Explaining the Brexit Mess.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I honestly feel like its much deeper than that, right now we have a very pro-brexit government in power who are doing everything they can to force it though on the 31st of October.

AND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT

They are only intent in doing what the people voted for three years ago

Where did I say there was anything wrong with it I was merely stating that the current government is very pro-brexit.

originally posted by: Dwoodward85

Will I be peeved to high heaven that we might have to vote again? Of course because millions of people will not bother and the most likely outcome would be to remain just because those who voted to leave would give in and say "Well I wasn't listened to the first time around so whats the point now?" so remain will win

Isn't that what the EU do? Keep on voting till we (the EU) get the result

we want!!

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin


My friend, that was very well put, I must say, I love Halloween, it's my favourite holiday, this is the first time I've found Halloween scary since I was just a nipper.


I wanted to leave the UK when Bawbags kept us in back in 2014 but friends convinced me that it was worth staying, our pensions were protected, we'd stay in the E.U. the Government promised us this. Now BawJaws is in power we are screwed, plain and simple.


The "we" I speak of are the Scottish, such as you (OtherSideOfTheCoin) andy06shake and myself, the lower/working class, see above plush Cornish (Springer, rest his profile)
and all those living payday to payday. And I'm willing to bet there are many resident Brexiteers in here who will be slammed as hard as us, others not so much but we are all going to feel it when we isolate ourselves.


BawJaws is gonna bend Britain over and hold us down while the Annoying Orange rams a shiddy trade deal right up our Khyber pass and there is very little, if anything the people can do about it. Well, apart from take to the streets.


For as long as I can remember, until recent history there was graffiti scrawled on an old railway bridge outside my hometown, in a very picturesque place (google Northwater Bridge Angus if you're interested) that read "Scotland free or a desert" I never understood what that meant but I'm starting to get an idea...

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Regardless though the fact of the matter is that the EU has basically said no more negotiation and that would only change with a radical change in the UK governments position.

No more negotiation? There has been NO negotiation Mrs May conceded at

the first port of call..... Barnier has said that she never in three years

mentioned a no deal!!

The EU has not made the slightest move to meeting the UK even half way their

stance is rigid, the point of any negotiation is to move and meet some where

near the middle.

a reply to: eletheia

I honestly feel like you're just jumping round this thread responding to little bits of my posts with no context.

What is your point, how does it pertain to the current situation in parliament as I have explained it in my OP.

Yes the negotiation was awful am not saying otherwise.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

One wonders if they don’t want a no-deal then why did the conservatives put in a no dealer as prime minister?



BTW, it’s a nice try but it’s a lost cause trying to get people to examine any issue objectively; they can’t do it. Their polarity and divisive hormones are just too high.

It was the anniversary of the Peterloo massacre the other day.
This was when ordinary workers in Manchester gathered for the right to be able to vote for someone to represent them in parliament.
Those in charge sent in the troops and killed a bunch of them.

And here we are, having voted to leave the EU in defiance of our lords and masters.

Now, parliament may not be sending in troops to kill us, they are though trying to kill off any sense of us having a voice in how this country is run.

originally posted by: Deplorable
That's a lot of TLDR.

Short version: The common folk voted.

The common folk, mostly wanted to Remain, only those with money and/or narrow minded views and/or supported certain football teams of the world voted Leave...

a reply to: djz3ro


Funny how many of the commoners voted to leave then isnt it?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Dwoodward85

I canny see how Boris *snip*

You mean BawJaws?

originally posted by: SprocketUK
a reply to: djz3ro


Funny how many of the commoners voted to leave then isnt it?

In England maybe, plus see my comment about the narrow minded, that wasn't just the rich...

a reply to: Willtell

One wonders if they don’t want a no-deal then why did the conservatives put in a no dealer as prime minister?

So this is an interesting question.

