It Is Time To Get The Mud Back Into The Political Mudpit (Public Comentary)

This thread announcing a change in policy should allow for some public commentary. Please do so here. And if you haven’t read it... It Is Time To Get The Mud Back Into The Political Mudpit

For convenience I have added a copy of the text here.

As staff we see many complaints and laments that ATS has become too political. And while that may be a topic for debate, what is noticeable is that there is far too much political derision in the form of mudslinging outside the Mudpit. This is a situation that is well within the ability of the community to correct.

It has been a long standing policy that threads that are too muddy to remain outside the Political Mudpit are trashed rather than moved to encourage members to only create such threads within the confines of the Mudpit. That policy will not change. What will change is the increased removal of posts that degrade otherwise perfectly fine threads and the strong possibility of losing posting privileges on ATS for the continuous disregard of our community policy

To be perfectly clear, the Political Mudpit has relaxed rules for politically motivated postings. It was never intended to be a playground for complete disrespect for fellow members personally. As always, play the ball not the player. So yes, there will be an uptick in posts removed for Manners violations within the Mudpit as well.

What the staff needs from everyone is to be more thoughtful and less careless with posting habits. Treat one another with the respect they deserve. Alert but do not respond to problematic posts. Start political threads that you think will go downhill quickly in the Mudpit. Best to be safe than sorry.

This is not some new thing dreamed up by staff. It was stated in the forum guidelines when the Mudpit was opened and even reaffirmed in the next post. And this little gem from 2008 from an owner no less, set some to a whole different way of thinking of politics.

Yes, this will take effort from everyone. No, not everyone will help. But it is believed that the reward for doing so will become very apparent quickly.

What if the OP doesn't participate in the mudslinging in other forums? Do you still close their thread due to other posters unwillingness to follow the rules ATS has set?

a reply to: Ahabstar

I think this is positive and will encourage constructive conversations.

The only thing that had me thinking is why does someone have to post in the mudpit just because they think it might get heated? If the OP intends to have a good discussion about a topic rather than it devolving into bickering, it should be up to the personal responsibility of members to know what forum they're in. I understand it, and know that mods surely have one hell of a job trying to maintain decorum.... Just kind of thinking out loud.

Either way, cheers to the mods for this revived direction.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

What will change is the increased removal of posts that degrade otherwise perfectly fine threads

And you are right. Far too many times I scroll up to double check that I am in the Pit before giving a flippant reply. And sometimes will check again before hItting send.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Thread closures sometimes happen to allow a cooling off period so a staffer doesn’t spend an hour Swiss-cheesing a thread later. Some are beyond hope of repair and remain closed or trashed. Keep in mind that even Administrators do not make unilateral decisions in a vacuum. Even when an obvious troll is obvious.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: CriticalStinker

What will change is the increased removal of posts that degrade otherwise perfectly fine threads

And you are right. Far too many times I scroll up to double check that I am in the Pit before giving a flippant reply. And sometimes will check again before hItting send.

I completely get it. I've just personally been straying away from mudpit for the most part as it's rare I ever see anyone really trying to get something out of it other than trying to dunk on one another (something I've certainly been guilty of, but I'm trying to stray away from).

Either way, like I said, I think this is a good thing. I just hope that people will understand and respect the wishes of the staff and owners on what is trying to be achieved here. The mudpit will still be there for those who like to get a little dirty.... But many people like to start a thread with the hopes people will have meaningful discourse about the nuances behind the topic, and not just a pick a side and start the volleys.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

One of the first questions is does the Mudpit have a purpose? I certainly think that it does and that some very serious debates can happen within it. But participation comes with the risk that your political core beliefs might be disregarded and even outright disrespected. But that doesn’t make you or them a bad person.

