Explaining the Brexit Mess.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well, there are always solutions.

Whether or not these solutions turn out to be tenable all the same, that remains to be seen.

Either way, someone always pays the price i suppose.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Well, there are always solutions.

Whether or not these solutions turn out to be tenable all the same, that remains to be seen.

Either way, someone always pays the price i suppose.

Absolutely but really the issue of Trident is quite far down the road in relation to the current state of parliament and thats really the focus of this thread.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Just one of many an issue that lies not too far down the road.

They mount up after a while.

I predict somewhat of a traffic jam there.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I only mention the limited movement deal because it was spoken about in the EU parliament a while back and it was explained that this was because we were not a part of the European connected nations, that we were already half in and half out compared to other nations. Which is why I believe it was offered. I don't believe that there is no room for new talks both sides want a deal. I believe the mistake May made was admitting that she wouldn't leave on a No Deal, even if she wouldn't she should've kept that to herself. My main concern with all this is the standing of both sides in the world, don't get me wrong I think the UK government are a laughing stock at this point across the world thanks to how this has been handled but I also think its showing that side of the EU that they are known for, being hard to negotiate with.

I want to say that I hold no ill will to anyone who voted remain, I think that's the problem, a lot on both sides of the results are starting to dislike the other and aren't willing to have conversations (which clearly you are attempting to do - have a conversation I mean which makes a change). I fear that we will see this become a problem if this continues much longer. We have enough problems in the UK to do with and its time to either do Brexit or revoke it. Personally I want Brexit but either way they need to do something and do it now not later.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

I want to say that I hold no ill will to anyone who voted remain, I think that's the problem

Amen brother!

I feel the same I don't really hold any ill will to anyone who voted leave, there are some very good reasons for wanting out.

What I find most interesting is that although we are divided in terms of leave/remain we all seem pretty much unified in that our government has messed up.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

I canny see how Boris and applicable cabinet can do in 74 days what May and her Muppet team could not do in neigh on 900 odd days.

Not than anyone even seems to be maneuvering nor devising a workable plan on either side, but time is most definitely not on anyone's side any longer.

It's pathetic, and that's by design.

Boris will do hard Brexit and then claim all sorts of nonsense but by then it will be way too late.

It's funny really, just no funny ha'ha.

There is only a one sided Brexit mess.

The people who lost the vote have caused havoc because they could not accept the result. They have helped the EU negotiate with the UK, underming the Govt. and acting against the interests of their own country, they have lied day after day in national media outlets, they have done everything in their power to avoid having to leave the EU. The 'mess' is one they created.

Now the last step is to overthrow the Govt because the Govt is doing what they people voted for.

The people of this country see through it, I believe and the traitors will not win - even if they do manage to overthrow the Govt.

I voted out, I thought I voted to get away from been told what to do. When I voted, I voted to be out HOOK LINE AND SINKER. They was no mention of a deal. Everyone i know didn't want all this immigration, that is the main issue. And all the polls are stupid because, why would any person who voted out, have to answer a poll? The people have spoken. GET ON WITH IT.

a reply to: Denoli

So respectfully a few points I would like to make,

They was no mention of a deal

Actually there was, according to VoteLeaves own website, "Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden stop- we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave" you can find it on their website (Note: you need to move through the slide show to page 10). They also said that there would be some kind of new UK/EU treaty in place by 2020 which also has not happened.

Everyone i know didn't want all this immigration, that is the main issue

Okay thats fine but most immigration into the UK comes from outside of the EU. Immigration from the EU is actually going down. (link)

And all the polls are stupid because, why would any person who voted out, have to answer a poll?

Thats totally fine, you can have that opinion if you want to to but it does not change what the polling data says.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I want to commend you on being able to explain the issue objectively. That's a difficult thing for any of us to do, and I think you did it brilliantly.

Normally, I don't care much about how other governments run their countries, but I do have a keen interest on how this Brexit plays out. It mirrors a problem we have in the US: when the will of the people is at odds with the will of the government.

The Brits seem to have the same problem we have with our top legislative bodies. We vote these people in to represent the will of the people, yet through legerdemain worthy of a world class magician the final product represents the will of political parties instead. No one is representing the shopkeeper, the mill worker, the poor schmuck selling pieces of his life every day to keep a roof over his family's head and food on the table. Representatives get into office and vote the party line.

From what I could tell, very little was done during the leave / remain referendum to inform the British people of the facts of the issue. 90% of the "information" passed to the people was pure, blatant fear mongering on both sides. I think that remains so today. For whatever reasons, governments would rather have people base their opinions on emotions than reality. I think Brexit is only one example of that.

I think the problems we have with representative government are only magnified with supra-national organizations like the EU. I remember the beginnings of the EU. It was promoted as a trade organization that would mutually benefit its members. More money and trade for all. No down side at all. Sounds good, right?

But the EU has morphed into an entity which now writes laws for member nations, sets immigration and diplomatic policy for them, and tells them who they can and can't trade with. All with even less representation for the common man. There is even talk of an EU military force. It seems the plan all along was to create a United States of Europe without any pesky guarantee of rights for the little people.

Imagine signing an ongoing contract with someone to sell 1000 widgets per year and buy 1000 thingamabobs. Then they start telling you how you have to live your home life.

--------------

In my view, this all boils down to one thing.

Currency.

