The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by XPhiles

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
lame argument at best. did you actually read the whole post by Dr. brown ?

Brown concludes the BH time travel idea is impossible on a few levels. 1) the size the devise would have to be. 2) the cooling issue. 3) what happens when a BH is near earths gravitational pull. Can you challenge him on any of these points ? I'd love to see you try. He never says time travel is impossible, just titors story.

lame argument .HA ..I was stating a FACT that Dr.Brown message on Titor is only opinion based by his own knowledge.
Why would I want to challenge Dr.Brown's own BH hypothesis, it is not scientific theory or fact.

You just need to let go man... Physicist are not the smartest people in the world. So what, Dr Brown knows how an electron behaves, that does not prove a thing does it. I mean come on, my 10 year old cousin knows what a electron is, millions of people know what a electron is. It is silly for you to question other people "do you know what a electron is" that is just plan silly.... It almost sounds like you just discovered what a electron is lol. For Real......

Bring out all his points one by one if you want, it will be doomed for failure.

Face the facts...... Dr.Brown can not prove Titor is a hoax.

ok philes, you asked for it. Please consider this entire passage from the good doctor about electrons, and specifically let me know where he is incorrect, supporting evidence would be appreciated

1) For example, he asserts that his black holes are "the size of an
> electron" in several places.
>
> Say what?
>
> An electron is an elementary particle. Elementary particles in
> physics have no structure -- they are not composite particle bound
> together with some additional force and hence possessed of a spectral
> structure. Contrast the electron with the atom (made up of nucleus and
> electrons; we ARE part of the structure inherent to this system:-).
> With the nucleus (neutrons and protons, glued with nuclear force,
> plenty of shell structure:-). With the proton and the neutron
> (elementary quarks glued with gluons, and yes, there is structure in
> the form of an SU(3) particle zoo). In all these cases the particles
> have a "size" consisting of the physical extent of the composite
> particle wavefunction.
>
> An electron or quark is NOT made up (so far as we can tell) of smaller
> particles glued together. As far as we can tell, with very high
> energy collisions, they have no physical extent and are >>truly
> pointlike entities charged) we have to figure out what ADDITIONAL force binds all the
> charge together -- the particle suddenly has a rather large energy
> associated with its binding.
>
> So why say his BH's are the "size of an electron" when there ain't any
> such thing? Why not say they are "1.7 fermi in diameter" or "the size
> of a proton" (same order of magnitude, and this is a number that
> actually exists at least to some approximation). Or just give us the
> mass -- 10^12 kg, for example. Perhaps because there are some
> PROBLEMS with that mass, hmmm.
>
> There is actually a lot of interesting physics associated with the
> notion of e.g. electron size. Without boring you with details, there
> are lovely papers by Dirac, McManus and others concerning radiation
> reaction, preacceleration, electron size/shape in the classical
> regime. However, the most amusing result of all of this in the current
> context is that there IS one (classical) sense in which an electron
> can be assigned a "size" (and another in a quantum sense, but that is
> clearly not what he means here as the BH would be much too large to be
> believable, not that this one IS believable).
>
> If one assumes that the electron is a ball of uniform charge, and that
> the self-energy of all of this charge (bound together with some
> mythical charge-glue for which there isn't a shred of evidence to the
> best of my
> knowledge) is equal to the mass energy, then one gets (ignoring scalar
> factors of order unity and using "latex" to do ascii algebra, hopefully
> fairly clearly):
>
> \frac[ k e^2] [a] = m_e c^2
>
> which can be solved for a, the classical electron radius:
>
> a = \frac[k e^2][m_e c^2] \approx 3 fm
>
> which is not at all coincidentally the same order as the size of the
> proton or the nucleus of your choice, which DOES confine a net charge
> of order e with a stronger attractive force but (consequently) has a
> much larger mass. The Schwarzchild radius for the electron mass is
> determined from a very similar computation (again neglecting scalar
> factors order unity)
>
> \frac[ G m_e^2] [r_s] = m_e c^2
>
> or
>
> r_s = \frac[G m_e^2][m_e c^2] = \frac[G m_e][c^2]
>
> which is number so tiny as to be meaningless (order 10^-57 meters,
> smaller than the Planck length and hence it IS meaningless).
>
> An amusing computation: Suppose r_s = 1 fm (somewhat smaller than "an
> electron"). Then m_BH = r_s*c^2/G, right? Plug 'n' chug. On my
> calculator, 10^-15 * 9x10^16/6.67x10^-11 \approx 10^12 kg. Let's see,
> that would be, um, a billion metric tons, the mass of a cube of water
> 1000 meters to the side (as 1000^3 = 10^9 and water conveniently
> masses a metric ton, 10^3 kg per cubic meter. How come nobody in your
> group actually did these simple computations?
>
> His suitcase contains TWO of these? He carried this suitcase on a 67
> Chevy? Man, they must put a hell of a suspension in those babies...
>
> Maybe he meant some other "radius of the electron". Alas that I don't
> know of any, as the electron doesn't have a radius in the first place
> and even the classical radius above is thus a fairly meaningless
> artifact. Still, let's suppose that he (a lay person and
> self-confessed physics idiot) was "confused" and that he meant that
> the BH's in question were around 10^-24 meters in radius, which is what
> I get for BH's that mass >>1

lauchpad, you just wrote a bunch of words....but said absolutely nothing.

