Can you really say Evolution has no Meaning ?

originally posted by: AlienView
a reply to: cooperton

You're an organic supercomputer capable of language, logic, emotion, self-healing, replication, sensation, and so on. This is not an accident.

But 'they' say it is all an accident - A random series of events producing a living breathing cell that for some unknown reason divides, multiplies, and produces more and more complex life forms without any reason of meaning for this behavior.
- and again following the same 'magical' formula of random mutations evolves into a Human who suddenly becomes aware of his existence and who at first attributes this existence to a god or similar supernatural power - but then as random stupidity would have it, then decides that there was no reason or meaning and in fact he is the result of just plain dumb luck

Doesn't this sound even more stupid and magical than the theists belief in a higher power

You see if you want to follow their belief in so called Evolution - You have to realize that it can go in any direction
- And apparently ever since Darwin's theory became the new religion - It has been all down hill Devolution

It's not particularly "intelligent design" that is so ludicrous. As a creative writing exercise it's actually quite entertaining. For instance, hitch hikers guide to the galaxy. The ludicrous part happens when society wants to claim humans are made in the image of god. This is just another way of saying "humans are godly" and that's awfully arrogant and self righteous no matter how you want to rationalize it. Hijacking the science of evolution to confirm this ideology is just lazy and dishonest.

What would you two (Alien & Coop) do if proof could be provided that there are no deities and never have been? What would your lives mean to you?

For me, if there was some entity out there somewhere and it decided to come back and explain how it did everything and why, I would like to think I'd be OK with that. I'd have a lot of questions, but my life would carry on, although I'm pretty certain I wouldn't then start worshipping such a narcistic and cruel 'god'.

What about you two?

originally posted by: TerraLiga
What would you two (Alien & Coop) do if proof could be provided that there are no deities and never have been? What would your lives mean to you?

For me, if there was some entity out there somewhere and it decided to come back and explain how it did everything and why, I would like to think I'd be OK with that. I'd have a lot of questions, but my life would carry on, although I'm pretty certain I wouldn't then start worshipping such a narcistic and cruel 'god'.

What about you two?

The existence of some creator entity does not imply that this entity "did everything."

Could have stubbed his toe on a brane and caused a collision in 10 dimensions that resulted in the Big Bang, with all the rules of physics as a naturally occurring result.

Harte

originally posted by: TerraLiga
What would you two (Alien & Coop) do if proof could be provided that there are no deities and never have been? What would your lives mean to you?

If I was the product of randomness I wouldn't be self aware to make an assertion about my existence. Randomness cannot create something that is capable of logic and self-awareness.

For me, if there was some entity out there somewhere and it decided to come back and explain how it did everything and why, I would like to think I'd be OK with that.

Yeah if only God manifested in human form to plainly tell us the Truth of our existence and how we should behave.. but I'd only believe it if he did miracles, conquered death, and taught a philosophy rooted in hope and love.

I'd have a lot of questions, but my life would carry on, although I'm pretty certain I wouldn't then start worshipping such a narcistic and cruel 'god'.

You're missing the point. Instead you worship science which will not save you. You worship money which will not save you. You worship public opinion which is far from saving anyone. So go ahead tell me why the things you hold in high regard are greater than the founder of the Universe.

a reply to: cooperton

Instead you worship science which will not save you.

That's right. Everything that was born will die.

Science can't prevent that. But it has managed to delay it a bit, on average. And the best part is, science does not require worship. It isn't that petty.

a reply to: AlienView

Not only can I say evolution has no meaning. But I think that both God and evolution? Both! Are just stuff people created in there own heads. And does not exist beyond the confines of there skull. Its quite obvious that reality is just make believe, and agreed upon.

All physical matter, and even that other stuff the universe is made of and is about 90% of the universe, you know dark matter. What the universe is made off. Stuff we cant see, yet we know its there because calculations says something is there.

After all what is the biggest and most plentiful thing in space? Its not galaxies and planets and suns or anything made of matter that for sure. The biggest thing in space and most plentiful that its everywhere? Well? Its space. Which is why its called space.

Because they have no nucking clue what the hell planet earth and everything is all spinning on.

That stuff. And also the other maybe 10% of the universe, ie physical matter, planets, galaxies, countless stars and everything in between? All just the byproduct of the unseen matter in the universe. Which another .000000000000000000000001% would be the byproduct of the 10% which is the physical world.

