Three Questions For Damnationists

I'm to the point were Paul, an Simon the Magus, are actually based off of Apollonouis of Tyana, and were man made figures that didnt exist at all, while all three are originally from ancient Turkey.

The guy above might of been the original inspiration for Jesus an his parables too, but hey I wasn't there when it happened.

It might have something to do a guy named Felix who was close to Simon Peter, and Paul apparently.

originally posted by: Specimen88
I'm to the point were Paul, an Simon the Magus, are actually based off of Apollonouis of Tyana, and were man made figures that didnt exist at all, while all three are originally from ancient Turkey.

The guy above might of been the original inspiration for Jesus an his parables too, but hey I wasn't there when it happened.
It might have something to do a guy named Felix who was close to Simon Peter, and Paul apparently.

I think you are confused.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I think you are confused.

Aren't we all??
We discuss for a reason.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Specimen88
I'm to the point were Paul, an Simon the Magus, are actually based off of Apollonouis of Tyana, and were man made figures that didnt exist at all, while all three are originally from ancient Turkey.

The guy above might of been the original inspiration for Jesus an his parables too, but hey I wasn't there when it happened.
It might have something to do a guy named Felix who was close to Simon Peter, and Paul apparently.

I think you are confused.

Oh you have no idea the amount of confusion that could go with the above.

As the Bible says, "Study to show yourself approved...". If you study the right version, confusion falls away IF you find the right version, and IF you connect with the God of that Bible.

Oh you have no idea the amount of confusion that could go with the above.

a reply to: Specimen88

I'm to the point were Paul, an Simon the Magus, are actually based off of Apollonouis of Tyana, and were man made figures that didnt exist at all, while all three are originally from ancient Turkey.

Apollonouis of Tyana was a neo-pythagorean. Because the neo-pythagorean movement was sometimes seen as magic by the romans in the 1st century they had to hide some of their writings in
numerology.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

This is about me thinking that Paul not being real isnt it?

a reply to: glend

And a Gnostic too, but apparently he had quite a bit of renown back then Even though there isnt that much details about him. He was well known enough to stir an to have survived a one sided confrontation with a Caesar known as Domitian.

He was known to travel alot, an did say he saw the M.E an India, an was fluent in many languages too. He might of been Simon the Magus, whom is said to have had a rather large cult following that is until Peter an Paul rebuked him. If that not the case, then why did Saint Peter discard Simon from his own name just to be called Peter.

He also was born sometime in early century a.d, so he share some similarities to Jesus, or Jesus to him, except for the feats.

As for Paul, I'm still trying figure out somethings my self, but it been believed that Paul could of been Simon the Magus. More or less just coincidental, with nothing concrete.

originally posted by: Specimen88
a reply to: Lazarus Short

This is about me thinking that Paul not being real isnt it?

It is always about more than just that. Since none of us were there and then to see for ourselves, I think it is best to rely on the source material, rather than rely on the second-guessing of some modern "scholar" who must come up with a novel idea for his/her PhD thesis.

a reply to: Specimen88

Philostratus the Elder (170 – 247) wrote that Apollonius lived between 3 BC– 97 AD. Perhaps the star of Bethleham is the neo-pythagoreans pentad. That the egyptian obelisc exists at the centre of St Peters Square as a monument to the founders. But if people feel truth in the message, it really doesn't matter, whose mouth it came from.

Back to the subject of threes. There are three leading theories about the afterlife:

Damnationism

Annihilationism

Universalism.

But which is correct? Advocates of the first two discuss and argue, but at the end of the day, they consider everyone in the other camp to be Christians, and saved. I don't see the same courtesy being extended to members of the third camp.

Changing focus a bit, there are three leading theories about how God deals with saving men:

Calvinism - stating that God is able to save, but chooses not to save most.

Arminianism - stating that God is unable to save all, but is willing to do do.

Universalism - stating that God is both willing and able to save all.

Again, proponents of the first two theories discuss and argue, but at the end of the day, they're OK. Universalists are told they are promoting the doctrines of devils, and will go to Hell for saying there is no Hell. Logical? Oh, yes.