1. You failed to show clear definition of what a Waco "like" event is

2. You failed to show the 23 incidents that were in any way like Waco

3. You failed to show how the media is covering these events

4. Yes Titor said things would escalate. The things that were to escalate were supposed to start happening last year. He - not me - said the start of the Civil War would be Waco type events that would happen each month getting worse and worse. Surely 23 months in we would have noticed by now. Around 130 million people die according to Titor. And since the nuke war targets the cities, which according to Titor would be occupied by the Federal forces, that means the vast majority of those 130 million people die in the Civil War. That's the equivilant to 13,000,000 people a year.
Let's say half the people die in the Nuke war, that would mean 65 million people died in the Civil War. That's 6.5 million people. Taking into account that the war would start off slowly and steadily grow worse....you're still talking about thousands of deaths per year. Surely at that pace we would have noticed the deaths by now.

5. What's your fascination with the word "like"
Just went over my post....didn't say "like" once. (I did say "likely" once)

6. Oh yeah, you also failed at your petty attempts at insults.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
lauchpad, you just wrote a bunch of words....but said absolutely nothing.

1. You failed to show clear definition of what a Waco "like" event is

2. You failed to show the 23 incidents that were in any way like Waco

3. You failed to show how the media is covering these events

4. Yes Titor said things would escalate. The things that were to escalate were supposed to start happening last year. He - not me - said the start of the Civil War would be Waco type events that would happen each month getting worse and worse. Surely 23 months in we would have noticed by now. Around 130 million people die according to Titor. And since the nuke war targets the cities, which according to Titor would be occupied by the Federal forces, that means the vast majority of those 130 million people die in the Civil War. That's the equivilant to 13,000,000 people a year.
Let's say half the people die in the Nuke war, that would mean 65 million people died in the Civil War. That's 6.5 million people. Taking into account that the war would start off slowly and steadily grow worse....you're still talking about thousands of deaths per year. Surely at that pace we would have noticed the deaths by now.

5. What's your fascination with the word "like"

Just went over my post....didn't say "like" once. (I did say "likely" once)

6. Oh yeah, you also failed at your petty attempts at insults.

1. I failed to define Waco Like???? No Titor Failed to define it and you keep trying to make the EXACT Waco situation the "WACO LIKE" event Titor talked about. Previvous post still applies.

2. 23 incidents???? Who said anything about 23 incidents? Again- your hard line approach to generallities put forth bu Titor. Previous post STILL applies.

3. I wasn't discussing anything about the media- nor trying to prove anything. How much media coverage of the events in 33 was there. The US citizens largely had zero clue as to the european situation.

4. How many deaths were largely reported 33-39??? Thats six years NOT 11 months! Hind site it was the start of a WW not a little Civil war. How many died post 39 in the 6 remaining years of the war? there you go ecalation. Titor said 05-15 thats ten years for it to escalate and additionally he said something about 2008 being the year it was RECOGNISED. If you cannot grasp the concept of most not recognising it until then- it is kind of pointless to continue any discussion with you what so ever.

another example: directions. I will tell you how to get to Larime Wy from Colorado Springs. Remember Larime is the destination. we are begining in Colorado Springs. We will head to Larime getting closer and closer until most people will recognise (2008)-duh- hey we are in Larime. But everybody should agree our trip (WAR) began in Colorado Springs (2005).

(2005) head North on I25
(2006) go thorough Denver and Ft Collins
(2007) When you get to Cheyenne Wy turn on to i80 heading West
(2008) When you get to the top of the divide you can see Larime in the distance it is the only town on the plain. Exit onto hwy 287 and you are in dwn town Larime WY

[edit on 1-12-2005 by launchpad]

Lets keep things civil fellas....

Just a forewarning, as I see some heated words here....

Originally posted by launchpad
1. I failed to define Waco Like???? No Titor Failed to define it and you keep trying to make the EXACT Waco situation the "WACO LIKE" event Titor talked about. Previvous post still applies.