In other political forums, such checking into the boards hockey-style isn’t supposed to happen. This announcement is to let people know that it isn’t going to continue. Many people will read it as an sympathetic appeal to emotion...read it again, because it is actually a statement of fact just written to appear that way.

a reply to: Ahabstar This is a good thing. I've been reduced to lurker status because everywhere I go it's always "Democrats are commies or Orange man bad." In the mudpit I expect it. I don't like to see it in the UFO or ancient civilization boards. I hope everyone heeds the warning and helps get ATS back on track.

a reply to: Ahabstar

One of the first questions is does the Mudpit have a purpose? I certainly think that it does and that some very serious debates can happen within it. But participation comes with the risk that your political core beliefs might be disregarded and even outright disrespected. But that doesn’t make you or them a bad person.

Agreed, and I think the mudpit's energy is kind of drawn from the current political environment we're in. And to be honest, it's not really in good shape. I've been trying to take a break from politics (the more partisan ones, I've been trying to keep up with current events).... But I agree the mudpit can have less constrictions for more honesty as long as people are trying to do so to find more knowledge.

Many people will read it as an sympathetic appeal to emotion...read it again, because it is actually a statement of fact just written to appear that way.

Personally I see it as giving people options, and range of quality. People can decide to go into a forum where the focus is on the topic and topic only.... And if you think that there is a topic some gloves are going to have to come off, and there is no dancing around the elephant in the room, there is an alternative.

It's not just political insulting in other forums besides the mudpit. The insulting has become generic in all forums. Snarky name calling and ugly memes are everywhere....it seems that insulting has become a competition sport among a clique of members...there's also a negative side.

a reply to: Ahabstar


Ummm...well...I've already reigned back on commenting in political threads...no minds are ever changed...and reinforcing stereotypes gets blasé after a spell...

However...I do like to...banter...
You know...shuck and jive with the peeps in a harmless display of jovial comradery...

The Critically stinking one whom you've been chatting with...can attest to that...as we rib one another in a no harm no foul kind of brinkmanship...

Hopefully your not going to start gigging overly much for that...or for harmless trollery...

Cause...then...why...I might have to stop posting entirely...if there's no room for emo on the boards...

Oh well...shuffles off to mind his own business...by his-self...cause no-one wants to have any fun anymore...

Sniff...









YouSir

a reply to: olaru12

Which has also been noticed. And the consensus was the muddy footprints left some pretty ugly marks that encouraged others not to wipe their feet at the door either. Tackle the hard one head on and the other should be much easier.

And really that is what it comes down to, breaking bad habits that even I admit I am guilty of as well. You should read the posts that I don’t post for being too bad. But then again, it’s best that no one can.

originally posted by: olaru12
It's not just political insulting in other forums besides the mudpit. The insulting has become generic in all forums. Snarky name calling and ugly memes are everywhere....it seems that insulting has become a competition sport among a clique of members...there's also a negative side.

Ummm...personally...I think that those that see things as you've just described...are Waaaay too uptight...and just need to chillax...

When your having a few cold ones at the barbeque...and the snarky banter makes it's rounds...do you or they take it too seriously...or does everyone enjoy the casual ribbing...?

Frankly...if that's too much...then never invite me over for a few cold ones...cause being too serious is just all kinds of non fun...

But I wouldn't mind having a few cold ones with you or anyone else on this site...cause at the end of the day...there's not a one of you I dislike...or wouldn't invite over for some good food...and good drink...and good partaking...








YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

Have I ever not gave you a ribbing when the opportunity presented itself? Do I not do it in a Bill Murray voice in my head because I can do a pretty good Bill Murray? But YouSir, You. Sir. know there are forums that cater to frivolities as well such as Chit-Chat and Jokes.

There is even a forum for Urban Legends that is regrettably sorely lacking in good old fashioned creepy goodness. A thread on the various Goatman legends around the US would be wonderful.

a reply to: YouSir

Haha, I can certainly attest to what you speak of.

And often times, the serious region of my brain is often non functioning, or jolting back and forth with no rhyme or reason (probably a self inflicted wound).

