musings on bigfoot's elusiveness

a reply to: reject

Apropos of nothing in particular, that makes me think of many instances referencing the "underworld" in various world mythologies, etc. in general as well as specifically the Delphic Oracle that was said to inhale vapors in the cave/shine to Apollo.

Was it the Hopi whose legends say they came up from under the earth at the beginning of their civilisation?

I digress.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Just like bears, they could just be finding it easier to eat our leavings than actually hunt for food. What sounds better a dead, rotting rabbit, or some half eaten pizza some one tossed out?

There's also the possibility that they are also migrating further south than normal. Bears and wolverines seem to be doing that more and more this year. So why not sasquatches?


a reply to: Gryphon66

Not to mention the Shaver Mysteries, and all the stories of oddities surrounding Mt Shasta in California. Then you have all the weirdness with that cult that Epstein was part of, and how their junk was all underground (reportedly that is).

a reply to: Guyfriday

Also, a population boom could result in a higher number of unattached males. Based on reports, these seem to be more inquisitive/interactive with H. Sapiens by and large.

IF Squatch society is based on tribal structure with an Alpha, etc. Again, according to some reports.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Primates gotta mate. Sasquatches could just be hunting and expanding their territories into our own. There's a thought; imagine inter-city green spaces becoming protected sasquatch mating zones.

a reply to: Guyfriday

Even though I'm fairly sure that some of them predate on us, I'm horrified personally by the idea of them becoming less cautious around H. Sapiens. We can ask the Neanderthals and Denisovans and the little guys on Flores why.

Well, as someone who had a sighting in Colorado near our mountain home at the time. There were probably 40 or more people who were pulled over and watching the bigfoot who ended up running across open area of the mountain faster than an elk. If you ever seen an elk up close you know that is fast. There is no water there for them to hide in so this part of your theory does not fly.

There is also a famous video from the area of a wildlife guy who was also there who did a test to see how much weight it would take to make the prints found... he had the plaster cast and made frame and started putting on sand bags and it ended up over 400 pounds, i don't remember exact amount.

As for the smell, well, i guess you never hunted wild animals lol... they don't bath, their fur is full of dirt, oils, grime, #, urine, pheromones, all of which makes them smell, well, like skunks or wet dogs or worse lol... let your dog out in the rain and give a good whiff when they come back inside.. same principal...

As for why they have not been found, well, first, they have... but you don't think they are going to tell or show you do you lol... it is like them showing you all the bones of the ancient giant's from around the world... why, well that one is easy.. they prove the bible and disprove evolution, you can't have genetically different tribes of giants in the evolutionary chain lol... second, there just is not that many of them and they are generally in terrain that very very few people venture...

if you bury your dead in a wilderness, do you think anyone would know, not unless they actually built a mall and found the bones lol... again, if you ever hunted you would also know you can leave bone and carcass and hide and come back in a day or two and there will be nothing left, all gone... eaten buy every scurry little animal and vulture in the woods.. even the pretty little birds chirping in your back yard are eating it lol...

So no, it is not hard to actually see how and why most of them have never been found...

a reply to: dlbott

I remember the footprint/ weight ratio video.
OMG! that was like a million years ago. (Smile) Nice to see another "oldster" who's versed in what's already been tried in bigfootery.

The cave-system idea has been around forever it seems like. No doubt some do use them, but what troubles me is that it's too easy an answer. Currently between the theories that our own Gov't has massive tunnels and underground facilities, Bigfoot lives underground, UFO's have underground bases it's starting to look like "underground" is a fairly busy place!!!

It's a fair assumption that Bigfoot uses caves, but the entire population? Not likely.
There are just too many reports of them using abandoned isolated homes/outbuildings to ignore.

The "pet theory" some us tossed around 15 years ago was that we're seeing them more because much like us their culture is also facing the issue of the younger generations going wayward. The "Youngers" much like our youth have found out there is little consequence to doing whatever they want too. Keeping in mind they watch everything, they've seen everything from Returning Veterans living in the woods to Grow-OP's to Hippies and their communes to our kids Keg/Drug parties.

