Police officers across the nation. What the hell is wrong with some of you ?

a reply to: Fallingdown

Yes, when I heard about it, I had the same thought as you: Why? Why? Why??? And here comes the protesting and rioting again...

And, yes, I also agree that no officer should be trying to kill someone that is not an immediate threat to the life of the officer or other people.

IMMEDIATE THREAT.

But that's no longer the type of policing we have in too many places, and there are too many police trained to shoot first and ask questions later because the officer wants to go home that night...

The guy was passed out in his car, not a threat to anyone until the officers provoked a confrontation and conflict. If they can't just leave him there, pay a taxi $20 to take him home. Problem solved. No reason for him to be dead now.

The problem is that these days, with "KIllology" and warrior-style training, ONLY blue lives matter to too many police officers (and their apologists).

Speaking of community policing, we could always learn a thing or two from the boys in blue in New Zealand. Always blow on the pie - its a matter of public safety

originally posted by: seedofchucky
a reply to: GentrySociety
LOL i been saying that

don't break the law , don't resist , don't run , don't take cops gun etc...

But apparently these liberal nuts seem to ignore that basic fact and focus on the after the fact....

You don't walk into a lions den , get mauled and start trying to fix the lion instead of yourself for walking in there in the first place lol

Good points and I respect the police. It's also true that people that are habitual law-breakers hate the cops.

At the same time, while generally the police are well-mannered (the PD in my town included), there are a few cops out there who need more training in regards to a more polite and respectful interaction with the general population. In my experience I've had to deal with only one such cop, which ignored my precarious condition I was in and seemed to enjoy it. The police bias is a problem too, if you've been arrested before, the chances are high that you'll be deemed guilty before the facts are straightened out. Stereotypes function non-stop!

I remember a real life example. In NYC a few years ago there was a guy in the subway causing some trouble. There happened to be in the same subway car four tourist swedish cops and they very politely were able to subdue the guy and convince him not to resist, until NYPD came. The key word here is "polite" and I remember some people saying that NYPD should get some training from them on politeness and human relationships.

nypost.com...

Violence begets violence, hate begets hate.

a reply to: Fallingdown

totally agree mate we have had a couple of cases hear too in nz

a reply to: miri2019

i watched a couple of german police in a bar in hamburg in the 70s they could have given the gestapo lessons

a reply to: Steveogold

All my encounters with German police were respectful and considerate, even in the most dire situation I was treated with respect by the ones out on the street. Your example is 50 years old during the cold war times.

Bad apples are everywhere to be found in all times.

originally posted by: ColoradoJens
a reply to: Fallingdown

Thank you for this post Fallingdown. I believe I understand your premise.

I too believe we are conditioned to believe at this point that if someone commits a crime, wrestles with cops and runs that it is ok to kill them.

It is not.

We are not supposed to be killing people in the streets committing crimes. We are supposed to be arresting them, even if that means they get away and more work is necessary.

We believe it is ok for police to be overzealous because Hollywood, movies, TV shows and they are showing practically round the clock 24/7 - teach us that police must be violent, must use excessive force, must beat up people to get information.

A major part of the blame lies squarely on Hollywood.

They have brainwashed police and the people that excessive force is warranted.

You can’t shoot people unless they are shooting at you or have a deadly weaponand are threatening your life . Stun guns don’t make the grade . (especially now) It’s not worth it unless your life is in danger .

You have never had police or military experience , have you ?
Someone pointing something at you , you wanna take the time to ask em "what you got there , buddy ?"
Really ?
You don't have that time.

a reply to: Boadicea

Trying to effect an arrest under state DUI law is provoking a confrontation? An entirely justified arrest is now a provocation.

Wow.

a reply to: Fallingdown

Most of the time people join the emergency services including the police out of not only a wish to have a career but to serve the community and to uphold the law, a lot of these men and woman are patriot's.

Of course some patriot's are racist's (most certainly not all just a margin whom are patriotic with twisted sensibility's and wrong sense of identity thrown in) and most human being's have ingrained stereotypes in there subconscious which is why anti discrimination training - and practice - is so important.

