Anti-Catholicism

Catholicism has proved itself to be corrupt and greedy.

The faith will die as more and more people convert to other religions.

Protestant? I'm not protestant. Neither am I Catholic, Jew or any other denomination. I am an indipendent free child of God, who follow his calling. To tell you guys what weakens our brotherhood. Which things that make a gulf between the rightious and the church. Your system (tower) is manmade! It wasn't rightious before, why should it be today? How can repeating Ave Maria this and that many times set anyone free from anything? Your dogmas and ways lead to hell, so denounce it, leave it, sell what you own and give the money to the poor and start meeting as we were meant to meet -- as a caring community around an ecclesia under God.

"The true value of a human being can be found in degrees to which he has attained liberation from the self." -- Albert Einstein

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Yeah right! How does his hair look like? Did he have long hair? How can he be the highest priest in heaven when he has long hair? I believe the person on your image is in family with Pinoccio. Jesus has short, dark hair and he does not resemble any of your images, but I once saw an image of Peter that looked a bit like him.

That was really sad

What you saw was image inserted in your mind by satan.
There is no way that you are right and saints like st. Faustina wrong. Their life was perfect, almost sinless.

What you have experienced is deception from satan.
If you tell your story to any smart and experienced priest or mistic they would immediately know what are they dealing with.

Have you ever had encounters with demons? Around you?
Because that could be indication they are interested in you.
I met several people like you with their own "unmistakable" theories (with obvious holes in them) - and all of them had encounters with dark forces.
It leaves trails, and even though it seems they are gone they keep working inside of you.

You are full of hate and for catholic church- and what is church? It's people. Jesus teaches that we hate nobody and nothing, love your enemy!

Open your eyes, there are those who on the way to become greatest saints falled, deceived by Satan. You are weak, just like me and everyone else so stop pretending you know everything and that only you among billions know what is truth while Holy Spirit is something unknown to you. Holy Spirit reveals to God's people truth which cannot be found in this world, on Earth, so stop searching for truth there- you will find nothing but meaningless words and conclude nothing but lie!

It is impossible for you to know everything. Know that every little small thing, variable which slips to you while you determine your falseful theories is important and you are rejecting them.

You cannot trust only yourself, that is not the world God has created so listen!

[Edited on 15-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Originally posted by mikromarius
How can repeating Ave Maria this and that many times set anyone free from anything? Your dogmas and ways lead to hell, so denounce it, leave it, sell what you own and give the money to the poor and start meeting as we were meant to meet -- as a caring community around an ecclesia under God.

Repeating prayers is not just mindless repeating as you think.
With each prayer we are knocking on God's heart and pleasing Him by meditating words of prayer. God doesn't think like humans, it is surely not just repeating.

Proof against your claims:
Luke 11:5
Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and he goes to him at midnight and says, 'Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, because a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have nothing to set before him.'
"Then the one inside answers, 'Don't bother me. The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything.' I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness he will get up and give him as much as he needs.

Power of prayer:
Isaiah 38:5
"Go and tell Hezekiah, 'This is what the LORD , the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will add fifteen years to your life."

Virgin Mary to the children of Fatima - debunks what you say against Ave Maria as it is repeated 50 times in Rosary:
"Pray the Rosary every day, to obtain peace for the world."

I have a question?

Why is it that the Christian faith (in general) treats the fact that Jesus died on the cross after 6 or so hours as heaven sent? When in fact the nails placed in his hands and feet would have caused him to bleed to death in roughly about the same time?

Mikro, your soul has been clouded by satan. He has decieved you, and is feeding your pride with arrogance. I will pray to to our Holy Virgin Mother, that she may ask Jesus to lighten your heart and show you true salvation.

Our Mother who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be your name.
By kingdom come...............




