Final Conclusions Regarding UFOs

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
I'm looking at starting a new project.

If you wish to ask or discuss (disagree or whatever) anything 'KPB'ish' now's your chance.

I'm about to step back from ATS again, for a while, or permanently.

Kev

would very much hate to see you go, theres tons youve made me think over the last years of my experiences and why they seem to be so common place with me, to the point my friends and family make comments.

Youve provided a great service to ATS, thank you

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Huh?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
I'm looking at starting a new project.

If you wish to ask or discuss (disagree or whatever) anything 'KPB'ish' now's your chance.

I'm about to step back from ATS again, for a while, or permanently.

Kev

would very much hate to see you go, theres tons youve made me think over the last years of my experiences and why they seem to be so common place with me, to the point my friends and family make comments.

Youve provided a great service to ATS, thank you

Thanks for that.

I'm having eye issues that impacts my ability to work. I've made
some progress on that issue, so I'm doing a bit more 'recreational'
writing these days.

But what I notice is that I seem to scare people? I guess that I
can't blame them.. when I latch onto a subject it's like a
lamphrey eel.. and that's why I've had a lot of success in life,
but it does cause blowback.

I don't wish to be an ass, but i'm certain I come across that
way sometimes.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Oh hi! Did see you in the 'unconscious collective' thread and loved how you seemed to have arrived too at the 'agency' stepping stone.
Don't disappear again!

Is there an update to the 'final conclusions' curious minds need to know?
I admit I got distracted a little by current events, so my own progress was... embarrassingly small. Maybe something a little philosophical how the consciousness and the universe are unified through agency, but it's more mental masturbation than anything worthwhile.

Now we might find out the real reason Ufos are here when they start snatching those WMDs out of the air soon.

Then we'll all be cheering as we see videos of the glorious aliens saving us from ourselves.

a reply to: peaceinoutz

Cheering? I doubt that would be the proper reaction to our miserable fail.
'We are too dumb and insane! We can't take care of ourselves and our planet! Yippie!'
Does that sound like an achievement to you?

a reply to: Peeple

Always nice to hear from you.

Well here's the thing on when I post on ATS:

it's not nearly so straightforward as some might imagine.

I post for any of a dozen different reasons.. sometimes I'll
come back to post on ATS for a specific person, who might
not even know I"m doing it for them. I'll post to everyone
but them, won't necessarily talk to them at all.

Other times, I'll find myself posting something, without
planning to do at all.. for example that 'macaroni and
cheese in the microwave' comment wasn't my usual self
at all..

I'm a mana personlaity to quite a degree.

In fact I personally have no goal or agenda when I post
on ATS. It's a bit hard to explain.

But all that said, I always like good conversation from
smart and well-informed people.

I think i'l lbe a bit more "how can I help someone progress
from their own stuck point of view" and less actually
posting 'for myself'. I don't plan on posting 'for myself"
again, as of this time anyway.

Sorry if that wasn't a straight answer.

Kev

a reply to: Peeple

Actally Peeps, there is something I would like to say. I'd rather have posted
it in that other thread, but I don't want to crap all over it.. I'm hoping the
OP there will develop the thread and not let me derial it.

Here's the thing about human personality.. you know this... but i'm reminding
others..

I've met people who had perfect parents and a stress-free life, free college,
infinite family support, etc, and a lot of folks like that that I have met,
bore me completley. I mean, I'm happy for them.. but I seldom see such
folks become 'something'. Oh sure, some might become famous doctors
or lawyers or whatever.. but until one of them has a loved one die or
something, they don't get to experience a 'dark night of the soul' and get
some real 'texture' to their consciousness.

Maybe I"m not being fair. I don''t know.

But show me someome tormented inside, all scarred up..and you'll often
see an artist or a genius yearning to be let out, or at least on fire to
do something.. often out of the box.

Human consciousness is an evolved response to stress from the environment..

Lots of stress might make a genius or a monster.

Not much stress... and well... not necessarily not so much.

The MUFON Omega study and "The Trickster and the Paranormal" and other
sources show that soemthing has to 'break inside' for something amazing to
become possible.

Nearly every 'mystic' ever born seems to have been deeply tormented. A lot of
geniuses too (I mean, look at Tesla for example).

A 'barrier' has to be broken in some manner.

Mystics and Shamans know this.. Yoga masters of some schools know this..
they break themselves on purpose.

'UFOs' and the 'supernatural' also break people..

It's all part of the same system..

Anyway..

So many people want to 'figure out the phenomenon' with some sort
of logic.