Back in the day it was heretical to suggest Bigfoot used buckets, lighters, the odd bit of clothing.
However even back then (1990's) the fact was as humans we're sloppy and leave stuff laying around. We are also watched so it's not improbable some of our things have been liberated and used. Good Lord! A Hoarder's property is much like the kid's science museum for them!!!

I also don't ascribe to the Bigfoot as cannibal theory, anymore than I would say all humans are. It's aberrant and unusual
behavior for both species.

For those who ascribe to Paulides interpretation of the missing I will counter with Tim (Coonbo)Bakers podcasts. He's done several with first responder accounts of Bigfoot killing humans and leaving them in folded up/mutilated stuffed back into their own vehicles and their weapons destroyed. There were also joggers torn limb from limb up in Vancouver a ways back that was blamed on wild dogs despite any evidence proving it was dogs.
The Cops up there mustn't of gotten the memo it's better to blame it on bear attacks.

My point being if a Bigfoot wants you dead you get dead on the spot. Not lured away.

I won't argue that people ARE going missing in National Parks and other wilderness area's but I'm doubtful it can ALL be blamed on Biggie. There's just too much other weirdness going on in addition to the fact people are remarkably ignorant, unprepared for the situations plus regular predators to be anywhere near comfortable in even thinking Bigfoot is solely responsible. Like the Cave theory it's just too easy an answer.

There seems to be a correllation between the concentrations of Sasquatch experiences and some cave systems but that also correlates to mountainous regions, LOL.

I believe that Sasquatch are probably more free-range than not and only have temporary camps or nests. Sometimes that's underground. I had initially toyed with the idea that cave systems provided a means of covert transportation over long distances. I imagine that they are highly specialized to the particular environment that they range in, and are probably aware and able to access areas that are simply unreachable by humans in normal conditions.

The sheer fact that they are present alongside us, however, provides evidence that the typical mundane worldview is woefully inadequate to describe our actual world.

Sasquatch predation on H. Sapiens is probably rare and opportunistic; we're too irritating en masse.

a reply to: Caver78

Yea, kinda showed my age with the weight ratio video huh lol.. that sighting was a long while ago. lol... I agree, I don't think they are living in caves lol.. while living up there in mountains we had many animals up there... even a pair of mated cougars... here the thing, we knew they were there but you would only see evidence and very rarely rarely see them.. only if they wanted you to.

it is the same with most wild animals, especially the predators.. bigfoot is obviously eating both meat and plants, an opportunist.. it is the only way they could survive... but it is like they are smart... for instance there are some bears that are so smart you only know they were in your garbage because it was strewn all over the place... they could open almost any device lol...

I also agree having seen one move, if they wanted you dead you would be dead...

You mentioned underground bases.. cities some of them, they are real... Denver being the largest.. all those years ago had a friend who was on one of the rotating crews. Crazy how they built that place. They were brought in blind folded and in teams... only worked on parts of project and were not allowed to speak to anyone else.. all compartmentalized... no crew worked more than one project and often did not even see one to completion, constantly rotated people in and out... He was concrete guy and what he did see he said was amazing... i can remember being in that airport in the beginning with all the creepy paintings and art and sculptures.. man they were scary chit lol...

I did watch the missing documentaries... it was allot of BS.. i mean I don't deny that there are allot of missing in this country.. but having lived in some of these remote area's they made it seem like there was an alien or bigfoot around every rock and explained it... when in fact the most seasoned person can have one momentary lapse and be turned around and lost or one trip away from broken leg, sprained ankle etc and literal death... and anyone who has hunted and left carcass and come back in a day or two and found all remains gone will know it is not hard for there to be nothing left at all. I just don't think you say it is all aliens or bigfoot etc... a large number is literally foul play and a large number is just lost and bad luck.. the rest, are the unexplained...