The weakness you show, enforce's my idea that you are lost. It is the Catholic's that are having their religion knocked in this thread, yet you show more anger and resentment than any of the resident catholics. You are despreately reaching for scriptures to prove you point, but to say, you are falling short each time, is an understatement. You do not have any grasp or founded argument. So restort to calling us the blind children of a great whore. This is not the way to get someone to consider changing faith. You Mikro are a self-righteous biggot ( but I'll Pray for you reguardless). The catholic chucrh has for centuries had to weather people like you who suffer from what is known as Tall poppy syndrome.

Originally posted by Megaquad
Virgin Mary to the children of Fatima - debunks what you say against Ave Maria as it is repeated 50 times in Rosary:
"Pray the Rosary every day, to obtain peace for the world."

Snipped alot of nonsense....

Yes, the rosemary beads is a great tool for praying: try this instead of the ave Maria: For each bead, pray for someone who needs it or for a cause that will help the poor and needy. Mother Mary isn't deaf you know, and it's extremely annoying to have someone in your ear repeating "hello Mary, I like you, hello Mary, I like you" all day long. Pray to God in your own words and with a sincere wish behind it about making the best out of life, to help those who need it and be good to people, make that which is crooked straight, feed the hungry, heal the sick, encourage the weak, direct the strong. Fight and remove that which brings about schism and God's wrath. Jesus is a leader who walks among us, he's not a man who drinks his wine from a golden cup set with gemstones.

John 5:31�If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32�There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33�Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 34�But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 35�He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 36�But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37�And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38�And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39�Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40�And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41�I receive not honour from men. 42�But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43�I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44�How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45�Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46�For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47�But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Blessings,
Mikromarius

For each bead, pray for someone who needs it or for a cause that will help the poor and needy. Mother Mary isn't deaf you know, and it's extremely annoying to have someone in your ear repeating "hello Mary, I like you, hello Mary, I like you

Mary did not say that it is annoying! That is absurd You think heavenly beings have brain weak like ours to think like us and regard prayers as annoying in such way?
You cannot change words that have already been said by Mary to the children in Fatima. If she wants people to pray Rosary then AMEN to that- you have no right to question or debate about that.

You have amazing skills of twisting reality and all kinds of sentences to please you.
But I will now pray for you so that God may reveal you the truth.


[Edited on 15-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Originally posted by Toltec
I have a question?

Why is it that the Christian faith (in general) treats the fact that Jesus died on the cross after 6 or so hours as heaven sent? When in fact the nails placed in his hands and feet would have caused him to bleed to death in roughly about the same time?

???

wow. I am lost for words for you man. Read the New Testament.

Originally posted by Pyros
Well, I originally started this thread with the intent of trying to guage other peoples feelings as to why so many people in the western world enjoy dispariging Catholics.

It seems to me that I have yet to find a rational reason. Most of the anit-Cartholics here range from those who gently and respectfully disagree with Catholic dogma and tradition, to those who seem to hate us blindly for one reason or another. One of the original things I said was how the Church had never taught me to hate other religions. My knowledge of them is somewhat limited; I've had to research them to know more.

I find it strange that there are so many anti-Catholics out there armed with reems of so-called facts and proof that we are wrong about everything. It only reinforces by belief (also learned through first-hand experience) that many main-stream protestant religions either openly or secretly encourage Catholic-bashing.

I don't give a crap about what was decided 1,000 years ago, or who did what to who in the 1700's, or what Jesus really meant when he said this or that. I think too many people are losing the message in their attempts to interpret it.

I will say this: If any of you out there think that YOU know what God wants or thinks right this very instant.....you are an arrogant, pompous fool. God can change His mind. He has done so in the past. His influence can be swayed, the Bible tells us so. Who is to say what He thinks and feels right now? You?

If you think you can read the words in the Bible and then tell me "God meant for us to do this or that......." you are also an arrogant, pompous fool. The bible is not an instruction manual on how to assemble and operate a good christian. It is a road map, sometimes badly drawn, on how to get from one place (here) to another place (God's grace). Read it like stereo instructions and you are bound to get misassembled.

The true nature of God is a complete mystery. He has revealed his existance to us, and has shown us (both directly and indirectly) the way we should live our lives if we are to obtain his grace. He provided us with his Son so that His life would be an example of how our lives should and could be led.

