How Does ATS Feel About This Sanders Medicare Plan

So it would literally double what I am paying now. Great.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Big chunks of what you're spending on the current system do not provide any services, hence it could be considered "free stuff" according to the usual ATS definition. Just like an UBI would be "free stuff" even if people had to pay taxes in order to make it happen. None of this is actually for free tho, but that's more of a general problem with this lousy platitude "free stuff".

To cherry the pie further: this status quo boils down to socialism for the rich (aka insurance companies), the kind of socialism our rightweepers never want to talk about. A pattern emerges, and I can smell the lobbyists running circles around this topic.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: BrianFlanders

Such a system pretty becomes one that's used to the advantage of the state though.

Frankly, I'm just not buying your arguments. I can't see the logic in resisting more freedom of choice. When everything is said and done, what I'm after is the right to make my own choices. All of them. Anything that involves my life and how I live it and what happens to me should be mine.

I am not saying I don't think you should be able to cling desperately to the last thread of survival for however long you can maintain it. I'm just saying that people who don't want to have to do that shouldn't be forced to. That's it. That's my entire "agenda". Freedom of choice. How hard is that to understand?

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

How much will it cost me with increase in taxes elsewhere ? As usual with any government policy the devil is in the details . I personally like my private insurance .

a reply to: 10uoutlaw

Here is a major problem I see with Gov healthcare. You like your private insurance, what happens if you don't like the service you are getting? YOU have the choice to go get it somewhere else with the services you want and need at the cost you want. That company you just left can take your loss as a lesson and either choose to improve their situation or risk the possibility of losing more customers which could in turn make them up their game and improve services creating competition and ultimately driving down prices.

If the Government plan is all you have there is no incentive to provide anything good because where are your customers going to go if you are the only game in town. It will be a major disaster, all of our freedom will be gone and if you are unhappy with the situation you are stuck. Besides cost and the other issues already mentioned this is the number 1 issue in my opinion, no thanks.

a reply to: Sillyolme

The stuff you pay for

a reply to: Charliebrowndog

As far as I'm aware any country with universal healthcare still offers the ability to get private insurance on top of your existing, government provided, plan.

So you still have the option.

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

How Does ATS Feel About This Sanders Medicare Plan

. The best and greatest country in the world and at the same time a place so screwed up that it couldn’t do what 70% of the rest of the world was able to pull off.

I dont disagree with that sentiment that by todays standards no country should be able to call themselve a first world nation without providing healthcare and education to all its citizens as a basic necessity via true capitalist incentives, which would only make the country greater /fantasy

However my problem is that the Democratics have zero common sense. They are wanting to give more money and more power to a group of people that are riddled with conflict of interest while expecting solutions from them.

Its the same idiotic expectation to give the mob more power and money to fix crime in your city.

If the democrats really cared and wanted to fix healthcare they would stop talking about fixing healthcare with a bunch of corrupted individuals and ONLY concentrate on minimizing conflict of interest. Once the conflict of interest is minimized then start talking about universal healthcare and education.

Until then STFU in wanting to piss my money and rights away to a bunch of pedo hair sniffing,grab them by the kitty cigar holder scumbags amd their corporate pedo buddies.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

source ? I highly doubt that figure ,you are saying a family making 100000 grand a year is paying 20000 out of their paychecks for just having healthcare .

a reply to: dragonlover12

Well put ,hope your husband recovers .

a reply to: Charliebrowndog

If the Government plan is all you have there is no incentive to provide anything good because where are your customers going to go if you are the only game in town. It will be a major disaster

This is the part people don't like to talk about. Sure in the UK you can always get private healthcare, but then you are paying 2X!

In most parts of Europe servers/waiters/waitresses don't get tips, they are paid a flat wage. Compare service in those areas to the US and tell me if service is the same... It's not. period.

a reply to: 10uoutlaw

How much of Americans' paychecks go to health care, charted

I know I'm personally spending about 15% of my pre-tax income on just my premium.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

It does not matter what a politician says, or what people want.
There are other major players in the game:


Insurance companies
Big Pharma
Hospitals
Dr & Nurses/ medical staff.

You think all the above is going to take a pay cut??

originally posted by: 10uoutlaw
a reply to: Xcalibur254

source ? I highly doubt that figure ,you are saying a family making 100000 grand a year is paying 20000 out of their paychecks for just having healthcare .

Where i live in Canada there are long lines at medical facilities, no rooms at the hospitals, lack of medical personnel and that is in the cities, when you get to rural communities it gets much worse.

On top of that, all the top medical students end up being hired out of province and out of country, they tend to go where the workload is and pay are really good, not be a slave for lower dollars (Do you want the doctor that graduated with the A's treating you or the one that barely got by?). There are stories in the news here all the time on shortages of nurses or community clinics being shut down. There are not enough medical clinics here and as the doctors that run them are getting old, they can't find anyone to take on their patients. In some communities it is the public health nurse you get to see, not a doctor.

This is what you get with socialist type health care.

We pay a ton in taxes on income. Up to $47k/yr is 15%, at $200k it is $49k + 33% of anything over that. It gets worse from there. On top of that I pay 15% sales tax on everything. A litre of gas here is $1.30 so with 4 litres in a gallon it's about $5.20. A gallon of milk is $4.00, a pack of smokes is $14. A 24 case of beer is $50.

Socialist utopia for sure...my ass!!!!!

a reply to: Xcalibur254

my insurance cost me 2000 a year for my family out of my paycheck . MY wife and I earn roughly 130000 a year before taxes , you do the math . 90 day supply of prescriptions = 27 dollars , maximum out of pocket cost per person =3000 .

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Honestly, if I can pay around the same amount each month (roughly 250$) for my family of 4, and my taxes do not go up, then I am all for something like this....and I am a Trump supporter.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: Charliebrowndog

If the Government plan is all you have there is no incentive to provide anything good because where are your customers going to go if you are the only game in town. It will be a major disaster

This is the part people don't like to talk about. Sure in the UK you can always get private healthcare, but then you are paying 2X!

In most parts of Europe servers/waiters/waitresses don't get tips, they are paid a flat wage. Compare service in those areas to the US and tell me if service is the same... It's not. period.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Dinner is not the same thing as heart surgery. In the US if you can't afford to eat a fancy meal at a full service restaurant, you can eat at Taco Bell. Obviously you will not get the same quality but you will get what you need.

In the US if you cannot afford insurance, you're just plain screwed. The doctors will lock you out if you can't pay. There are no alternatives when you need someone to save your life. This is not the same thing as food service. Some people are at that place where they cannot pay. What the hell are they supposed to do?

a reply to: 10uoutlaw

I make 120k a year roughly and my health plan (high deductible) for my 4 person family is about 250 a month. To be honest it sucks. Wife just had a baby 3 weeks ago and we got a 10,000 bill for 24 hours in the hospital. Good times.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

If they are that destitute and poor there already exists free healthcare for them. It’s called Medicaid, and it’s all 100% free.

Unless we completely overhaul our medical system here in the USA, that kind of change will just bankrupt the taxpayer. Think about those premiums, on the middle class tied to a twenty percent higher income tax to cover the healthcare for everyone. Bernie isn't going to fix things right, it took Europe many years to implement a successful socialist healthcare system. We have lots of stockholders and company execs that would be pissed if we changed things fast.

We need to do something about the unnecessary tests and procedures and implement quality of life safeguards and stop the pushing of Pharma drugs on people instead of teaching people to eat food that matches their genetic lineage.