But also remember a police officer is only as good as his training even if his motivations are good ones and woe betide they should become bad ones over time as does happen on occasion.

Also for many of these police it is like serving on a constant war zone front line, they are the first to arrive at trouble and for them it is a daily occurrence, killing's, feud's, gang's, child abuse and domestic violence (never know what you are going to get with that one) and accident's as well as more mundane and often quite disturbing situations, in short they get constantly exposed to the most dehumanizing and often degrading situations, they see the very worst of humanity so even for those that want to do good they can often very quickly lose faith in humanity and even come down quite often with post traumatic disorders that they may veil to keep there job's while in fact even veiled these disorders will affect there behaviour.

Add to this that they sometimes have to act more like social workers than police and deal with other folk's trauma when they themselves may already have become traumatized by what they are experiencing daily on the front lines.

And to get there pension and wage they have to put up with this, only police can truly relate to police and in the face of an ignorant public that they are most often doing there best to protect they can be very clannish, this sadly mean's that corrupt, bent and unfit police can and often do retain there job's long after they ceased to be any benefit to there force.

And it also mean's that not all that train officers are fit to do so.

Then you have the calibre of the recruit's, often these day's there are claim's that your police are being recruited from your armed forces with a very high ratio of people that have already been deployed to war zone's and been dehumanized by both there former training and what they have already experienced becoming an issue, some of these are already suffering mild PTS even if it has not been diagnosed and so that also becomes and issue.

So remember when you are judging these officers to take this into account, not all of them are fit for duty and many should never have been put into there uniform but on the other hand most of them joined because they cared about there fellow citizen's and wanted to protect and otherwise be of help, good intentions can go south however when faced with the real world which is not a nice place.

But then also think on this, putting a gun in the hand's of a potentially already unstable former soldier and placing him into a rough neighbourhood to keep the peace can also be a recipe for disaster.

So who therefore is to blame?.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Boadicea

Trying to effect an arrest under state DUI law is provoking a confrontation? An entirely justified arrest is now a provocation.

Wow.

Wow indeed.

The man was passed out in a car... NOT driving at all much less under the influence.

"Justified" is a relative word at this point. And no, I do not consider it "justified" to arrest someone for DUI that was passed out in a vehicle. If such police intervention is necessary, then the goal should be to get the drunk guy home safely for everyone's benefit. Not all "crimes" should be crimes. Especially knowing how easily a non-violent victimless "crime" can be turned into a death sentence.

I'll concede that "Provocation" is also a relative word... I'll rephrase for this discussion. The police initiated the confrontation. Their lives were not in danger. Not even if the victim did point a taser at them (and I'm not sure he did). No one's life was in danger. Except the victim.

As long as this crap keeps happening, everyone in the country has good reason to fear for their lives from police officers. Survival instincts vs itchy trigger fingers are never a good combination.

a reply to: Boadicea

Georgia law qualifies a DUI as operating or being in control of a vehicle while under the influence. Sitting in a vehicle with the keys and ability to drive fulfills that definition. He admitted to driving into the parking lot. You have a problem with the law, it is what it is. But it was absolutely a justifiable arrest within that law.

The police initiated contact. The only person that initiated confrontation is the person who resisted arrest with violence, stripped a cop of a weapon, and then tried to use that weapon against them.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Boadicea

Georgia law qualifies a DUI as operating or being in control of a vehicle while under the influence. Sitting in a vehicle with the keys and ability to drive fulfills that definition. He admitted to driving into the parking lot. You have a problem with the law, it is what it is. But it was absolutely a justifiable arrest within that law.

Yes. I have a problem with the law then. I have a big problem with the law. Someone wrote the law... someone can re-write the law. The purpose of the law should be to protect the public, not necessarily to arrest people. If the public can be protected -- as in finding other means of getting the drunk person home safely -- then that should be the response.

Likewise, I have a big problem with any law that expects or requires anything more or less from their police.