The message the Jesus brought us is thus: Love your neighbor, forgive your enemies, be righteous in the face of wickedness, and believe in the Lord. It is a simple message. One that can be followed in the guise of many religions and faiths, including Jews and Muslims.

To all you haters, I hope you change your ways. Our church teaches us to love you, despite your un-christian ways and beliefs about us. Our methods and traditions may seem strange to you, but we have been doing it this way for centuries before the concept of your ways were even inspired. You will not change us.

In my hometown there is one Catholic parish and about a dozen protestant churches. Over the years I have seen the protestant churches change hands and denominations countless times (except the Presbyterian church), and I have wondered "do protestant people change their religions/sects as often as these churches change ownership"? When they get sick of one pastor/set of ideals do they jump ship and start going elsewhere? My in-laws have practiced in an "Assemblies of God" church, a "Baptist" church, and now they go to a "Church of God".

Being Catholic at least provides me with a sense of stability, familiarity and unity that I, quite frankly, do not see in the protestant world (with the Church of England and the Mormons maybe being the sole exceptions).

Bash away. It will not bother me. And I wont waste my breath criticizing the finer points of your faith. Its enough for me to know that I am part of a family who cares about me (and yes, our family has it share of problems). Our church will remain solid, like the Rock on which it was founded, while others erode away or wither on the vine as time marches on.

Jesus once said "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account".

I thank Him for that blessing.

As I find disputing someone line for line tiresome, I will just say: You asked the question, and now, you are angry with peoples opoinions and personal experiences!?

Do not ask if you do not want to know. You obviously wanted to know something?

Maddas, Im unqualified!!!!!

Open your eyes man, I didn't make this stuff up, thats what literally happen, I'm not using faith, or any stuff from the bible. I'm a History major, I know my stuff, thats why I say it.

The Christian religions existant today are all fractions from the Catholic church. So for arguments sake, how could they be more right than the original catholic church.

Uh, no way in hell thats even true. Call me what you want, but Jesus was Christian not Catholic, and Christianity came first.

I'll say it again, with respect to the non-catholic religions, All of the misconceptions of the catholic church are attributed to small or narrow minded people following the unfounded fanishonable anti-catholic propagana. Most of this fact you are saying is mainly imagined.

Uh, Im not Anti-Catholic, and Maddas you would be the narrow minded individual for saying that stupid comment.

The Christian Church came first, then it was split into 2 churches, one the Roman Catholic and the other the Orthadox Church. Learn you history and you might not sound so imbasilic when making a comment. After the church split the Catholics persecuted every religion left and YES, I do know about their heirachy. It was made by the first Bishop who thought that he should be in charge.

The Catholics believed in those days that its Church over State, while the Eastern Roman Empire believed State over Church.

Just so you know, the only reason the Catholic Religion became so powerful is because the Westen Roman Empire fell and the church being the next powerful source of gov't became in charge of the are.

By the way that paper that was supposively sighned by Constantine was a fake, the Pope lied about it.

I like Catholics, but if your a Catholic, you better be walking with your head down for a while because its obvious you don't own your own religion.


I've read your comments, their based on morals, not truth, you can bitch all you want but its not going to get you anywhere.

And thank you for not addressing the issue, you proved my point.

Helen and mikromarius - My bad, had a bad day. Wasn't thinking strait, didn't mean any insult.

You know we are arguing over matters which in the end wont matter because when the Antichrist does show himself he will prosecute the Christians for their love of Christ and their hope for the future kingdom.