No it's not Wednesday or Sideral time from JV or this or that or this
or that.

Everyone looks at the contents of the little red wagon, but never
the little read wagon.

The breaking is the point, not whether it's a 'binary download'
or the Virgin Mary or a 'tic tac'.

Humans are more dead than alive in so many ways.. so crapped up
with their insane cutlures and religions and the absolute need for
certainty that makes the world so toxic.

The question still is... at which layer (s) of agency does this pressure
to break the suffocating human culture toxin originate?

I don't believe, that in general, that question will be known, until
humans learn to love themselves and each other and the world
a bit more.. become less insane.. and if that doens't happen..
(it won't).. then the only future for them is either extinction,
or the digital control bolt in thier brains.

Much more specific could be said.. I'll leave it there for now.

Kev

Saw this pop up in a recent thread. Sincerely hope there is no chance now if a ufo area simply going away. Not when the topic is finally so widely acknowledged and accepted. Haven't read through the whole massive thread though. Just was concerned of possibilities of initial statements.

It's rather humorous.

In manner of speaking, the least important part of our worries about
'UFOs and aliens' is the "UFOs and aliens part'.

Consciousness is the trickster.

'Consciousness' evolves due to pressure from the world, AND from
pressure from within our bodies BOTH.

Our bodies and brains are part of the same ecosystem with the
symbols floating around our cultures.

To early man, everyting was 'spiritual'.

In other words, they were closer to being 'mana personalities'
than most people are these days.

Yes, thats' why they 'heard the gods' (which symbol they heard
was largely irrelevant).

We have gone numb.

Not much can make us feel anymore.

The sense is that not much hope can come from humans...
so part of us reaches for the personal and global
'mana personality'.

Do these connections actually exist? Can we possibly
connect with each other or 'aliens/spirits'?

It almost doesn't manner.

The pressure, the accuuated scream of humanity
will find a way..

'the supernatural' is one way for such connectivity,
but human organic evolution and concurrent
sociological evolution takes much time,

to find such a way 'with nature'.

It's quicker to invent an internet and to plug
everyone into it.

I'ts the 'dark side of the force'.

The most common one too.

Anyway.. I hope that someone followed that.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't think such a thing as 'untormented' soul exists. I've known a bunch of people who could be considered care-free but just have different struggles, extremely high expectations they got to deal with, jealousy, lack of appreciation, even emptyness sometimes, or if it is just the difficulties of finding yourself and your place in this world can be traumatic.
On the other hand you can also have some people who get every # imaginable thrown at them and just get up, dust off and keep walking on sunshine. Not as often, because the human per se finds something to suffer eventually.
But I get that a certain breaking point is the ultimate test of personality, which is imho why the phenomenon creates an artificial one if needed.

The need to figure it out with logic is because that's the only way to make a deeply subjective experience objectively accessible. I mean sure we can all tell eachother our anecdotes but they're useless as long as nobody breaks it down in cross-referenceable points we can compare and 'measure'.

I'd be careful with that 'the ancients heard the gods' because they were mistaken and wrong on a lot of occasions, in a way I guess it's a lot easier to hear them now, because we've accumulated a lot more knowledge to tell what's nature, what's cause and reaction etc to pin down the real high strangeness events. The #ed up perfectly timed synchronicities and all of that.
The problem just is the approach to the individual, on the one hand in our society the individual is everything, on the other hand the deviant individual is nothing.
That's the prison we've created the toxicity that's going to kill us.

a reply to: Peeple

Ah!

Maybe I wasn't clear!

the ancients heard the gods'

We have plenty of people these days who think that they
hear the gods.. 'binary downloaders', 'channelers', 'experiencers'.

Are they hearing gods?

Or are the becoming 'mana personalities' and are now hearing
other parts of their own minds?

But if so, what does that mean?

It's rather like this:

equivalence principle, fundamental law of physics that states that gravitational and inertial forces are of a similar nature and often indistinguishable.

How does one tell what is self-generated, or generated due to some external
stimulus?

If you study this, then even some billion year old alien or 'god' has the same
issue..

once the 'bits' are present in your system processor, there are bits in your system
processor. Due to how quantum uncertainty works, you can't even say with any
confidence (EVER) where a particular thought came from.

This is how awareness works (in part).

So here's a fun one..

I know there's all this concern about what's 'real' and what's an illusion
or simulation.

It goes back to the old idealists (things in and of themselves) vs phenonemon.
for example and before that.

So the fun question for me is:

"Does anything of necessity have to be 'real'?

One would think that there might be some cosmic
'movie projector' and both 'real' and 'unreal' are
stamped out.