I guess Titor assumed that when he said "Waco type events" people would understand that to mean Waco type events.
If he was defining something else other than an event on the scale of Waco, then I'm sure he would have said so.
And in not one of my posts did I say it would be exactly like Waco. I said the events would be equivilant or greater than what happened at Waco. Why do I say that? Because Titor said that.

When Titor says Waco type event what immediately comes to your mind?

2. 23 incidents???? Who said anything about 23 incidents? Again- your hard line approach to generallities put forth bu Titor. Previous post STILL applies.

Generalities?
Titor said there would be an event each month. If I said I just ate an apple, does that mean I ate an orange? No it means I ate an apple.

3. I wasn't discussing anything about the media- nor trying to prove anything. How much media coverage of the events in 33 was there. The US citizens largely had zero clue as to the european situation.

Comparing world politics and the media in '33 to now is absolutely ridiculous.
Do you know how many people had access to a television in '33?
Do you know how many people had access to the internet in '33?
Do you know how many members of the media traveling abroad there were in '33?
Do you know how many people even cared about anything abroad in '33? The US was very much an isolationist society.

Hiding a civil war in the most powerful nation on earth is impossible to do in the 21st century.

4. How many deaths were largely reported 33-39??? Thats six years NOT 11 months! Hind site it was the start of a WW not a little Civil war. How many died post 39 in the 6 remaining years of the war? there you go ecalation. Titor said 05-15 thats ten years for it to escalate and additionally he said something about 2008 being the year it was RECOGNISED. If you cannot grasp the concept of most not recognising it until then- it is kind of pointless to continue any discussion with you what so ever.

The war would be four years old in 2008. If anyone still doesn't realize that a civil war is going on then they...well have some form of mental retardation.
This is all in the same paragraph -
Titor:

The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over. The civil war in the United States will start in 2004.

So no people won't just recognize the Civil War in '08 even though it's 4 years old, '08 is when they realize they're at the point of no return.

Titor again:

By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep.

So you're saying that in 2008 people would just wake up one day and realize there's a civil war going on and is right now affecting everyone in the country?
Unless you're in a 4 year comma, that's impossible.

TJW your ignornance on the way the human brain works never ceases to amaze me. you act as though it is impossible for people to slowly realize whats going on.

you think that scienctist just one day wake up and learned quantum physics and all the maths behind it? no they slowly learned by things they took in over the years, then finally came to the conclusions based on everything they have seen. or they finally understand one day the whole idea of this area of physics because they figure out the final part to what they were ignorant to so far.

people dont just suddenly know. its not like one day everyone is walking the streets, wake up next morning and the entire country is in chaos. it doesnt work that way. not usually at least, unless there is some undeniable event (nuke were to go off in jacksonville florida, currently the largest city in the U.S. if i recall. washington d.c., or some other very important city)even then its not all out chaos, the society just dissolves very quickly.

im not tryin to insult you but you mindset is it must be a waco event. waco type events can be seen in a much broader definition. the thing is you can get too specific but keep in mind to general as well.

put it like this, your watching a movie. this movie you see it as very different from other movies, it sets itself appart. you tell your friend and he says "ah that the same as any other movie of its genre." your ask why? say its an action movie. though you found it very different from all other movies he could say "well it had stuff blow up, people died, and its story line was about some guy whos trying to save the day" to you that doesnt apply but in his perspective it does because he has a different view on what an action movie is. your view might give an entire break down of the movie showing the many differences between this movie and others, but he fails to see it because his perspective on "an action movie" would be much different then yours.

neither of us are fully wrong, i simply feel that you want to prove titor wrong based on your definition of a waco type event. this to me holds no use in fighting over.

the thing we should focus on is science. yes dr. brown obviously doesnt agree. ALTHOUGH he doesnt agree this does not mean its fact. i suggest anyone with a math and physics backround check it out. that i feel is the best way to prove, at least to yourself, that he defintately is or isnt a time traveler.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
TJW your ignornance on the way the human brain works never ceases to amaze me. you act as though it is impossible for people to slowly realize whats going on.

You're right. I have too much faith in human intelligence.

you think that scienctist just one day wake up and learned quantum physics and all the maths behind it? no they slowly learned by things they took in over the years, then finally came to the conclusions based on everything they have seen. or they finally understand one day the whole idea of this area of physics because they figure out the final part to what they were ignorant to so far.

people dont just suddenly know. its not like one day everyone is walking the streets, wake up next morning and the entire country is in chaos. it doesnt work that way. not usually at least, unless there is some undeniable event (nuke were to go off in jacksonville florida, currently the largest city in the U.S. if i recall. washington d.c., or some other very important city)even then its not all out chaos, the society just dissolves very quickly.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get out. I'm in complete agreement.