Three theories, three theories, three theories...do you see what is wrong with that? It is this: men are accustomed to dualistic thinking. Light versus dark. Good versus evil. Heaven versus Hell. A third theory is as welcome as an extra thumb.

I have been exposed to all three theories about the afterlife, and have found two main things by which I take my stand:

Hell is pagan, not Biblical. It would take posting my entire 240+ book manuscript here to show why, and I have no illusions about convincing many of you with it if I did.

God, the heavens, the earth and man - in fact, all the Cosmos - is a hierarchy, not a dualistic prize with the souls of men as a contested prize between God and Satan. If you doubt that, re-read the various creation accounts and then the Book of Job.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Well, the context of this entire chapter is about the promise to the saints, or those that are "in Christ" being granted immortality with the much talked about "glorified bodies", and for them, death being swallowed up in victory as a result. Reading the whole chapter in context, honest eyes will see nothing inclusive about this. It doesn't say anything about those not in Christ receiving immortal bodies, but only those in Christ. For those who are not in Christ whose names are found in the book of life after the judgement, they will be granted access to the tree of life in new Jerusalem, all others get sent into the Lake of Fire.

(1 Corinthians 15:15-23) "Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. [16] For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: [17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. [18] Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. [19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. [20] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. [21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. [22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming."

The reward for those not in Christ found in the book of life:

(Revelation 21:24-27) "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. [25] And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. [26] And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. [27] And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life."

(Revelation 22:1-3) "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. [2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. [3] And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"

As to your last question about the Lake of Fire giving up the dead, well, at no point does it ever state that the lake of fire is giving up anything, but only about what gets thrown into it, never to return, Satan and his angels being among them. If you want to believe that Satan of all creatures will see the light of day in the new heaven and earth, I have a bridge I am more than willing to sell to you for pennies on the dollar. 😀

Context is too often pretext, and one chapter of context is never enough. Try this:

GENESIS


18:18 all the nations of the earth will be blessed

28:14 all the families of the earth will be blessed


NUMBERS

16:22 the God of the spirits of all flesh


I KINGS

8:43 all the people of the earth will come to know and fear you, just as your own people Israel do.


PSALMS

46:10 "I will be honored by every nation. I will be honored throughout the world."

65:2 O you who hear prayer, to you shall all flesh come.

86:9 All the nations you made will come and bow before you, Lord; they will praise your holy name.

138:4 O Jehovah, all kings of earth confess Thee, When they have heard the sayings of Thy mouth.


ISAIAH

11:9 Nothing will hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain, for as the waters fill the sea, so the earth will be filled with people who know the LORD.

52:10 The LORD will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.

52:15 Kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they understand.

61:11 or as the earth brings forth its bud, and as the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord Yahweh will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.

65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, to a nation that was not called by my name.

66:18 it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

66:23 all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.


LAMENTATIONS

3:31-32 For the Lord will not cast off for ever: but though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.

(NLT)- For no one is abandoned by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he also shows compassion because of the greatness of his unfailing love.


DANIEL

7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

7:27 ..the Most High. His kingdom will last forever, and all rulers will serve and obey him."


MICAH

4:1-5 ..he will teach us his ways,
and we will walk in his paths."
For the LORD's teaching will go out from Zion;
his word will go out from Jerusalem.
The LORD will mediate between peoples
and will settle disputes between strong nations far away.
They will hammer their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will no longer fight against nation,
nor train for war anymore.
Everyone will live in peace and prosperity,
enjoying their own grapevines and fig trees,
for there will be nothing to fear.


HABAKKUK

2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea





MATTHEW

20:8-15 That evening he told the foreman to call the workers in and pay them, beginning with the last workers first. When those hired at five o'clock were paid, each received a full day's wage. When those hired first came to get their pay, they assumed they would receive more. But they, too, were paid a day's wage. When they received their pay, they protested to the owner, 'Those people worked only one hour, and yet you've paid them just as much as you paid us who worked all day in the scorching heat.'
"He answered one of them, 'Friend, I haven't been unfair! Didn't you agree to work all day for the usual wage? Take your money and go. I wanted to pay this last worker the same as you. Is it against the law for me to do what I want with my money? Should you be jealous because I am kind to others?'