Wouldn't both 'real' and 'unreal' be much the same
thing in such a scenario?

And so it is here, in this world.

Matter looks solid, but is mostly empty (real? unreal?).

So at the subatomic level.. particle of wave? (real? unreal?)

At the quantum level -- qunatum waveforms in hilbert space..
is the wave function and hilbert space 'real' or just a math
representation (real? unreal?)

So the quantum fields that pervade the universe... (real? unreal?)

Is the TOE (theory of everything) background dependent (depends
on general relativity or some such?) or is it background independent?
(the fields are the 'web' that composes 'space' or 'space/time' but
there is nothing behind it (real? unreadl)

Let's not get into awareness/consciosuenss that's a whole other thing
(or is it?) (real? unreal?).

Claiming that 'we are real' but the 'aliens are all in our head' ..
(real? unreal?)

maybe we are the simulation?

Maybe we both are the simulation?

Would it matter?

We call the 'base system' 'real'. And assume that everyting
comes from that.. both the real and the unreal.

But would the sum total of all 'simulations' simply be the
mathimatical space represented by Hilbert space in QM?

Then per something like many worlds, it would not be
correct to say which is 'real' or 'not real'.

Just a few simple thoughts.. but it's why I cannot get all
hungup on 'us being real'. It's intellectual bias at best.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I really had to think about that and can't find a clear cut answer, because to me it's obvious 'the phenomenon' can control the narrative in our head, our body, our environment including time, but does it only to initiate contact, after that we're left grasping straws on our own pretty much.
Communication is possible but difficult, because our bias, wishful thinking and subconsciousness get in the way.
Prime example Uri Geller and Andrija Puharich. Which is where I made the connection to your musings about real, they lost 'real' because they lost 'true', because what they wanted got in the way of what the phenomenon can provide. There's just no ship-fleet of spacebrothers in the equation.
The crux of the matter (pun intended) is exactly that it isn't real in a materialistic sense. But from a pan-consciousness view or the ancient Plato ideas one could probably argue it's even more real than us. More pure in an information based universe, than us halflings (half matter half consciousness).
But again because of our subjective experience we have a tendency to turn 'real' aka 'true' into 'false' because we can't say a single sentence about something not-material without immediately loading a plethora of bias/myth on to it.
And that's the issue because it isn't spacebrothers, fairies, gods, angels, demons, unicorns.... it has been called that but it is not it.
That's the trickster in our head you we're talking about. We take a subjective real experience and we try to convey it to others and in that process from expression to reception it loses the 'real'-ness by becoming untrue in the mental cross-references we automatically make.

Logic is the only tool that can help us overcome that problem. Wouldn't you agree? A new set of symbols, which is I believe what JV tried when using phenomenon as descriptor.

a reply to: Peeple

Peeps, I could cry.

You are one of the people I always come back to ATS for.

You got it 100%!

100%!

I really had to think about that and can't find a clear cut answer, because to me it's obvious 'the phenomenon' can control the narrative in our head, our body, our environment including time, but does it only to initiate contact, after that we're left grasping straws on our own pretty much.

There's 'local phenomenon' and more 'universal phenomenon'.

Now, the more 'local' phenomenon (home grown! literally) has one
major goal.

To get it's 'hooks into us, and as you say, once it does that, it tends to
be done with us. (it got what it wanted, it goes "wham, bang, thank
you maam" and that's it.

IT MAINLY DOES PARTY TRICKS TO DO THE FIRST CONTACT,

the 'local phenomenon' still does need to keep contact with our
neurons in our visceral and enteric nervous systems, to keep
from fading away and to keep intelligent.

It's like Toxoplasmosis.

It needs to keep our crazed desires to understand the universe,
'ufos', 'spirituality', etc, running

to get what it wants for it's lifecycle.

I can't tell you the personal cost I have had to pay, to be able
to write thiese words.

I must go for a bit.. should be back later today.

Now... don't go all 'its evil it's evil! kill it!"
please don't do that..

the 'local phenomenon' is US. It needs love, to remove
all the snarls,

It's our accumulated fear, pain and ignorance as a species..
until it's healed, we can't be either.

Kev

Sometimes my 'head in the clouds' personality does not explain things
in the simplest possible manner. That's a task I'm always working on.

So, using the local/universal phenomenon model (let's ignore the
unviersal portion for now),

really what it comes down to?

People from the very beginning, once they realized death was a
thing,

started unconsciously to use that massive brain of theirs, one of
the most amazing 'computers' in the entire unvierse,

and that unconscious self started tacking the issue of how to
avoid death.