This Civil War should have started last year, and builds up until 2015. By 2008 it's spread across the nation. It's spreads across the most powerful nation on earth in 4 years. There's no way you can not know what's happening.

im not tryin to insult you but you mindset is it must be a waco event. waco type events can be seen in a much broader definition. the thing is you can get too specific but keep in mind to general as well.

I'm using what Titor said and what Titor described. Take this issue up with him

neither of us are fully wrong, i simply feel that you want to prove titor wrong based on your definition of a waco type event. this to me holds no use in fighting over.

That's not what I'm doing at all. Science proves Titor wrong. I don't have to do anything.
I'm just pointing out that the Civil War (as he himself described it) which he predicted to start last year has not occured.
How many more things does Titor have to be wrong about before people realize it was a work of fiction? (real question)

like i said before i dont feel that we can fully say that the science end is wrong till we get more then one biased opinion, even though dr. brown does have a decent science backround, his opinion was obviously biased and could have mislead him into an error. thats all im saying. once you get different people to correspond with this who also have credentials then it would be alot more set in stone. or if some one that could prove it could show all the math and physics behind it then i would ask if a couple physicist could correspond with this persons theories.
im asking if we can get alil more science perspective then just one man.

what im saying is your taking one side, and some one else may take another. you cannot speak for titor. his definition was too unclear and i feel should be totally void from the conversation. yes he did say waco type events, but did not say to that extent or greater. he also didnt say what waco type events mean, and how much they will relate to this event. had he said "it will be just like waco or worse every month till 2008." but see that wouldnt make any sense and i would most definately have to side with you then. i would side with you had he said that because no one would stand for such events to take place for 3-4 years. that would be insanity. but if it were to be a growing thing where by 2008 it was like waco or worse then i would say "ok ima go with the other side" because then not realizing it as the public in a whole till 2008 would make sense.

what im saying is had he been more specific in his wording i would be able to side, but his broad definition leaves me to say this part of the arguement will remain inconclusive till 2008

p.s. i would have to disagree, we arent the most powerful nation on the earth. i believe that would be china. as for covering it up, well dont underestimate the government (no matter how insanely stupid the representatives of it are)

[edit on 1-12-2005 by grimreaper797]

syrinx high priest

You know Titor is a singularitarian therefore Dr.Browns little lesson in electrons is just a lesson and nothing more. Titor speaks about technological progress that changes human history, therefore again current technology is not up to speed to explain away the Titor story. There is really nothing to argue about and nothing more to prove.


As I said before, Why would I want to challenge Dr.Brown's own BH hypothesis, it is not scientific theory or fact.

specifically let me know where he is incorrect, supporting evidence would be appreciated

> His suitcase contains TWO of these? He carried this suitcase on a 67
> Chevy? Man, they must put a hell of a suspension in those babies...

There is no mention of a suitcase in the Titor story? And carrying two of what?

An electron or quark is NOT made up (so far as we can tell) of smaller
> particles glued together. As far as we can tell,.

"As far as we can tell" now is that not a silly answer lol.

> So why say his BH's are the "size of an electron"

John Titor does not go into detail on this. Though....According to Einstein's Relativity (the theory that predicts, and explains most of the features of black holes), there is no lower limit to the size of black holes.

How many PhD's are supporting titor specifically, and have stated they read his posts and think he's legit ? My one is better than your zero.

So now you have Dr.Brown and I have Einstein. Ha

ok enough HA's lol



[edit on 1-12-2005 by XPhiles]

Nice signature ThatsJustWeird:
"And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that ye be not troubled, for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

Though I have another one for you :
"First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.""


To understand the complete picture of John Titor’s second US Civil War, we need to fit all the pieces of the puzzle together. At first glance, one piece may seem to fit somewhere else, or may even not seem to fit at all, but in the end there’s only one place for all pieces which will finish that puzzle.

John Titor has given us many pieces. At first glance, they may seem to contradict themselves, but taken them all together they perfectly tell the story of the world we live in today. A world post 9-11 and a United States Foreign Policy that through its inconsistency and degradation has divided its core as never before and isolated itself from the rest of that post 9-11 world as never before in history.

Regarding the second US Civil War, John Titor has given us many clues:

John Titor
Piece 1:
“I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.”

When mentioning WACO-type events he simply gave us a definition of what WACO stands for. The 3 rules as I have outlined them in a previous post perfectly describe these WACO-type events happening right now. Titor mentioned WACO-type events, meaning the methods of action used upon US civilians, defenseless children and their parents who died a cruel and unnecessary death through the use of a so called ‘non-lethal’ weapon, inflammable tear gas in the final assault on them by their own law enforcement officers. That’s why Titor said:

John Titor
Piece 2:
“Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?”

