Can you really say Evolution has no Meaning ?

originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: Harte

How about you show me the Sun revolving around the Earth?

"1. All things revolve [if revolving] around the Observer.

2. Unless you go all the way back to the beginning [or say to Aristotle postulating 'The Unmoved Mover'], you have no fixed point of observation - Therefor saying the Earth is revolving around the Sun is just as wrong as saying the Sun is revolving aroung the Earth.

3. If you one day would like to travel intergalatically you must realize the shortest distance between two points is not a straight line and the speed of light is not an absolute constant."

- AlienView [Universal Space Alien Peoples Association]

Isn't that all we've ever had ?
A single point of observation ?

It's all guessing though, anyways, or isn't it ?

Isn't 'meaning' : also a guess ?

Dunno.
Just guessing...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TerraLiga


No it emphatically is not! 'Meaning' has nothing to do with theoretical or experimental science, or any of the hard sciences. Where do you get your crap from? Meaning only comes after the fact, when we humans try to understand the theory or results, and even then is only superficial. Only the religious put meaning before everything else.

If there's no meaning then there is no purpose to your opinion. Nothing you do or say matters, so if you truly believe that then stop wasting your precious final moments of existence before you return to eternal nothingness.

Or pursue meaning and realize there is hope in this intelligible world

There is a purpose and meaning to my response because it originated from a creator. Life, on the other hand, did not. It arose from a series of flukes and random events over millennia. It is quite evident that you can't comprehend this, or the undisputed evidence behind it.

What I do with my time is my own business, thank you.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TerraLiga


No it emphatically is not! 'Meaning' has nothing to do with theoretical or experimental science, or any of the hard sciences. Where do you get your crap from? Meaning only comes after the fact, when we humans try to understand the theory or results, and even then is only superficial. Only the religious put meaning before everything else.

If there's no meaning then there is no purpose to your opinion. Nothing you do or say matters, so if you truly believe that then stop wasting your precious final moments of existence before you return to eternal nothingness.

Or pursue meaning and realize there is hope in this intelligible world

originally posted by: Toothache

Humans give things meaning. There is nothing cancerous about not thinking life does not have a god given meaning. It actually makes this life exponentially more valuable. It's actually the opposite. It's more cancerous to believe a phony pipe dream and live for a fantasy based future instead of the real future of this planet.

A caterpillars purpose is to become a butterfly. It is tragic If you fool a caterpillar away from its purpose

It's tragic that the choice was taken away from them. What if the caterpillar wanted to be a chameleon, or a falcon? Poor little guys will never have a chance to be anything new or special or exciting, just a one way ticket to being a dead bug in some guy's collection.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

It's tragic that the choice was taken away from them. What if the caterpillar wanted to be a chameleon, or a falcon? Poor little guys will never have a chance to be anything new or special or exciting, just a one way ticket to being a dead bug in some guy's collection.

Yes you're purposefully obtuse we get it. This is the way you behave. King of separation.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlienView

And what does any of that have to do with evolution? You think there's some kind of observer effect that caused life to mutate and produce the human species?

MAYBE

About time Tzar you finally came up with something really worth thinking about.

At this stage of what some call Evolution, are we driving it and creating it as we observe it

Can we not only predict - but even further create the next stage of Evolution

Of course you must realize this would be a form of Intelligent Design

originally posted by: AlienView

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlienView

And what does any of that have to do with evolution? You think there's some kind of observer effect that caused life to mutate and produce the human species?

MAYBE

About time Tzar you finally came up with something really worth thinking about.

At this stage of what some call Evolution, are we driving it and creating it as we observe it

Can we not only predict - but even further create the next stage of Evolution

Of course you must realize this would be a form of Intelligent Design

No, no and no. Also trying to engineer the next species in the line of homo is probably a bad idea.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm

It's tragic that the choice was taken away from them. What if the caterpillar wanted to be a chameleon, or a falcon? Poor little guys will never have a chance to be anything new or special or exciting, just a one way ticket to being a dead bug in some guy's collection.

Yes you're purposefully obtuse we get it. This is the way you behave. King of separation.

One example of "poetic license" deserves another, explaining how blind biological imperative is not purpose. Purpose without choice is slavery, and evolution is not a choice.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Reef Rescue
Scientists race to help corals adapt to warming oceans through assisted evolution.

See it here:

www.pbs.org...

originally posted by: TzarChasm
explaining how blind biological imperative is not purpose.

A caterpillar liquefied itself inside a shell it makes, to allow itself to re-emerge as a creature with wings and fly away. This puts the ingenuity of the Wright Brothers to shame. To suppose there was no purposed design involved in a worm transforming into a flying creature is fantasy.

Purpose without choice is slavery, and evolution is not a choice.

Our purpose is to be free, not to be enslaved.

originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: TzarChasm

Reef Rescue
Scientists race to help corals adapt to warming oceans through assisted evolution.