The police initiated contact. The only person that initiated confrontation is the person who resisted arrest with violence, stripped a cop of a weapon, and then tried to use that weapon against them.

No. History tells us every contact with too many police is a potential conflict... therefore a confrontation, initiated by police. If those police officers escalate the tension, especially via abuse of force or power, then it is a provocation. And while I cannot speak for Atlanta police, too many officers are in fact trained to consider every single person on the street a threat, and their tactics do indeed escalate already tense situations.

This is just reality. Police demanding -- as a class -- people "respect and obey our authority or we'll kill you dammit!" has established police as a threat to the people. And instinct borne of fear will overrule common sense every time.

a reply to: Boadicea

You’re right, they could have simply taken him home. However, expecting them to do so and judging everything afterward from that position is a total non starter.

No. History tells us every contact with too many police is a potential conflict... therefore a confrontation, initiated by police. If those police officers escalate the tension, especially via abuse of force or power, then it is a provocation. And while I cannot speak for Atlanta police, too many officers are in fact trained to consider every single person on the street a threat, and their tactics do indeed escalate already tense situations.

History doesn’t tell us that, the media does. Tens of millions upon tens of millions of police/civilian contacts a year. Perhaps a thousand of those contacts end with a civilian being killed. And the overwhelming majority of those aren’t even questionable shootings, much less extra-judicial.

And all of that is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that those two officers did absolutely nothing to escalate anything at all. They were polite and calm for the entirety of that interaction, right up until he started trying to disarm one of them.

Zero tolerance....no in-house discipline.....if you break the law as a LEo you are no longer a Leo you can do millions of jobs but you can never be a LEo again...yes just one criminal act in Uniform and you are branded for lif just like everyone else....if a Brain Surgeon rapes you he is going to jail if he assaults you he is going to jail same with a Cop if he commits a crime against you....its simple...we just have to change the crooked laws and processes embedded over generations ASAP...then we have to criminalise every corked person Cop or not who deserves it then we have to open up fair litigation upon ALL police forces and individuals and Mayors and Cities who employ and direct these Groups.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Boadicea

You’re right, they could have simply taken him home. However, expecting them to do so and judging everything afterward from that position is a total non starter.

No. History tells us every contact with too many police is a potential conflict... therefore a confrontation, initiated by police. If those police officers escalate the tension, especially via abuse of force or power, then it is a provocation. And while I cannot speak for Atlanta police, too many officers are in fact trained to consider every single person on the street a threat, and their tactics do indeed escalate already tense situations.

History doesn’t tell us that, the media does. Tens of millions upon tens of millions of police/civilian contacts a year. Perhaps a thousand of those contacts end with a civilian being killed. And the overwhelming majority of those aren’t even questionable shootings, much less extra-judicial.

And all of that is absolutely irrelevant to the fact that those two officers did absolutely nothing to escalate anything at all. They were polite and calm for the entirety of that interaction, right up until he started trying to disarm one of them.

Perhaps a thousand of those being Civillians killed?....do you mean MURDERED?....because last time I checked arbitrary execution by Civic Employee on the spot was not legal in developed Countries.

There are laws in place that have been weaponized to support this murder-by-Cop....to support these Assaults....these Beatings...these Discriminatory searches and detainments...to support the organized graft that has destroyed he foundations of the Worlds Greatest most fair and just Legal System....it is horrible to have to have witnessed this happening and thank all gods for Trump and Friends who are finally cleaning this # up.

You break one law in Uniform and you become a Criminal...no breaks no internal discipline no "chances" if your mind cannot grasp and conceive of right and wrong then you never should av been allowed to be a LEO in the first place.....zero tolerance....if honest mistakes are made to god dam bad...being a Cop is a job and only one of millions...move your hass along if you are a criminal Cop.

a reply to: seedofchucky


resisting and running from police = morally justifiable death?

a reply to: one4all

Perhaps a thousand of those being Civillians killed?....do you mean MURDERED?....because last time I checked arbitrary execution by Civic Employee on the spot was not legal in developed Countries.