Pointing to our future, John Titor mentioned these methods of action (as used by law enforcement officers in 1993) on a small concentrated group of people, would be happening to US civilians in general with new ‘non-lethal’ weapons turning out to be quiet lethal.

John Titor
Piece 3:
“However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal. Sometimes I watch your television programs that show SWAT teams using new non-lethal weapons. They usually start out with, "In the future, the army and police will fight its enemies with new weapons systems…" When they use the word "enemy", they're talking about YOU!”

At the time of mentioning this, TASER International introduced the newly developed Taser M26 being 4 times more powerful then its predecessor. Mid 2003 came the X26, offering “even greater stopping power.

As Titor “predicted” these newly developed tasers now used by nearly every officer of the law in this country, have become very lethal to US civilians in general. And worse, a national issue! These taser-related deaths follow the exact criteria that can be applied to the occurrence in WACO, if one takes in account how law enforcement lost its integrity in its role to serve and protect. These “WACO-type” events indeed are “steadily growing worse.”

Seemingly contradictive, at one time John Titor said that we would witness it starting to grow in 2004 and on another in 2005:

John Titor
Piece 4:
“For a few months now, I have bee trying to alert anyone that would listen to the possibility of a civil war in the United States in 2005.”

John Titor
Piece 5:
“There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years.”

John Titor
Piece 6:
“The civil war in the United States will start in 2004.”

John Titor
Piece 7:
“It’s 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant – we all need good critics).”

So is there a contradiction? Not if you are aware that an overwhelming increase of taser-related deaths since 2004 and first reports of these deaths in 2004 and 2005 in the media have made these events a national issue in 2005!
(At this moment of typing my message, another taser-related death occurred. Kevin Dewayne Wright, 39, was on blood pressure medication and an antidepressant. With more then half of the American population on similar medications we can most definitely expect a lot more deaths in our future.)

Only recently in 2004! a number of human and civil rights organizations have begun documenting deaths related to the use of Tasers including the American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International, and the Canadian Police Research Center in Ottawa.

Starting April 2004, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference hosted a monumental press briefing discussing the disturbing occurrence of in-custody deaths across the country. As the SCLC continued to monitor such deaths, they discovered that over the past five years there has been a stark increase in the number of Taser-involved deaths across the country. Recently January 2005, the SCLC released a special report “86 and Counting: America’s Taser Gun Crisis” documenting 86 deaths (including the death of one fetus) that involve the use of a Taser gun from 1999-2005. The report is drawn from a review of newspaper articles, websites, Internet searches, and in-depth reports by the Arizona Republic, American Civil Liberties Union, Amnesty International and others since April 2004. The report documents deaths involving the use of the device as well as incidents where SCLC believes officers abused the use of the device. The report indicates that Taser involved deaths grew from 1 in 1999 to 44 in 2004 which represents an increase of 4000%.

Starting September of 2004, the American Civil Liberties Union released a report that documented 71 reported cases of deaths following taser use since 1999 and a warning of rapidly increasing numbers of taser related deaths as more police departments authorize use of the weapon.

Starting November 2004, Amnesty International released a comprehensive report that documented 70 Taser involved deaths in the United States and Canada.

Starting December of 2004, the Department of Justice also announced that it would begin to study whether or not the Taser device was as safe as is supporters argue.

Recently May 2005, The Arizona Republic, using computer searches, autopsy reports, police reports, media reports and Taser's own records, has identified at least 153 cases in the United States and Canada of death following a police Taser strike since September 1999.

As these organisations continue their research they discover more and more “hidden” cases of Taser involved deaths. How many taser deaths will they discover this year?

In April this year Amnesty International USA announced in that Taser-related deaths in the United States and Canada have hit triple digits growing from 74 in November 2004 to 103. The new number covers June 2001 to March 2005. In the first three months of 2005, there were a reported twice as many Taser-related deaths (13) as there were during the same period in 2004 (six), and as many as there were all year in 2002 (13).

In October this year the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California discovered that Tasers were involved in at least 77 deaths around the country during the past year, 15 of them in northern and central California.

The number of taser related deaths is growing gruesomely. No other “non-lethal” weapon has proven to be as lethal to the common US civilian as the new tasers being used by our own officers of the law, exactly as John Titor “predicted” it would happen.

Though the deadly taser events are covered by the media, John Titor could not specifically tell us if these civil conflicts would be covered by the mass media. Words as “don’t remember a great deal” and “probably” leave us only to speculate, however one can safely assume that this will happen as the US Civil War (or civil conflicts) grows in its intensity.

John Titor
Piece 8:
”I don't remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez.”

Apparently, John Titor also had foreknowledge of other new ‘non-lethal’ weapons being used upon US civilians in general in the future with an even deadlier effect. That’s why he mentioned “a great many "non lethal" weapon systems” and made a reference to the new microwave crowd-control weapon called the “active-denial system” falling under the category “Directed Energy Weapons” (DEW).