So the attempt to generate a coherent energy matrix to cheat
death..

Thus the human mental defect that 'they have souls, that angels
came first, mistaken ideas about god.. all that stuff...

At times the 'newbie coherent energy matrixes' are in
complete denail about needing their initial human, and
any other humans they can get their probes into,

Often they fancy themselves 'angels' or sentient star ships,
etc.

That's why they get angry when someone tries
to 'name them' (call bull# on them).

They want you to play along... always enticing you to keep
that hunger going (the hunger for THEM), but never letting
you 'catch them', as then you'd know the truth.

This is just one third of the picture.. there's the universal
portion to consider.. and there's why physical effects can
occur.. those are the three portions.

I'd just like to focus on the 'easy portion' for now.

So,

"The phenomenon is the unconscious human effort to cheat death".

there you go.

Kev

a reply to: Peeple

Logic is the only tool that can help us overcome that problem. Wouldn't you agree? A new set of symbols, which is I believe what JV tried when using phenomenon as descriptor.

Yes, he tried that. And he wound up creating a NEW Staypuft Marshmallow man.

He never understood what the phenomenon was.

Now mind you, saying 'we don't know' is an excellent start... I didn't know
what it was at first either.. that's why I had to do many experiments with
it,

as it was like a puppy with me.. had always been a part of my life..
sometmes a happy puppy, somtimes a scary puppy.. but i could look the
little dickens in the face and see that it didn't have one.

I would very much like to take this 'theory' out of the realm of religion,
and turn it over to science.. but there's a problem there..

In a manner of speaking, our Universe is a giant computer with it's own
'tulpa' (software wishing to be sentient).

Wouldn't surprise me if some of the constants of nature were to change
or something..

Researching this stuff from a neutral, non-observer persepctive is nearly
impossible, as it's doing home chemistry experiments on US.

Logic is indeed a wonderful thing..

But it's like trying to be logical to your wife (or husband).

If you want to understand your mate.. logic will only get
you so far...

We need to make peace with Us, learn to be kind, learn
to give up our desire to cheat death, and grow up..
then using logic AND 'intuition' thoroughly vetted by
logic..

then yes.. we could join the others who came before us.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'm not sure if I fully understood, 1/3 local 2./3 universal, what's the 3./3 us? Aren't we the local? Or better the subconsciousness is the local? Aren't two of them more like relais stations for the universal? If the 3./3 is

and there's why physical effects can
occur..

Since it was trendy at some point to use extra-dimensional for the phenomenon I spent some time trying to figure out what that means and found 'degree of freedom'. To some that means additional axis on which to move, to me it would seem the answer is actually less, as in not bound by locality or time, kind of like a dimensional singularity where every place and every time is easily accessible.
What remains is the story. The story is the development, the sequence of events.
And I wouldn't go

Now... don't go all 'its evil it's evil! kill it!"
please don't do that..

Because I have a very personal connection with it too. But I actually think there's no real ill intent the problem really is communication.
Like in your relationship metaphor, a bit like an intuitive partner maybe feels the trauma before it's realised by the significant other.

...maybe?

a reply to: Peeple

Well here's the thing;

unless I'm wrong (could certainly be),

'consciousness' is layered on 'awareness'
through 'substance', and at several juncture
points 'temporary beings' begin to think that
they are independely alive of the whole thing.

'we' are one such juncture point.
the 'phenomenon' is another such juncture point.
and there's a third one of which I'm very much aware,
but do not wish to discuss much.

and of course 'Patient zero'.. in reality.. I have a few
things to say about 'patient zero' but it's best not
to discuss.

Then, there's the ACTUAL 'alien mindscape' out there.

It's best to just keep it 'real' and focus on the very
lowest levels in my view.. it would be a miracle
to even make 'objective' progress on that.

Objctive barely exists.. it's more a consensus of
shared ignorance.. but science is all we've got..
that and self-honesty and 'creative intuition'.

Better to look like a loon and try, while
retaining full-self honesty and no clinging
to results.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But what you were saying was basically that we're one 'evolutionary' level before the local aspect of the phenomenon?
I call that 'middle-management' but I agree that's what we first should stick to. It's also making it easier to discuss, because it postpones the very, very religious question if there's a bigger intelligence of the 'cosmos'.
That used to mean 'order' isn't that funny? (I got that from C.Meyers? book athens, which is such a weird musings on the human condition kind of intellectual synchronicity moment currently. To the question of how the Greeks developed their democracy in the first few chapters.)