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originally posted by: Lazarus Short
I am here to dispel the fear of Hell from the hearts and minds of men. Perhaps you can tell me why you are so dismissive of evidence that God is both willing and able to save all - it should be good news to you, unless Hell is your god...or at least a spiritual stronghold.
originally posted by: Dcopymope
originally posted by: Lazarus Short
I am here to dispel the fear of Hell from the hearts and minds of men. Perhaps you can tell me why you are so dismissive of evidence that God is both willing and able to save all - it should be good news to you, unless Hell is your god...or at least a spiritual stronghold.
If Jesus wasn't willing to give every soul a chance for their names to be entered into the book of life, he wouldn't be bothered with the expected "great white throne" judgement to begin with. They wouldn't even see their day in court, he would just throw them all into the lake of fire right away like he does with Satan, the beast and the false prophet. This is not a matter of him being willing to save everyone, because he could if he wants to. He won't, because if you believe that your God is a just one, then you also believe that justice must be served. If you were an evil little ass hole your whole life, there will be consequences. You're not going to play God and think he'll just let everything you ever did in your life slide on by.
originally posted by: Lazarus Short
originally posted by: Dcopymope
originally posted by: Lazarus Short
I am here to dispel the fear of Hell from the hearts and minds of men. Perhaps you can tell me why you are so dismissive of evidence that God is both willing and able to save all - it should be good news to you, unless Hell is your god...or at least a spiritual stronghold.
If Jesus wasn't willing to give every soul a chance for their names to be entered into the book of life, he wouldn't be bothered with the expected "great white throne" judgement to begin with. They wouldn't even see their day in court, he would just throw them all into the lake of fire right away like he does with Satan, the beast and the false prophet. This is not a matter of him being willing to save everyone, because he could if he wants to. He won't, because if you believe that your God is a just one, then you also believe that justice must be served. If you were an evil little ass hole your whole life, there will be consequences. You're not going to play God and think he'll just let everything you ever did in your life slide on by.
Be aware of two things:
1. I am not pushing the idea that the wicked get into the Kingdom under a shower of rose petals, with all forgiven automatically. I believe that everyone answers for their sins, even "every idle word." OTOH, I also see Jesus' return and the resurrection as the grand fulfillment of the Jubilee, when all go free of their master (sin) and return to their family, lands and rewards. Yet, some will require correction, chastisement and disciplining to be fit for the Kingdom. It will NOT be pleasant, but it must happen if death is to be defeated/destroyed, and for God to become All in all. I believe He is both able and willing to bring about such an end.
2. Yes, God is just, and part of His justice was to send His Own Son to suffer and die for our benefit. I will not elaborate on that, just hoping you will meditate on it for a while.
(Revelation 20:7-9) "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, [8] And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [9] And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."
originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Dcopymope: My position is that those who throw in with Satan, as you mention in the Revelation 20:7-9, are not just devoured, they are devoured by Godfire. I did an extensive word study on "fire" and related words in the KJV, and was impelled to conclude that that there are two kinds of fire in the Bible: natural fire and God-fire. There is no "Hellfire," not only because Hell is a 404, but because all supernatural fire is a manifestation of God. I can copy and paste the relevant chapter from my book, if you like. So, those devoured by the fire endure what those tossed into the Lake of Fire endure:
chastisement
purification
cleansing
the burning away of personal chaff, tares, wood, hay and stubble
exposure to the Spirit of God
and
eventual redemption.
Anyway, if they are simply annihilated, they are dead, and then Death cannot be defeated or destroyed, can it?
(Matthew 10:28) "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
(Matthew 25:40-41) "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. [41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"
originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Dcopymope: I understand where you are coming from, but my opinion is based on my review of EVERY verse in the Bible, and most of them I have yet to mention. If, as you say, the whole person is destroyed in the Lake of Fire, then we are left with a plot hole...that being when the time comes to proclaim the destruction and defeat of Death - oops! - the ones we tossed into the LoF are still dead, so we can't proclaim it. There's no getting around it - annihilation bumps up on this rock and sinks. Then there is the plot hole of damnation - the damned are supposedly alive in Hell (even though they must be dead to go there...figure that one out), but damnation bumps on a rock called Revelation 21:5, and again, sinks. There is just no way around it - I Jesus the Christ is going to make everything new, then ECT in Hell is ruled out. Anyway, God never mentioned the creation of Hell, did He? I find that Damnation and Annihilation generate gobs of plot holes that UR does not. With bad translation and theo-illogical bias eliminated, the Bible makes perfect sense.
(Revelation 22:1-3) "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. [2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. [3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"