John Titor
Piece 9:
“Me: “However, there are a great many ‘non lethal’ weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal.” Anyone for microwave popcorn?”

Interesting is the fact that a portable device of this other new ‘non-lethal’ weapon is in development and the Pentagon seeks to deploy this device to law enforcement in 2008.

www.zmag.org...
Keep in mind that DARPA (whom we can thank for the Active Denial System -- the new microwave crowd-control weapon the Pentagon hopes to deploy to a police station near you by summer 2008) is just the daddy of DoD contractors: there are some 310,000 companies around the world working for America's war industry. That's what we're up against.

One can only imagine the mess we will find ourselves in when the “portable electric chair” will be accompanied by the “portable cooking device” in the hands of law enforcement. By then things will most definitely be a lot worse compared to the situation we find ourselves in at this moment.

But what about Titor’s “organized groups engaged in maneuver and armed conflict?”

After defining the isolated monthly WACO-type deadly taser events steadily getting worse now and covered by the media since 2004, it’s important to put this next “piece of the puzzle” in context with Titor’s other statements:

John Titor
Piece 10:
“It's 2004. I apologize for a missed key (very observant - we all need good critics). Perhaps our definition of war is different. I would define it as a conflict where organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict.”

At first glance one could think “the organized groups engage in maneuver and armed conflict” will start in 2004, but that would contradict with Titor’s earlier statement: “I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.”

Why? Because that would imply that John Titor would put a WACO-type event (meaning the death of innocent and defenseless children with their parents) on a par with the Branch Davidians being a progressive organization against law enforcement.

However, that is not what John Titor meant. Did John Titor thought that the Branch Davidians were an organized group engaged in manoeuvre and armed conflict against law enforcement? Apparently not. That’s why he said: “Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there?”

Another fact is: the shootout that took place in WACO did NOT involve the 25 innocent/defenseless children and their parents inside of the building. What happened in that shootout? Given the way the Government lied about its later use of incendiary devices (and the Justice Department denying eyewitness reports for 6 years! of what it now admits is true), should anyone believe the official story?

Apparently John Titor meant something different when he spoke about those organized groups. Obviously, John Titor meant a WACO-type event steadily getting worse and resulting and growing into organized groups that would engage in manoeuvre and armed conflict!

Clearly there must be a reason for groups to engage in manoeuvre and armed conflict and this definitely was not the case in WACO. With the growing amount of post 9-11 unlimited ‘non-lethal’ taser use by law enforcement and WACO-type taser deaths as a result, there is one reason. A very big one! Opposition, anger and hatred against the use of these ‘mobile electric chairs’ by police is growing rapidly. That’s one of the reasons why Titor said:

John Titor
Piece 11:
"You must realize that why people are fighting is more important that what they are fighting with. The conflict was not about taking and holding ground it was about order and rights. They were betting that people wanted security instead of freedom and they were wrong.”

It wouldn’t make any sense if the "organized groups" would "engage in maneuver and armed conflict" without any particular reason to do so, or without any particular enemy to fight with, or without any particular reason to organize against that enemy.

John Titor
Piece 12:
Q: Will you readily be able to identify the enemy?
JT: “They will be the ones arresting and holding people without due process.”

So with the growing intensity of police brutality and deadly taser events it will only be a matter of time until black and white will unite against these forces. And that will be exactly the type of war as described by Titor. That type of conflict is not about taking or holding ground but one about order and rights. That kind of war will go a long way toward erasing racial problems.

John Titor
Piece 13:
Q: Is the conflict racial?
JT: “ Not at all. In fact, I would say it goes a long way toward erasing racial problems.”

And with taser-related deaths in Canada evolving qualitatively and quantitatively on a par with the United States, one can say it is pretty much involved in the same type of conflict.

John Titor
Piece 14:
”There's not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they were pretty much in the same type of conflict.”

The conflicts about “order and rights” will all be about these ”groups engaged in maneuver and armed conflict." They will develop as a result of the steadily worse growing “WACO-type events/methods” used by officers of the law against their US citizens until it will be occupying most US citizen’s minds in 2008 and consume everyone in the US by 2012.

John Titor
Piece 15:
Q: Does the civil war start in such a way that those willing will have time to remove themselves to safer locations.
JT: “Yes. You will be forced to ask yourself how many civil rights you will give up to feel safe.”

John Titor
Piece 16:
“By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep.”

John Titor
Piece 17:
“Outright open fighting was common by then and I joined a shotgun infantry unit in 2011.

John Titor
Piece 18:
”The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.”