Usually the regulars can spot who means so with ill intent, or who likes to have fun like children in adult bodies.

Hell, humor and sarcasm can often lift layers of the onion other methods cannot (seeing as I can't waterboard people over the internet).

The vast majority of us here on ATS should have no problem with this as civility and decorum have been part of the ATS way since before I joined. At the end of the day, we are all Citizen's of our respective countries and while my ongoing comments are US centric the principals apply to each of us as humans, and yes members of ATS

As we move into Social Medias Adolescent phase we are faced with a variety of issues regarding its use and we have seen that play out here in the “Mud Pit”.

Social Media is not just about the technology, its about the biochemistry as well. The tiny little surges of Dopamine we get when we fire off a text, send that cute cat video, or engage in a no holds bar, hit and run discussion all release Dopamine. The These Dopamine “Micro Transactions” can and do become addictive, and we see this play out here especially in the pit. Also at play are the unpredictable nature of the rewards which means we are constantly refreshing to see if we got that like or star, or flag, or better yet a response that will keep the Dopamine party going. Its classic Skinnerian Conditioning

Dopamine is a neurotransmitter (it has other functions as well) with food, exercise, love, gambling, and drugs. Anything that provides excitement. In the case of social media, each time you get a like, or recognition, you get that little hit. When you don’t, you crave it more. It's really a classic addiction cycle.


This desire to get our fix results in:

From thread titles that clearly serve to do nothing but outrage
Ad Hom style attacks in thread
Just about every fallacy of logic to get a response no matter how outrageous
Desperate for more, the polarization spills out of the pit and into other forums

Like a junkie we are looking to go from fix to fix rather that really have a conversation about the topic at hand.

Outside entities know the physiology and the psychology of Social Media and have weaponized it. From election interference, paid posters, to fake stories, to viral quotes that never happened, Once the mantle is picked up, billions of Dopamine addicts spread it far and wide with little regard for the truth.

We speak of Government Mind Control, and the like here in a few of the forums. The reality is its here and it's our social media systems.

ATS members are a cut above in terms of intelligence, passion, commitment, and the like. We think outside the box, not get in and seal it up. But as with most the allure of a Dopamine hit one sentence and click away is a pattern that we need to change. It’s never easy to change a pattern, but in the case of Politics, we simply must arise above, otherwise we are doomed to simply become a mindless mob holding up a sign that reads

“Will Ad hominem attack for Dopamine”

originally posted by: FredT
“Will Ad hominem attack for Dopamine”

Can I steal that for my signature?

a reply to: Ahabstar


Ummm...nah...you guys have been good to me...even when I've been the demon bad seed...who needed an exorcism...

I have long striven to not take myself too seriously...do you know how much it hurts...when family member's and others call you a Mr. know it all...deride you simply because you love knowledge and curiosity and logic...and want to share what you discern...want to light that spark of comprehension in their eyes as well...

It cuts right to the quick...

Then when you do share...finally...on a web site that you've discovered...in a forum of strangers...and then are told there's no place for your thoughts...your culminant wonder to find expression...

That cuts to the quick as well...

So then you no longer share there...instead you wander out into the other boards and try to find some connection...and build a small and simplistic reputation for...what...?

For trollery...because banality reigns there...and you want to at least lighten the sour out of over serious consideration...

Perhaps...having been chased from the only place where you found relevance...it should have been enough of a sign that being welcome for having unconcealed conversations from the core...was actually unwelcome...Maybe I should have gone then...and I did for a long span...

I dunno man...you all need to keep the faith as you see fit...if there's no place for my kind within that context...as was stated before...within that other context...then that too is good...







YouSir

a reply to: CriticalStinker


Ummm...that's only true...if one doesn't...like...being waterboarded...

Me...likey...








YouSir

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: FredT
“Will Ad hominem attack for Dopamine”

Can I steal that for my signature?

Yes, but for authenticity you need to add 'God Bless"