LUKE

2:10 but the angel reassured them. "Don't be afraid!" he said. "I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people.

2:14 Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"

3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.'

9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them

19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost."

20:38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him."


JOHN

1:29 "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

3:17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.

4:42 Now we believe, not just because of what you told us, but because we have heard him ourselves. Now we know that he is indeed the Savior of the world."

6:37 those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

6:39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. *John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands

6:45 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

12:32 And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw (Greek, literal, DRAG) everyone to myself."

12:47 I will not judge those who hear me but don't obey me, for I have come to save the world and not to judge it.


ACTS

3:21 For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.

3:25-26 You are the children of those prophets, and you are included in the covenant God promised to your ancestors. For God said to Abraham, 'Through your descendants[a] all the families on earth will be blessed.'


ROMANS

8:20-22 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but (C)because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

11:15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."

11:32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

15:21 I have been following the plan spoken of in the Scriptures, where it says,
"Those who have never been told about him will see,
and those who have never heard of him will understand"

Continued...

I CORINTHIANS

3:14,5 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.
If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.

15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son Himself also be subject unto Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
15:5
1 Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep; but we shall all be changed


II CORINTHIANS

5:18,19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation,

to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.


GALATIONS

3:8 What's more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you."
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight
He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him
also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

4:13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.


PHILIPPIANS

2:10-11 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

COLOSSIANS

1:20 and through him God reconciled
everything to himself.
He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth
by means of Christ's blood on the cross.

I TIMOTHY

1:15 This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"—

2:4-6 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.


HEBREWS

2:9 Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

2:17 so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.

8:11,12And they will not need to teach their neighbors,
nor will they need to teach their relatives,[d]
saying, 'You should know the LORD.'
For everyone, from the least to the greatest,
will know me already.
And I will forgive their wickedness,
and I will never again remember their sins

9:26 else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

10:10 For God's will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.

10:17 then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more."


I PETER

3:18-20 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,
in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach,
who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah -- an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;

II PETER

3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. *(John 13:3)


I JOHN

2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.

3:5 And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him.

4:10 This is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the payment for our sins.

4:14 Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.


REVELATION

3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

" Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign to the ages of the ages!'


14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—

15:4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
and glorify your name?
For you alone are holy.
All nations will come and worship before you,
for your righteous deeds have been revealed."

20:14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire.

21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

21:5 And the one sitting on the throne said, "Look, I am making everything new!" And then he said to me, "Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true."

22:2 On each side of the river grew a tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, with a fresh crop each month. The leaves were used for medicine to heal the nations.

22:3 No longer will there be a curse upon anything.

22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let anyone who hears this say, "Come." Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life.

Dcopymope: Having put more than two years of my life into research on this subject, and having written a 240+ page book on the deconstruction of "hell," be aware that I can answer any and all objections you may have to UR, unless you have something really original.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

🤷........Well I'd gather that all that experience and knowledge, and book learning isn't doing much for you since you felt the need to be asking the questions you asked to begin with, unless you started this thread just to have a discussion or an excuse to argue ad infinitum.

I am here to dispel the fear of Hell from the hearts and minds of men. Perhaps you can tell me why you are so dismissive of evidence that God is both willing and able to save all - it should be good news to you, unless Hell is your god...or at least a spiritual stronghold.

#1 The retards who wrote da Bible weren't familiar with or educated about the black holes shown to them in their drug induced religious stupors


#2 The retards who wrote da Bible weren't familiar with or educated about the black holes shown to them in their drug induced religious stupors

#3 The retards who wrote da Bible weren't familiar with or educated about the black holes shown to them in their drug induced religious stupors

originally posted by: AnodeOrCathode
#1 The retards who wrote da Bible weren't familiar with or educated about the black holes shown to them in their drug induced religious stupors


#2 The retards who wrote da Bible weren't familiar with or educated about the black holes shown to them in their drug induced religious stupors

#3 The retards who wrote da Bible weren't familiar with or educated about the black holes shown to them in their drug induced religious stupors

Your post is hardly worth a reply. You could not possibly know anything you assert, and black holes are theoretical constructs.