Now if I were a bigfoot and there was this big arse cave nearby that no one every goes in would i live there, u betcha lol.. but where we were in the mountains, no caves, and no water lol.... now down here n the swamps, we got some big ones living here and they do love water, but uh, no gills lol....

a reply to: Caver78

oh forgot, did you see that "who killed hitler" movie... not many people caught the meaning of that movie and what the bigfoot was... poses another interesting question.... hope you saw it and understand what i mean....

a reply to: dlbott

Unfortunately that one I apparently missed.


It really helps in this arena to know the backgrounds of all the players, cause credibility/honesty is such a rare commodity. It was nice to see you seem to be well versed! Also rare.

From the Koffman data available it reinforced for me what others have said which is that Biggie is an omnivore and myself not being well versed in Primate Studies her conclusion that they need very much less to survive on than people in the US insist on saying they do. With no concrete evidence I might add!

One of the coincidences that I noted here and had verified by another amateur sleuth was a good "guesstimate" of their temporary territory based on roadkill. Here in the late summer/fall the roads are like raccoon/possum/squirrel/groundhog "massacre highway". LOL!! What struck me as wildly odd was the closer to where they'd been seen, roadkill was totally absent. Then we got more observant and noticed daily roadkill was disappearing overnight.

For someone like me who insists on swerving cause I'm not going to kill something twice, it was very noticeable. So I talked a fellow sleuther into driving around and checking it out an they noticed the very same thing. Inside "the area" not a body to be found, outside of it , it was the regular "blood on the highways" of the regular critters. Loads of roadkill.

Now this was just us thinking it was seriously odd, but vultures and crows generally don't stick to defined area's when cleaning up the bodies. Pretty sure 'yotes don't either. Because I work like everyone else, no I didn't document every missing body. To us it was just one of those "stick a pin in this" an see if anyone else ever notices/reports the same thing. The only concrete conclusion I came to was "OMG these ones are too lazy to even hunt!!!"

But I will add at the same time the closest county park's geese & duck population disappeared. All of this was more unusual in that the county park and municipal authorities neither collect roadkill or had a active waterfowl removal plan.

Oh, and for the squeamish and now seriously grossed out readers it helps to remember that many times with possums altho the female got hit her kids are still alive in the pouch, so hot meal for Biggie.

The only way I want to meet a bigfoot's in a zoo.

Their testosterone would be very interesting from a medical standpoint though.

a reply to: Caver78

Yea, the actual movie name was, "the man who killed hitler and then bigfoot", this one is worth the rent. Especially at the subtle implications that most people just simply missed. Hope to hear back from you once you see it... the muses are interesting in the very least. I am not saying they are true, just interesting.

Yea, i have to agree, especially having the sighting in high arid Colorado, that they have to be omnivore. Simply not enough to sustain them otherwise. I don't subscribe to a theory of any sort of migration, other than that of what would be natural. Say from a tiger as example. At a certain age they must go and strike out on their own and carve out territory that can sustain them and mates. This applies across most animals, especially predators and omnivore.

The roadkill is interesting. What area of country are you in... we now live down here in lousyana and we have our share of the big fellows here... there is lots of forest and lots of swamp. There is no shortage of food here. The roadkill theory is interesting however. Lots of critters here and some that allot of people will argue don't even exist.

For example, was over watching a mine field, hidden in stand of bamboo on a creek. All of the sudden you hear a scream like a woman screaming in the night. Blood curdling and almost on top of me and the squad on the other side of the creek. I put on night vision and to my left stepped out a black panther that walked right in front of me and entered the thick woods and brush on the other side of the mine field and creek. Men came running out of the woods lol. You never seen grown soldiers so scared lol...

But, road kill, or any kill for that matter, is gone, it literally will not be there even a day. Part of this is Turkey vultures and possum and every other little critter and yes coyote. I watched a group of Turkey vultures devour and carry off every trace of still born horse in a day. No trace.. course they had help from the other critters when I was not observing.

But, the roadkill does pose an interesting point and a great free food source. One thing I have learned is animals are way smarter than we give them credit for. They learn and know where every food source is and they can smell that carcass from miles away. I can see them learning to patrol the highways for the free buffet.