If Christians act like true Christians then we should have nothing to fear because in the midst of kaos there will be true Christian help....and in the midst there is Jesus Christ like he promised ......but He did not say it will be an easy road,but a long and narrow one that will require all Christians to carry their Cross.....
Prophecy has said that when the end is near Christianity will be turned against each other and hatred will abound.
It seems it is happening today.
When the Antichrist comes Christianity will be like it was in the early church ....prosecuted for their true beliefs in Christ.....But for those that want to live in a worldly fashion they will not see the Antichrist for who he really is.
When Jesus Christ came He came for the sinners.........but when the Antichrist comes he will come for the Christians to cause hatred and kaos so they turn against each other......
The Antichrist wont go to the unbeleivers because he knows that he has them already.......At first he will seem like a great teacher and thinker and later he will reveal his true colours.
Like in the early Church Christianity will be one ......and there will only be two roads to choose.......follow the earthly teachings of the world leader or follow Jesus Christ's teachings that were handed down by the Apostles......
When Christianity flourished in the early Church many Christians died because of their faith and their true beleif in Christ.........but the good thing is .......from those Christian Martyrs many more sprang up and continued Christianity .........
I'ts like a plant that dies and all the seeds fall into the ground and more seem to grow from that one plant that died......
Christianity will never dissappear and there will always be true Christians that will hold to the teachings of that early church.

An icon of Jesus Christ is not an idol....it is a picture that reminds us of who we are......they are not a neccessaty but it helps to remind us of His life .......eg if you are surrounded by pictures of 'pop stars' then your mind is elsewhere,obviously not with God....but having icons of rightous people remind us of heaven and what they did for the whole of the world......their life ,their prayers and their dedication to serving God.....an icon of the Saint is like an intercessor between God and mankind.....we do not pray to the icon(image,wood,or whatever it may be)we simply ask for their prayers .........And it is not something of a modern thing.......Jews of the old testament asked for the prayers of rightous people to intercede on their behalf .(I have written about this in another thread).
So an icon is not pagan or some worshipping idol .....it is like a window that creates a picture for us .......

Yeah, the first sentence of what Helen said!!

When the Son of God comes, you had better not be caught worshiping the Beast or the False Prophet.

If you accept Jesus as the Son of God and your savior who died on the cross and rose from the dead for YOUR sins, I think you will be fine.

Originally posted by Megaquad
You have amazing skills of twisting reality and all kinds of sentences to please you.
But I will now pray for you so that God may reveal you the truth.

Looks like you are the one twisting reality here. I didn't speek about what Mother Mary said to some holy woman centuries ago. I simply said that it must be incredibly boring sitting in Heaven counting Ave Marias from sinners, much more boring than if people for instance saved a prayer for something important, like caring for people, reminding the winged ones that someone is suffering and needs God's help. Instead it's the inward egosentric "if-I-only-save-30-AMs-I-can-feel-fine-after-hitting-my-wife" over and over again reality that fills the ether. You like most other Catholics I've met show a lacking ability to look beyond your own system. Inside your bubble everything you do is legal and perfect, completely fulfilling all your gods' wishes. Well you are wrong. You fail to do one thing and that is to honour the Law. And the Law is the word that became Jesus. By not honouring the Law, you don't honour the Son. The love you direct to an icon, you take away from Jesus. The children you deny your monks and priests you take away from Jesus. It isn't right to put aside the Law like you guys do. That you don't see this is a mystery to me. For instead of agreeing on that this is a paradox, you go off in a patronising tone in an almost military brainwash manner: "You have demons! You are influenced by Satan! I am right! You are wrong! We are the good! You are poor! I am prosperous! I will pray for you!" I don't know how you can live with yourselves as believers in only half of the bible. I sure can't.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Tyriffic have read the New Testament as well as spent a considerable amount of time in Christian schools.

Bottom line, put nails in someone's hand and feet, place them on a Crucifix and 6 hours later a considerable amount of blood that was in there bodies is not
there any more.

Its just a question one that makes sense

Originally posted by Toltec
Bottom line, put nails in someone's hand and feet, place them on a Crucifix and 6 hours later a considerable amount of blood that was in there bodies is not
there any more.

Yes and taken in to concideration that when you are hung on a cross like Jesus was, you'll have to push your body upwards with your legs to breathe. For each time you push upwards the greater damage you'll make to your shins or feet. And on top of this there are indisia pointing towards that Jesus even had a punctured longue; when the soldier pierced his thorax, blood mixed with water poured out. He was sooo dead when the guys carried him to the grave that evening, infact, taken all the things into concideration, it seems like a miracle he lasted as long as he did. And an even greater miracle that he came back to life, showing few if any signs of weakness. Truely a remarcable acheivement.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

OK so pretty much, no one discussing in this thread is going to argue that given the account.