So basically everything you see on planet earth? Is not even a fraction of a fraction of a fraction ad infinitum.

You know! All the crap we call planet earth and its inhabitants. So ya? Evolution or God? Ah may as well flip a coin to decide. At this point it may be like having a favorite football team. Makes you feel special for a bit that you belong to a group.

But is not acknowledged by the greater universe as having any meaning whatsoever at all in the grand scheme of things.

Were all stardust. Which means? Were all the by product of something much much larger then us. And by-product is a scientific way of saying? Crap, or excrement, a by product of something else. You know kind of like the stuff you flush down the toilet.

So that means that fight club was right. Your the all singing, all dancing crap of the world. Rejoice! Now doesnt that make you feel special? There is no god and there is no evolution. Your all just recycled matter experiencing a brief moment of self introspect.

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

Earth means dirt.

Today we will go back to the beginning - Just to sort things out.

[ If this is too complicated for the 'universe is dirt' crowd I apologize
- Like the ostrich you can keep your head in the dirt and be happy.]

The First Cell
It appears that life first emerged at least 3.8 billion years ago, approximately 750 million years after Earth was formed. How life originated and how the first cell came into being are matters of speculation, since these events cannot be reproduced in the laboratory..........
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

This is the first problem with Evolution - No one has yet proven how it began in the first place

But so called scientists have the audacity to claim Intelligent Design is based upon magic while advocating a theory, and that is all it is is a theory, of magical Evolution.

Don't misunderstand me, I like good science fiction, even have a philosophy of my own which I call 'Sciencefictionalism'
which asks for speculative theories, any and all that make sense to be considered.
- And of course Evolution is such a theory - It makes sense and is logical - But in final analysis it is nothing more than science fiction - It is not provable nor is it based upon a meaningful foundation.
Which is not to say that the science of Genetics is in question - Except when you try to say it is directly related to the Evolution fantasy.

So I will answer my own original question:

Can you really say Evolution has no Meaning ?

The answer is YES

So apparently, after this long debate, we have some synthesis
- The Evolutionists and Intelligent Designers can agree:

Evolution has no meaning !!!

a reply to: AlienView

No matter where you go (or how you got there), there you are.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: AlienView

No matter where you go (or how you got there), there you are.

Yes, that is from "the World's Foremost Authority?" Professor Irwin Corey - A great philosopher who was so misunderstood that he had to make a living as a comedian.

He also said:

"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going"

Irwin Corey


Apparently there is some sign of evolution after all - Just forget about the meaning

a reply to: AlienView

Yes, that is from "the World's Foremost Authority?" Professor Irwin Corey - A great philosopher who was so misunderstood that he had to make a living as a comedian.

Incorrect.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TerraLiga
What would you two (Alien & Coop) do if proof could be provided that there are no deities and never have been? What would your lives mean to you?

If I was the product of randomness I wouldn't be self aware to make an assertion about my existence. Randomness cannot create something that is capable of logic and self-awareness.

For me, if there was some entity out there somewhere and it decided to come back and explain how it did everything and why, I would like to think I'd be OK with that.

Yeah if only God manifested in human form to plainly tell us the Truth of our existence and how we should behave.. but I'd only believe it if he did miracles, conquered death, and taught a philosophy rooted in hope and love.

I'd have a lot of questions, but my life would carry on, although I'm pretty certain I wouldn't then start worshipping such a narcistic and cruel 'god'.

You're missing the point. Instead you worship science which will not save you. You worship money which will not save you. You worship public opinion which is far from saving anyone. So go ahead tell me why the things you hold in high regard are greater than the founder of the Universe.

I am the product of speciation, evolution and adaptation, rooted in the experience and learning of my ancestors. Because you can't begin to imagine the vast amount of time, successes and failures of all the flora and fauna on this planet does not mean that you and your ilk have to find a more comfortable explanation to make you feel valuable and worthy to exist.

There is no evidence at all for any deities to have existed, let alone shape the universe or any life in it. In fact, the contrary has more evidence to support it.

I do not worship anything at all. I respect the method that science works under because it is completely accountable and open to rigorous cross-examination to absolutely anyone to cares to dispute what it claims and can provide the evidence to support their counter-claim.

