The war between Russians and reptilians in the North in 1582

Before you twist your finger at my temple and call me an idiot or a conspiracy theorist, dear ATS forum members, please listen to my arguments.

In the Russian archives there is an ancient document, an artifact, called "The Second Novgorod Archival Chronicle". He describes the events of the 16th century that took place in the Russian northern cities of Veliky Novgorod and Pskov. The chronicle is written in the old Russian language and I will try to translate it into modern English.

"In the summer of 7090 (according to the Julian calendar from the creation of the world - my notes) crocodiles came out of the Great River, blocked the waterway and bit many people. People were horrified and prayed to God all over the earth. Later, some crocodiles fled back into the river, while others were exterminated state archers ".



Historical science simply does not know how to relate to this document: there is too little additional information. It is also known that in pagan times the inhabitants of these places had a cult of a certain Lizard ... But that's all.

Just in case, I clarify: no material evidence of the existence of "crocodiles" in the Pskov and Novgorod lakes (the word itself was familiar to Russians at that time) was not found. Not the slightest bone, not a tail scale, not a missing tooth. Nothing at all. Which automatically makes you strongly doubt the written evidence of their existence. And in general - scientists firmly say that large reptiles cannot live in such cold regions.

But some large amphibians may well. For example, the Chinese gigantic salamander, up to 180 cm in length, lives in cool mountain waters.

Perhaps Sigismund Herberstein and Jerome Horsey had such animals in mind. Herberstein described some "givoites" - either reptiles or amphibians, who were worshiped and fed by some Russians back in his time (body length - up to 70 cm), and Horsey - that he saw the corpse of a "crocodile-snake" people for some reason poked with spears, after which the corpse began to exude such a stench that the Englishman was already sick.

Perhaps some endemic species of large salamanders lived in the Velikaya River, which in 1582, for some reason, decided to crawl ashore and try to attack people. Either from hunger, or from a sharp climate change, or for some other reason. But people took action, and since then there are no "crocodiles" in the Great River.

By the way, this is far from the only mention of reptilians and crocodiles in Russia. A lot of them. I will only mention the book "Crocodiles on the Volga" published in 1768



Thank you for your feedback.

Whether axiomatic, elements true or completely whacky this is the sort of stuff I came here for and we are lucky to have the perspective an dknowledge of someone from your part of the world.

Older English text refer to the 'Wurms' which are also interpreted as dragons - large, fierce reptillians whom the knights slain.

Thanks for sharing, quite interesting indeed.

Well, lizards of various kinds are found across all continents, apparently.
There's nothing implausible about this story, as long as we don't get too legalistic about modern species labels.

a reply to: IAMALLYETALLIAM

As far as I know, a dragon is depicted on the coat of arms of Wales. Our story is sometimes unexpected and exciting)))

I've just remembered from the news stories of my youth; wasn't there a Russian satirical magazine called "Krokodil"?

originally posted by: DISRAELI
I've just remembered from the news stories of my youth; wasn't there a Russian satirical magazine called "Krokodil"?

Yes, there was such a satirical magazine. It came out for about 70 years))

a reply to: RussianTroll

Decomposing sturgeon can look crocodilian.

a reply to: RussianTroll

It is indeed on our national flag and used everywhere

Thats my lunchtime read sorted.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Welsh Dragon

I think first we need to find an accurate range map of crocodilians historically. Then look at the trade routes between those regions. Chinese alligators, African crocodiles. Trade would be my first guess.

originally posted by: 35Foxtrot
a reply to: RussianTroll

Decomposing sturgeon can look crocodilian.

Whilst this is true, Russian rivers used to be chock full of sturgeon, so you would expect locals to know what decomposed sturgeon looks like.

Definititely a weird thread and tale RT, so thanks for sharing. I am wondering if some of the local tribes in the area were still part of the Cult of Crocodiles, so were identified as Crocs?

originally posted by: 35Foxtrot
a reply to: RussianTroll

Decomposing sturgeon can look crocodilian.

Sturgeon is too small a fish. Here the beluga reaches a weight of over a ton.

a reply to: Cymru

And how many films were shot about good dragons))))

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
I think first we need to find an accurate range map of crocodilians historically. Then look at the trade routes between those regions. Chinese alligators, African crocodiles. Trade would be my first guess.

For crocodiles, the rivers and lakes of northern Russia are very cold. Reptiles cannot live there.

a reply to: Cymru

....and best looking flag out there IMHO

Sunny Welsh Rainbows
Jane

Interesting bit of history. Whatever happened, -something- gave rise to that account. And that "something" was something interesting happening in northern Russia in those times.

Cheers

a reply to: RussianTroll

Sturgeon is too small a fish. Here the beluga reaches a weight of over a ton.

beluga is a species of sturgeon,



Beluga Sturgeon

double post

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
I think first we need to find an accurate range map of crocodilians historically. Then look at the trade routes between those regions. Chinese alligators, African crocodiles. Trade would be my first guess.

I think the real controlling factor is not the range of a species but the range of the label. The "crocodile" of the Middle Ages would not be as tightly defined as the crocodile of modern science.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: TheAlleghenyGentleman
I think first we need to find an accurate range map of crocodilians historically. Then look at the trade routes between those regions. Chinese alligators, African crocodiles. Trade would be my first guess.

I think the real controlling factor is not the range of a species but the range of the label. The "crocodile" of the Middle Ages would not be as tightly defined as the crocodile of modern science.

Let's dream up, my friend))

Crocodiles from Florida in the USA carry the ideals of freedom, democracy, tolerance, gender diversity (I don't know if there are LGBT crocodiles among the crocodiles). But Putin's crocodiles from Russia are aggressive, dictatorial, homophobic creatures who are just waiting to interfere in all Western elections and poison everyone with Novichok))))

Of course I'm kidding)))

a reply to: DISRAELI

I wasnt suggesting that the crocodilian was to amble to the north but was transported for a season


The northern part of the volga river can reach up to 68 degrees F in summer, warm enough for a crocodilian to splash around in for a few weeks before the locals find them.