Taking EVERYTHING that Titor mentioned in context and putting every piece of the puzzle in its place there is no other conclusion to draw then that according to Titor, the United States will GROW into a second civil war starting from 2004/2005 of which we already see the signs clearly developing, not as a sudden full blown civil war, but starting out as isolated “WACO-type events” firstly happening every month, growing worse and flaring up and down for 10 years.

The years 2006 and 2007 will be of critical importance and hopefully disprove us the abovementioned chain of events evolving into Titor’s reality. Unfortunately according to Titor the US will grow into that direction and only a small group will realize the seriousness of the situation. Most of US citizens will decide not even to leave the cities even if close to 2015 it will be absolutely plain as day it will be unsafe.

John Titor
Piece 19:
“When the civil "conflict" started and got worse, people generally decided to either stay in the cities and lose most of their civil rights under the guise of security or leave the cities for more isolated and rural areas.”

John Titor
Piece 20:
Q: You said that there will be a big war. Can you at least tell us which cities will be nuked?
JT: “No I won't do that. However, I submit to you that when the moment comes it will be absolutely plain as day that you are unsafe in the cities. The millions people that stay will choose to stay. That's what comes as a surprise.”

John Titor
Piece 21:
”Perhaps I should let you all in on a little secret. No one likes you in the future. This time period is looked at as being full of lazy, self-centered, civically ignorant sheep. Perhaps you should be less concerned about me and more concerned about that.”

John Titor
Piece 22:
“While you sit by and watch your Constitution being torn away from you.”

John Titor might be real, then again there are as many arguements against. If you want to find the case, for or against, you can. But, you need to check this web site out

[Mod Edit]: Airing on the side of caution, simply edited link (as per anonymous tip) to insure it was not showing any private information belonging to this member...


[edit on 12/3/2005 by EnronOutrunHomerun]

Roth, who are you trying to convince?

I could go over your post piece by piece, but that would just make it seem like your post is credible.

Bottom line, the person who created the John Titor persona took a look at the politics of this country and had a message to send, warning us of what he thinks could happen if we don't change. Instead of just writing or bloggin his message in a regular way, he choose a different way. A way that would get attention.
Nothing he wrote was anything new. Every single one of his predictions have been predicted by others around the internet and elsewhere, well before he created John Titor (well before the internet in fact).
There is absolutely nothing in the John Titor story that tells me that it's anything other than a fictional story. In fact, thinking back...I did the exact same thing back in high school. Our assignment was to pretend it was the year 2020. We had to describe current events then, and leading up to 2020.
I wish I could remember all that I wrote but I know I got some stuff right (like us going back to Iraq and taking out Saddam).
What's the difference between that and John Titor?

ThatsJustWeird,

I am not trying to convince, I am merely comparing and combining all the pieces of the puzzle.

Ofcourse, everyone is free to make up their own minds.

On the contrary of what you wrote, John Titor's words were unthinkable of in a pre 9-11 world.

Quote - February, 21 2001:
"Your prediction of (national politics) pending disintegration, beginning in three short years, is impossible."

Yet we are here and Titor's world is closing in on us... rapidly...

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Roth, who are you trying to convince?

I could go over your post piece by piece, but that would just make it seem like your post is credible.

Bottom line, the person who created the John Titor persona took a look at the politics of this country and had a message to send, warning us of what he thinks could happen if we don't change. Instead of just writing or bloggin his message in a regular way, he choose a different way. A way that would get attention.
Nothing he wrote was anything new. Every single one of his predictions have been predicted by others around the internet and elsewhere, well before he created John Titor (well before the internet in fact).
There is absolutely nothing in the John Titor story that tells me that it's anything other than a fictional story. In fact, thinking back...I did the exact same thing back in high school. Our assignment was to pretend it was the year 2020. We had to describe current events then, and leading up to 2020.
I wish I could remember all that I wrote but I know I got some stuff right (like us going back to Iraq and taking out Saddam).
What's the difference between that and John Titor?

Originally posted by Roth Joint
On the contrary of what you wrote, John Titor's words were unthinkable of in a pre 9-11 world.

That is completely false. Maybe you didn't have access to the internet pre 9/11 or just weren't paying attention. But some of Titor's predictions have been around for decades. Alot of militia and anti government people have been preaching this stuff for years and years.

Some of that stuff was predicted right before Titor came on the scene.......Y2k fears.


Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Why is this still a topic? Titor is a joke and has been proven false. Can we move along now people and talk about something more interesting. It's nearly 2006 and nothing has happened proving that Titor was a hoax so if this topic is still active in january then you all are mentally insane.

Originally posted by NinjaCodeMonkey
Why is this still a topic? Titor is a joke and has been proven false. Can we move along now people and talk about something more interesting. It's nearly 2006 and nothing has happened proving that Titor was a hoax so if this topic is still active in january then you all are mentally insane.