You've made some gross assumptions about me, which tells more about you than it does me

originally posted by: TerraLiga
Because you can't begin to imagine the vast amount of time, successes and failures of all the flora and fauna on this planet does not mean that you and your ilk have to find a more comfortable explanation to make you feel valuable and worthy to exist.

No I studied neural circuits and they could not come to be by random chance mutations. Our nervous system if stretched out on the neuronal level would be 90,000 miles long. That means it could wrap around the earth almost 4 times. To organize these neurons into a functioning organic computer capable of logic, love, self-repair, homeostasis, and so on, is absolutely not plausible by random chance.

Even with infinite amount of time, an impossible task cannot happen. And that's JUST the neurons. There's also about 10x more supporting cells in the brain that help facilitate proper neuronal function. These are organized in precise ways to allow you to have a seamless consciousness. It's not an accident.

originally posted by: Phage

That's right. Everything that was born will die.

Science can't prevent that. But it has managed to delay it a bit, on average. And the best part is, science does not require worship. It isn't that petty.

Worship just means to acknowledge worth. So you are actually worshipping science. More years of life drugged up on a ventilator. Wonderful.

a reply to: cooperton

No I studied neural circuits and they could not come to be by random chance mutations.

Where's the paper you wrote describing the experiments which proved your hypothesis? Where's the evidence? Once again, you have none. You don't understand neural circuits any more than you understand evolution.
Define a random chance mutation.

a reply to: cooperton

No I studied neural circuits and they could not come to be by random chance mutations. Our nervous system if stretched out on the neuronal level would be 90,000 miles long. That means it could wrap around the earth almost 4 times. To organize these neurons into a functioning organic computer capable of logic, love, self-repair, homeostasis, and so on, is absolutely not plausible by random chance.

Please cite a research paper or textbook that describes neural network development by random chance. Thanks

originally posted by: Phantom423

Where's the paper you wrote describing the experiments which proved your hypothesis? Where's the evidence? Once again, you have none. You don't understand neural circuits any more than you understand evolution.
Define a random chance mutation.

Not my burden to prove a negative. To think random gene mutations can create new conscious functions by altering neural matter in a beneficial way is absolutely absurd though. The reason being that each grey matter region must be connected to other regions, so its not just neuronal bodies but also proper connections as well. These connections need support cells to ensure proper functioning, otherwise you get seizures or other unwanted neuronal firing (or underfiring).

The organizing factors for neuronal migration during development is enough to boggle the mind of any objective scientist. Exactly how a gene mutation could possibly benefit or improve this spatio-temporal development is absolutely unfounded.

a reply to: cooperton

To think random gene mutations can create new conscious functions by altering neural matter in a beneficial way is absolutely absurd though.

Whoever said that besides you???

a reply to: cooperton

Exactly how a gene mutation could possibly benefit or improve this spatio-temporal development is absolutely unfounded.

Well??? Who else has made a statement like this? Who else agrees with your hypothesis? Any proof?
Still waiting...................

originally posted by: Phantom423

Well??? Who else has made a statement like this? Who else agrees with your hypothesis? Any proof?
Still waiting...................

Is your entire belief system based on appeals to authority? Go and try to find an example of a gene mutation causing beneficial novel functions to emerge in neurological development. It's simply not how genes work in relation to developing neural tissues. You are stuck in the 19th century material reductionist mindset.

If you didn't resort to appealing to authority, and began to think on your own, there would be a chance to see the objective impossibility of 100,000,000,000 neurons assembling in a functional order to generate consciousness by random chance mutation

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Phantom423

Well??? Who else has made a statement like this? Who else agrees with your hypothesis? Any proof?
Still waiting...................

Is your entire belief system based on appeals to authority? Go and try to find an example of a gene mutation causing beneficial novel functions to emerge in neurological development. It's simply not how genes work in relation to developing neural tissues. You are stuck in the 19th century material reductionist mindset.

If you didn't resort to appealing to authority, and began to think on your own, there would be a chance to see the objective inpossibility of 100,000,000,000 neurons assembling in a functional order by random chance mutation

Wow your confused he made no apeal to authority. He simply asked for proof of your claim which appears you have none. Because if you did you would provide evidence since you cant you are mearly offering an opinion. And well even your opinion lacks credibility because you show a lack of understanding on science.