I have a Colorado mountain Curr, that showed up on my door as a puppy during hurricane... God send.... when she was little she made me get up and let her out and immediately jumped on a possum in the back yard that was bigger than she was... some how she had it by the back of neck and was shaking it.. i was on the way when all of the sudden there were babies flying through the air everywhere lol... I have never seen anything like it... they had been riding on her back lol.. there were like 10 of em lol... the possum got away but I ended up picking up babies all over the yard lol... lucky we have a real good rehab lady in the area lol... nothing to do with biggie but funny story lol..

It would be an interesting experiment to stake out a fresh large roadkill and actually see what and how it is disappearing....

originally posted by: dlbott
a reply to: Caver78

Yea, the actual movie name was, "the man who killed hitler and then bigfoot", this one is worth the rent. Especially at the subtle implications that most people just simply missed. Hope to hear back from you once you see it... the muses are interesting in the very least.

I waited a bit to see if anyone jumped on the thread.

I've watched the movie several times and thought that it was not only well made, but the storyline was unlike any I had watched before. And Sam Elliott does a great job of acting this character. I've always liked him anyway from back in the days of playing alongside Tom Selleck in the Louis L'Amour Westerns of the Sackett family adventures.

AnyWho.. It's definitely not a cookie-cutter movie (Translation: a copy of some other movie theme). This is very original in it's content (I thought). It was a featured Official Selection at several small film festivals including 'Fantasia' and 'Frightfest London'.

Here's the trailer;

a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

I think it's somewhere along the lines of " Abraham Lincoln, vampire Slayer."

Anyway, what do you people think about Justin Smeja?

Is he just a very good actor?

originally posted by: reject
a reply to: JohnnyAnonymous

I think it's somewhere along the lines of " Abraham Lincoln, vampire Slayer."

Anyway, what do you people think about Justin Smeja?

Is he just a very good actor?

Disagree on that film being compared to this one.


In regards to Mr. Smeja, if he's acting then it's being done fairly convincingly. I can't really add anymore as I've not looked at his case/report/history etc.

a reply to: reject

ROFL!
You did not just go "there"!!! Hahahahahaha

Here's the thing about that time period in bigfootery. Everyone wanted their 15 min of fame, to cash in, to be known as the "go too expert". It was very much like the 1849 Gold Rush. There were a plethora of overnight sensations plus regular people emboldened to come forward with their stories.

Smeja was a known poacher with prior complains made to the CA game commission. He also never came up with any credible biological proof of a body. Pretty odd for someone who had freezers full of other of his kills. Think what you want, but he was dismissed as just another glory hunter by experiencers and skeptics alike. One fact to consider is that getting those two factions to agree on anything is astounding.

Something else to keep at the forefront of your thoughts is this. "IF" someone gets an actual biological sample why do they NOT also do the research to get it into the hands of credible labs, proper chain of evidence using standard collection techniques doing all the things it will need to stand up to rigorous scientific challenges?

The worn out excuses of "it's expensive" , "No Lab would take it" etcetera are bull-hockey.
Off topic, BUT, it's going to take someone with the academic chops to get any collected samples thru the system. I'm probably saying this wrong, but you're going to need someone like a Anthropologist in good standing to take this step by step with the correct methodological studies as back up, something everyone is frankly too impatient to accept.

a reply to: dlbott

Check your PM

originally posted by: dlbott
At a certain age they must go and strike out on their own and carve out territory that can sustain them and mates.

Yes, it could be that the Biggies that are seen in populated areas are the coming of age males who have to go out and see the world and find their place in it.

By the end of the 1970's, Bigfoot family groups had only been seen 19 times. Out of those 19 groups, 22 were juveniles. Throughout history, most of the ones seen seem to be single. Family groups are rare except for chimps and maybe orangs.

Interestingly, springtime is the season with the least sightings. That probably is because that is when they are making babies. That would be when the males stay with the mother and child until it is healthy enough to survive. Of course being born in the spring gives them the most time to grow and become strong before the winter sets in. It could also be that we have more "sightings" in winter because it is easier to see the tracks they leave.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Not the video I was looking for, but interesting just the same. Have a happy vacation.

www.youtube.com...