Wrong, He has never been proven a hoax.... Since we are dealing with worldlines, things can be delayed and to never happen.., maybe you can wait till 2008 or something before you call it a hoax, even if nothing happens in 2008, this still would not prove Titor a hoax...., in any case the year 2006 does not prove Titor a hoax, just because nothing happened to you.

Seriously though say if Time Travel is possible and Titor is real...

My math is not all that great right now because it is very late, hrmm....but for a general ideal, I'm thinking there is no way our future will be like as described by Titor.

John Titor can only give us an ideal of what our future may be like,"not exactly like" This is due to his multiple world theory. Titor came around 2000 with something like a 2% divergent upon arrival then left around 2001.. So he stuck around for a 4% divergent worldline from his 2036. Now we are moving to 98% divergence, right.... 2006 would mean a 12% divergent worldline, right? maybe ......

Titor did say

"what if I told you I did go forward to “your” 2036 and it looks nothing like mine. It is quite possible"

Yes, this is true. If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get
home by going back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.


(…If I go forward on this world line, the future will not be my future. I get home by going
back to 1975 before I arrived and then going forward to 2036.") A few people have asked
me about this statement so I will try to clarify it. On my worldline (A) in 2036, I was given a
mission in 1975. I turn my machine on and jump to another worldline (B) in 1975 with
about a 2% divergence from (A). From the very point I turn my machine off on (B), I create
a new worldline just because I’m there. This line can be described as (C) and started when I got to (B). I am now doing my mission on line (C) in 1975 when I discover a very a good
reason to go forward on (C) and see what happened. I turn my machine on and go forward on (C) to the year 2000. When I turn it off, I start another line called (D). So from my perspective, here we are on line (D) in the year 2000. In order to go home to line (A) I
must turn my machine on and go back on (D) until I reach (C) which in turn would take me
back to (B) which in turn takes me to a point before I arrived on (B) then I go forward from
the point I arrived on (B) back to (A).

Titor has to go back into time to get to the world that he remembers as a small boy" But this may not happen.............

He lands in 1975 with 2% divergence from 2036 and he goes forward too 2000 with another 2% divergent worldline, all along creating more worldlines. Then reverse that order and still creating more worldlines and percentages. He gives examples of worldines ABCD then reverse DCBA to go home, all would be 2% divergence or more again. That is something like a 16% worldline divergence plus plenty more %'s, when he returns to 2036.

If we where to add up all the percentages.... There is over a 100% chance that our world is much different than Titors, though similar not alike....

And I would speculate Titor's curiosity may get him in trouble lol.....





[edit on 4-12-2005 by XPhiles]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
On the contrary of what you wrote, John Titor's words were unthinkable of in a pre 9-11 world.

That is completely false. Maybe you didn't have access to the internet pre 9/11 or just weren't paying attention. But some of Titor's predictions have been around for decades. Alot of militia and anti government people have been preaching this stuff for years and years.

Some of that stuff was predicted right before Titor came on the scene.......Y2k fears.

Just because you weren't paying attention doesn't mean it didn't happen.

What John Titor "predicted" has come to pass within a few years. Other "predictions" yet to come true. Nobody around 2001 pre 9-11 could ever believe that would be possible in such a short time. Yet, it happened.

john titors multiple word theory sounds too flawed. everytime he were to change times, foward or back he would be creating energy. this is because if he went back in time, the energy that makes him up might be in plants and animals right then. thus he would be breaking the law of conservation of energy/mass. should his new found science(which could be string theory somehow proven) find that this rule could be false or different then we believe that would be the only possible way.

if he goes back once, then back again, he now would have 2 of him in 1975. he would have to go to the exact spot he arrived, the moment before he arrived, then kill his second self while he came back, then leave as soon as possible, to create as little divergency as possible. once he returned he would have to kill his grown up self again. its very very complicated

watch the movie 'Primer' you might have a hard time finding it but believe me its a good find.

Something that is becoming more intertwined with the real multiple worlds theory is the transference of energy between such worlds.

"Dark Energy" and other such previously discounted energy forms are slowly making up a large foundation for these theories.

Day by day Titor's time travel actually is becoming more scientifically plausible.

That said in the end it is impossible to prove or disprove Titor ever.

So for everyone here I would just say it best to hope that if he was true and right, the divergence is enough for it not to happen.



For a what if.. Lets say Einstein never made it to the US. That would be considered int he scheme of things what.. several ten thousanths of a percent divergence at best? What would have been the side effects today of that one thing?

Once act by one person no matter how small can forever change all of history for everyone. Remeber that.

[edit on 4-12-2005 by Xerrog]