No, I don’t mean murdered. A cop shooting somebody who’s trying to use a weapon against them isn’t murder. I’ve already agreed with you repeatedly that corruption is bad and even then you couldn’t actually settle on what corruption is and isn’t.

Normally I find you entertaining to toy with but I’m not really interested in highlighting the idiocy of your commentary today. Go obsess over somebody else.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Boadicea

You’re right, they could have simply taken him home. However, expecting them to do so and judging everything afterward from that position is a total non starter.

Which is why society is at an impasse. I say it's NOT a nonstarter, that police are just as responsible for everything they did or did not do leading up to the confrontation, as they are for anything they do or do not do during and after the confrontation.

History doesn’t tell us that, the media does. Tens of millions upon tens of millions of police/civilian contacts a year. Perhaps a thousand of those contacts end with a civilian being killed. And the overwhelming majority of those aren’t even questionable shootings, much less extra-judicial.

Fair enough... and I will simply point the many many instances of excess force that do not result in death, that may or may not result in serious and/or long-term injury, or just a little roughing up. But are no less unwarranted and unacceptable.

We also both know that it is not the vast majority of officers doing so, that the instances are not evenly spread across the spectrum, and that it is usually a minority of officers within a department that have a majority of excess force complaints, with the acceptance -- if not approval -- of the top brass. They are out there. And the average person on the street does not know which cops they need to watch out for.

And yes, you're right that the media has completely blown the truth out of all proportion, especially in terms of young Black men. As well, politicians have propagandized and weaponized such instances. It doesn't make the fear of (especially) young Black men -- whether real or imagined or somewhere in between -- any less real.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: one4all

Perhaps a thousand of those being Civillians killed?....do you mean MURDERED?....because last time I checked arbitrary execution by Civic Employee on the spot was not legal in developed Countries.

No, I don’t mean murdered. A cop shooting somebody who’s trying to use a weapon against them isn’t murder. I’ve already agreed with you repeatedly that corruption is bad and even then you couldn’t actually settle on what corruption is and isn’t.

Normally I find you entertaining to toy with but I’m not really interested in highlighting the idiocy of your commentary today. Go obsess over somebody else.

Who are you trying to kid?
We KNOW DUMMY.
We know most of the executions are just that legally sanctioned executions.We KNOW that laws were bastardized over Generations to accommodate this....we KNOW that its all a big game of finger pointing and making sure no one gets sued we know that Cities and Mayors work with Police Depts and Unions and Lawyers to make sure none of them get sued or jailed....and we are not just going to move forward without going back to re-address these executions history evidences happened and were covered up.....so your bull# about the 1000 shooting deaths via Cop you made reference to as not being murders/executions is by proxy quite retarded by definition of that word.

We will soon be finding out how many deaths have really ben executions and how many have been justifiable actions of self-defense….we will find out how many instances occurred where SOP escalation was actioned by LEOs which forced dynamics to elevate to the lethal level....then we will reverse-engineer the dynamics to pinpoint the laws bastardised to support these executions then we will pinpoint the Groups responsible for Lobbying to artificially change and weaponize our good laws in building this house of Cards and then we will remediate them accordingly.

Yesterday your 1000 deaths were justifiable...today we are not making that assumption we are now revisiting these incidents and we are going to rake every rotten criminal Cop back over the coals...wether the crooked System supported them in the past or not.

1000 cops did not have weapons used against them.....you are full of #...in these public executions we rarely see anyone attacking the Cops we see Cops attacking the People and by SOP escalating things to the lethal levels.........a depressed suicidal person who answers their front door for a Police Wellness check after voluntarily calling them for help that gets pumped with 15 rounds from the service revolvers of multiple Leos because the clearly ill person did not comply with repeated verbal requests then moved one tiny inch before being riddled with hot lead …. as per current SOP....you see they are sanctioned executioner/murderers in many many cases..those who are responsible for developing this bastardized SOP must be also charged along with the Cops actioning the SOP right up to Civic Leaders and lobby Groups and Union Leaders.