See it here:

www.pbs.org...

Coral reefs aren't actively murdering each other in the streets. They also aren't polluting our ecosystem with fossil fuels while adamantly objecting to the science of climate change. They also aren't "accidentally" releasing modified viruses into the populace and engaging in violent protests over racial inequality. They also aren't responsible for inventing nuclear weapons and threatening world wars every 10 years.

But nice try comparing apples to piranha.

a reply to: cooperton


"Meaning" is a human construct which developed over evolutionary time. If you personally need a "meaning" for the universe, that's fine. That works for you. But your opinion is not absolute. There is room for other opinions. We know so little about the universe that it would be impossible to apply a "meaning" to it. It just is what it is.

From Psychology Today
www.psychologytoday.com...#:~:text=The%20universe%20is%20highly%20unlikely,to%20be% 20highly%20purpose%2Ddriven.&text=There%20are%20many%20meanings%20of,the%20universe%20being%20fundamentally%20random.

Our human sense of purpose is not dependent on the universe having a purpose

The universe is highly unlikely to have a purpose,but humans have evolved to be highly purpose-driven. Our human sense of purpose is neither derived from nor dependent on the universe having a purpose.

Once we get over our childlike wish to be told what “the” purpose and meaning of life is, we see that meaning is something that we make, not made for us. There are many meanings of life that we make for ourselves, and we discover that we have evolved the capacity to do so very proficiently despite the universe being fundamentally random. We accept that the responsibility to define purpose, meaning, and morality is all ours; it is not handed down to us from on high.

The meaning of life (and by extension evolution) is an individual pursuit, not a dictionary definition. There is no dictionary in the world that can tell you the "meaning" of evolution beyond its technical mechanisms and historical consequences. There is no moral or philosophical theme. It simply is.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton


"Meaning" is a human construct which developed over evolutionary time.

Provide a mechanism of how the concept of "meaning" could have evolved into our neural circuits by random chance mutations.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
The meaning of life (and by extension evolution) is an individual pursuit, not a dictionary definition. There is no dictionary in the world that can tell you the "meaning" of evolution beyond its technical mechanisms and historical consequences. There is no moral or philosophical theme. It simply is.

It's also a movie.



Harte

a reply to: Harte

I think you guys dont know the right question.

a reply to: cooperton

Exactly the same way likes and dislikes happen. You like plain food, I like spicy food. Your favorite color is red, mine is blue. It's entirely arbitrary and not dependent on a "system" or a genetic mutation. There may be a genetic link but it really doesn't matter. You like to ascribe "meaning" to the universe, I think the universe is just there with no particular meaning or purpose. Those are arbitrary opinions. And that's all it is.

originally posted by: Phantom423
a reply to: cooperton

Exactly the same way likes and dislikes happen. You like plain food, I like spicy food. Your favorite color is red, mine is blue. It's entirely arbitrary and not dependent on a "system" or a genetic mutation. There may be a genetic link but it really doesn't matter. You like to ascribe "meaning" to the universe, I think the universe is just there with no particular meaning or purpose. Those are arbitrary opinions. And that's all it is.

You're an organic supercomputer capable of language, logic, emotion, self-healing, replication, sensation, and so on. This is not an accident.

a reply to: cooperton

You're an organic supercomputer capable of language, logic, emotion, self-healing, replication, sensation, and so on. This is not an accident.

But 'they' say it is all an accident - A random series of events producing a living breathing cell that for some unknown reason divides, multiplies, and produces more and more complex life forms without any reason of meaning for this behavior.
- and again following the same 'magical' formula of random mutations evolves into a Human who suddenly becomes aware of his existence and who at first attributes this existence to a god or similar supernatural power - but then as random stupidity would have it, then decides that there was no reason or meaning and in fact he is the result of just plain dumb luck

Doesn't this sound even more stupid and magical than the theists belief in a higher power

You see if you want to follow their belief in so called Evolution - You have to realize that it can go in any direction
- And apparently ever since Darwin's theory became the new religion - It has been all down hill Devolution

originally posted by: AlienView

Doesn't this sound even more stupid and magical than the theists belief in a higher power

You see if you want to follow their belief in so called Evolution - You have to realize that it can go in any direction
- And apparently ever since Darwin's theory became the new religion - It has been all down hill Devolution

Yeah atheism ironically requires a multitude of miracles. To suppose intelligible constructs and organisms could come to be without intelligence is the least likely scenario imaginable. Notice how they are prevented from thinking intelligently because they cannot let go of the idea of unintelligent design (evolution).

a reply to: cooperton

An organic supercomputer? Well then I guess we have nothing to fear from AI! Fooled by randomness.

originally posted by: cooperton
A caterpillars purpose is to become a butterfly. It is tragic If you fool a caterpillar away from its purpose

By that logic, a kid's purpose is to become an adult. You aren't saying anything, you are just talking about the natural order of things.