16 years, and given his all, but not being a rich man, could do no more?
Proof of the 33 degrees importance to Masons (the ones who REALLY undertake large projects, you know like founding a city)
*** Tyre, Lebanon: Home of King Hiram and Hiram Abiff, the Dynamic Duo of Masonic mythology.
*** Charleston, SC: The original site of Scottish Rite Masonry in the U.S.
*** Phoenix, AZ: The mythical phoenix commits suicide to procreate. This mythical bird is the real bird of New Atlantis, a.k.a. the U.S.A.; it presently masquerades as the queer bald eagle.
*** Warm Springs, GA: Site of Brother Franklin Delano Roosevelt's "sudden death" in April 1945.
Site of JFK's death, also on the 33rd Parallel.
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the two CLOSEST cities to the 33 parallel in Japan.
Oh and he has many sources listed on the bottom of the page
Here I would like to add a comment : Neither this Page nor this website is meant to be "Anti-Masonic". I do not hate the Masons. To the contrary, I have alot of respect for the ingeniousness of their "design". This is what makes it all the more challenging to expose. And challenges are what life is all about. I believe that if the Masons are going to "Push" humanity to it's potential, enough to put "strain" on the spirit of Humanity, by manipulating and influencing world events behind the scenes, then they at least deserve to held to the highest standard possible when it comes to "responsibility" for their actions. This means simply, that they deserve to be exposed and have the full "Light of Day" shined on them. This way, they will truly "HAVE TO" work towards the overall "Good", because if they don't, then it's the "Front Page of the Newspaper" for them!! Masonry itself is not what is bad, but it's means to an end, it's secretiveness and subversion and alot of it's members all contribute to the overall evil that emits from it as an organization. (All Masons are not bad people)
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