In Puerto Rico, Where I Was Born, We All Speak 'Spanish.' Thus... We Pronounce Many Things Differently. For Example... Hell Is Pronounced "El."
This Is Where We Go, Or Better Said: 'To Whom We Go [To Face]' After Our Trangressions Against A Blameless Soul Result In The Death Of This Blameless Soul. Through Works And Faith... He Is Risen. There We Meet Him To See This So-Called Damnation. In Spanish... We Pronounce It 'Dominado'. A Singular Construct And Derivative Of The Word 'Damned', Which Translates As 'Dominated'. We Must Inevitably Stand Alone And Literally Face This Risen Lord To Answer For Our Individual Transgression(s). None Prevail Against Him.

Context:
You Will Go To Him... And Thus Be Dominated By Him. You Will See That 'What Is Hurtful To You... Do Not Afflict Upon Another' Is A Realization Before Any Other Reality. Remorse Is Essential. And So Is The Offering Of Forgiveness... Which Many Who Bear Hard Hearts Will Not Receive. Hence... Dominated By His Will Which Is All Based On 'Lords And Hosts'.
Each Is Made By The 'Power' Of The Holy Spirit (aka Your Godly Image) Better Known As The All Encompassing Banner Of Your Father. He And His Host Of Angels Will Reign A Terror Much Mightier Than The Wickedness Of Transgression. And These Beings Are All Knowing. No Sin Shall Be Kept From Them. Woe To A Hard Heart. Death Will Be Sought And Not Found. And Life Will Be Sought And Not Found For These Unholy Trangressors.

You Call It 'Myrrh'. But We Pronounce It 'Mira.' aka See (Behold).
The Oil That Ignites The Flame Of Perpetual Damnation. Anoint Yourself With It And Be Thought Wise To Seek The Following:

You Call It 'Gold', But We Pronounce It 'Alde.' The Sulfur That Burns Within The Heart And Body... Made Possible By The Witness And Uncovering Of Such Cruel Trangressors. Alde Means Burning.
You Feel It When Transgression So Vile And Evil Has Been Wrought To You And Yours. This Is A Precious Mettle Which Is Likened To The Highest Price (Gold). It Serves As Richness. For It Is To Be Desired. In Trangressions Of The Ungodly... So Too Are The Mourners Who Seek His Face And His Blessing.
He Delights. And They Shall Have Peace. Blessed Are Those Who Mourn, For They Shall Be Comforted. This In Oppose To The Gold That Is Like Mettle. It Has A Very Very Hard Substance That Only Fire And Brimstone Can Conquer. Woe To His Enemies.

This Is When... What You Call 'Frankencense' Becomes The Aroma Of This Finite Stone.
To Have Seen And Beheld And Endured. We Pronounce It 'Fria En Consciensia' aka The Epitomy Of 'Cold In Conscience'. Beware Of This... For There Shall Be The Hour When Your Transgression(s) Lead To Perpetual Solitude In A Kingdom Where You Are The Dominated By Those Of Grim Cold Conscience.

These Three Mysteries Are Of The Wise Men We Graciously Celebrate On January 6th In Puerto Rico.
They Are Called The Three Kings. And They Have A Mighty Host Themselves. Not Just Myrrh, Gold, And Frankencense. When The Boy Jesus Christ Whom We Pronounce 'Esos Cree Esto' Is Slain... His Majestic Faith Will Raise Up The Faithful And Give Unto Them Salvation For Believing His Will And Father. But For Those Who Deceive And Murder... There Is Damnation. Esos Cree Esto Means 'They Believe This'.

The Three Kings Are Of The Star Of Bethlehem.
But That Is Not For Me To Tell.

These Things Have Not Been Kept From You. You Seek Them And Try To Understand Them. But The Ungodly Have No Compassion.

I Am Puerto Rican. And I Will Too Meet The Lord Be He Pleased Or Not. Transgression Is A Mortal Wound. No Soul Will Escape There Time.

Do Not Bandy About A Tale Of Christendom. It Is Shrouded In Faith And Good Works For Those Who Believe In Him. This Is Why It Is A Tale Of Faith. The Pure Of Heart Shall Come And Behold God.

The Others... You Should Pray For.