Jesus Christ, by the time he was taken of the cross was a dead as a doornail. No miracle occurred to cause that death it was the result of the trauma.

If someone feels I am wrong please interject?

PS: there is a point to this

I can fully accept that the Romans put Christ to a gruesome death, along with thousands of other incarcerated "criminals" and political prisoners crucified on a regular basis.

Death by crucifixion is immediately plausible, and morally repugnant.

Many Christian Churches choose to use the cross, as instrument of torture and death, as their most prominent symbol and marketing brand. More 'modern' ones have varied from that tradition.

The story goes more off the rails with the principle of resurrection. Bible, shrouds, talk of second comings, reported dialogue between Christ and men of God, none of these have really convinced me of the resurrection as a 'skeptic' in this matter.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar


Many Christian Churches choose to use the cross, as instrument of torture and death, as their most prominent symbol and marketing brand. More 'modern' ones have varied from that tradition.

A good point you make MA. Worth noting is that the Catholic church does not use just the cross, they go the whole hog and use the crucifiction (the cross with Jesus nailed on to it(albiet wronglly depicted as the nails are usually through Christs hand and feet)).It Can be found centre front of any catholic church, between statues of the Virgin Mary and Joseph, and surrounded by the Stations of the cross, all 14, and the candels, the candels are important too!

Originally posted by helen670
An icon of Jesus Christ is not an idol....it is a picture that reminds us of who we are......

We are not allowed! Any picture of the divine, even of the things on Earth and below the Earth are defined as idols in the Law and is prohibited, the Law is the Word that became flesh in Jesus of Nazareth. It is prohibited for obvious reasons too which I have elaborated on earlier a thousand times! That you guys fail to see this and fail to respect the Word that became flesh in Jesus is a tragedy. I don't say I'm an angel or a saint who follow every commandment, every little direction and detail in the Law, but I love the Law, I see it's beauty and it's perfectiveness and I love it with all my heart. One of the very basics in the Law is that God is invisible, he can change his appearance like you change cloathes. Then why you you curse the holy ones by paying an artist to find a good piece of wood, paint it with their cursed mortal faces, illuminate it, write words on it and put a frame of gold on it, well what is different from the idols of the old? They're exactly the same. Helen even admits it, only she does not see that the Jews who kept such idols broke the Law, and fell short for the mercy God offered them through the Law if they followed it. There is nothing different between icons and idols. Icons are idols in it's most obvious form and that's how it is, no matter how old or valuable they are, no matter what you use them for, it is horrible! Use them as wood for your fireplace! And to pray to anyone except God is adultary. How you are able to twist these things and advocate the sins against it is a mystery to me. I just look forward to the day when Jesus returns and he does not at all look like the person on your idols and posters. Jesus can change his appearance as he wishes. When he showed himself for the two on the road to Emmaus he used another appearance than the one they knew, but his words "exposed" him: The wisdom here is: concentrate on his words, not how long "his" nose is or the three edged wrinkle in "his" forehead. Folly and shame it is. Traffic signs on the road to Hell.

Jesus has short, black hair when I meet him, and here is the explanation why: (about the instructions for the Levites and the priests in the new temple):

Ezekiel 44:20�Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.

And here is the reason why Jesus can't drink wine until he will drink it new with us in the Kingdom:

Eze 44:21�Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.

We read in the Epistle to the Hebrews, and know that Jesus is the highest priest in Heaven. And Jesus is not a lawless person. God made the Law, Jesus is the Law. And when he went home to Heaven he entered the inner court, the Holy of Holies and was once again instated as the Highest Priest in the Temple in Heaven in the order of Melkisedek.

It is true that the idols you keep should remind you of who we are: We are sinners.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

[Edited on 16-7-2003 by mikromarius]