Those little pieces of paper created out of thin air by international banking cartels. With no intrinsic value themselves, the bankers have governments force their use to create an artificial demand. If you don't have enough of these pieces of paper, the government takes whatever tangible assets you have. When governments don't have enough of these pieces of paper, the banking cartels tell the governments they need to take more from the people, give them less, and use polite terms like austerity and "haircuts" to make it sound better.

That's what the EU is all about. In spite of the high tax rates, European nations have too much prosperity according to the banking cartels. They don't want your paper, they can print all they want. They don't want your land, they want you to have to work to pay for that land. They don't want your products, what is a banker going to do with 1000 bushels of corn?

What the EU wants is your country and your sovereignty, lock, stock, and barrel.

And if your country decides to opt out of this incremental takeover, they will try to ruin you. The last thing the EU wants is to see a country leave the EU and be successful. It might give the other member nations ideas.

Britain's options seem pretty clear.

Remain in the EU and accept the paper in return for your country. The paper will eventually be worthless, but that's somewhere down the road.

Leave the EU under their terms, which are designed to create so much financial hardship that you will be begging to come back.

Kick the can down the road again. Let the next batch of politicians take the blame for any hard decisions.

Leave, but in name only. Tell the British people they are not part of the EU, but still conform to all EU laws and continue to pay tribute.

Do the "hard" Brexit and prepare for the economic war that the EU promises. It's funny how money can show you who your real friends are.

I see this as a defining moment for the British people, as historic as the Battle of Britain. Who are the British people? What does it mean to be British? What do you stand for?

Honestly, I feel a little guilty that I take comfort in watching this from the sidelines.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I have to wonder myself, with Tories pretty much engineering a fall in life expectancy, by way of all this austerity bullcrap for near enough the last decade or so.

And the fact that they now want to raise the state pension age to 75!

Meaning most people who have paid into the system all there lives will never even live to see a penny of there pensions.

Will any of the people who actually voted to leave the EU, even be around to reap the rewards, should they ever miraculously materialize a few decades down the line, of whatever the UK has become?

Because chances are, aside from the rich Tory twats in their ivory towers that can afford private healthcare, the rest are all going to be dead.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Brexit has plunged the UK into a constitutional crisis one that I think needs to be properly explained without the shade of partisan politics.

And I'm out...

Have fun with the thread sport...

a reply to: UKTruth


The authoritarian globalist cabal is in full FEAR mode! Pelosi has already opened her pie hole and said she will fight Trump against ANY trade deal with the UK if there is a Brexit...

Think about that......

originally posted by: JAY1980

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Brexit has plunged the UK into a constitutional crisis one that I think needs to be properly explained without the shade of partisan politics.

And I'm out...

Have fun with the thread sport...

Well thank you for contributing absolutely nothing....

Did you even read the thread?

a reply to: seeker1963

I think what she said was that the trade deal was contigent upon whether or not the Good Friday agreement going to be violated.

Bot sure how all that works.

originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: seeker1963

I think what she said was that the trade deal was contigent upon whether or not the Good Friday agreement going to be violated.

Bot sure how all that works.

There is a lot of concern in the UK about what a UK/US Trade deal would look like, for example the "Chorline Chickens" or what will happen to the NHS under any kind of trade deal. Its not really a concern about the Good Friday agreement thats more coming from Brexit itself although it is a consideration. Some have even been going as far as to suggest that the UK could almost become a satellite state of America if we are not careful.

Furthermore its also worth noting that Trump basically said that if the UK were to agree with the EU then America would probably not be able to enter into a partnership with the UK.

However, this thread really isn't so much about the aftermath the UK leaving/remaining/something else but rather a explanation as to how parliament finds itself in the mess it is in.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: DISRAELI

I think honestly that its going to be settled this year one way or another.

Either we will walk away with no deal on 31st of October which honestly seems most likely

Or.

Corbyn's plan works and we have a general election and if Labour win we have a second referendum.

I feel like it's honestly going to come down to either of those options.

The 2nd of those won't settle it. As the first referendum was not implemented the 2nd would not be considered legitimate. We have to leave first then the EU supporters can make the case for rejoining. If they can get and win a rejoin ref that would be fair.

originally posted by: justwokeup

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: DISRAELI

I think honestly that its going to be settled this year one way or another.

Either we will walk away with no deal on 31st of October which honestly seems most likely

Or.

Corbyn's plan works and we have a general election and if Labour win we have a second referendum.

I feel like it's honestly going to come down to either of those options.

The 2nd of those won't settle it. As the first referendum was not implemented the 2nd would not be considered legitimate. We have to leave first then the EU supporters can make the case for rejoining. If they can get and win a rejoin ref that would be fair.

Neither would settle it honestly, if we leave with no-deal I suspect that the Remain voters will spend a generation blaming everything on Brexit and to a extent they could have a point.

If we have a second referendum while it might confirm the will of the people if Leave was to lose (with current polling indicates) then they would probably spend a generation going on about how Brexit was robbed from them and again to a extent they will have a point.

So I don't think either option settles anything, in my own personal view we should do what will do the least about of harm.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I honestly feel like its much deeper than that, right now we have a very pro-brexit government in power who are doing everything they can to force it though on the 31st of October.

AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT

They are only intent in doing what the people voted for three years ago

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin





Suppose thats one possible explanation.