I actually really want to get into this but am a few whiskys too deep now and its getting late but there is a interesting discussion that can be had around how Boris became PM

a reply to: djz3ro

I mean the dude with the bus that seems to have lost it's wheels.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

So true. I cannot find one person in the UK or the EU who thinks the Government are doing a bang up job or even an okay job with Brexit. I've found maybe a handful of people who think that May handled the whole thing well while I've seen and met people who seem to think she did a terrible job. Personally I think she was in over her head and had no idea what she really wanted. She was trying to please both sides. I do think that it can be solved easily and quickly if the government stopped acting according to what they think will keep them in power and instead put their focus on whats good for the countries involved on both sides.

Thinking about it, I don't really think there is a lot of ill will on either side just the small number of people who seem to hate one side or another is being the focus of news media and so called polls that push the idea of the country being divided. I work in a secondary school and pretty much the entire staff voted to remain against maybe a handful of us who voted leave and yes there have been heated discussions but honestly I don't see anyone who hates the other for their political views (Except one bloke, a complete twonk whose favourite reaction is to label people racists or some other ist if you disagree) I just think the media loves to push that idea of a split country. We are all just waiting for an end to it so the future can be our focus.

a reply to: andy06shake

Yeah I get that point. I don't think May did a very good job. She made the mistake of going in with red lines that she refused to move on just to fit the backbenches who were making their demands and then she was trying to please the remainers in her party which was the backstop (which apparently she came up with thinking that it would get through). Boris is probably going to fail at negotiating and rather than coming up with a good plan, a possible deal he and his team are just hoping the EU bow at the end of the day and give in on the backstop.

This is the problem. They're not doing this on the basis of how well the country is going to do or how well the EU will do in the future which should be the main focus but instead its about how they will be seen afterwards, what they can use to score political points, it's moronic. And even as a Farage fan, I think he is to UK centric, the EU has a future too and we have to come to a proper exit deal before this all blows up.

I can't believe this is only the exit part, even if a deal is eventually made we have to work on the trade deal which is probably going to be a lot more voting on little things in Parliament rather than getting things that are in proper need of debate and funding through parliament and government like the freaking NHS which needs a massive shake up and cash injection. (Don't get me started on waiting times. Because of waiting times I ended up with Tinnitus from a freaking ear infection!! seven months ago).

a reply to: Dwoodward85

I cannot find one person in the UK or the EU who thinks the Government are doing a bang up job or even an okay job with Brexit.

As an American I find the televised sessions of the House of Commons highly interesting and entertaining. Probably more than you would consider our congressional sessions.


I hope someone over there comes to a rational solution.

a reply to: Denoli

Putting aside my hope for this deal to be done and over with, yes that's what I voted for. I didn't like the future plans, the military force controlled by the EU was a scary thing for me, the idea of foreign policy set up by the EU and a central banking system that controlled EU wide taxes, finance plans, heck even morgages scared the heck out of me. Their future plans seemed to be about removing more and more power from nations and into their hands. I remember an EU parliament session where one of the people (during the whole Italy and their elections and voting in a party that was seen as dangerous to the EU) said "We should just hold a vote on removing their power to have votes until this can be sorted". Seriously more people should watch the EU parliament sessions because it is an eye opener.

Now don't get me wrong, if that's where the EU wants to go then go for the gold, it isn't my choice for the other nations but I voted to leave completely without any ties to the country, I believed and still do believe that a trade deal can and will be reached because one simple statement made in the EU session where a political stood up and said "The United Kingdom leaving the bloc is comparable to 19 small and medium nations leaving at once. We need to make a fair deal for both sides" which I think was a sign that some are prepared to make a good fair and proper deal but our government and France, Germany and a number of others have different views on what needs to happen.

The important thing is to remember that the EU need us leaving to fail, they need us to come back with our tail between our legs asking for help because if we prosper, if the UK becomes a huge success then other nations will want to leave. THAT is why the deal is harder to make, that and those involved in the talks are rubbish.

a reply to: Dwoodward85

Well, it seems we are all up # creek without a paddle nor a plan in sight.

At this late date, it's a Tardis Boris could be doing with nevermind some negotiation skills which still remain to be seen.

Without the NHS millions of peoples lives would be in danger all the same, god bless them.

We would be crazy to accept spurious American products/trade deals/or letting there companies anywhere near our already failing NHS.

That's just out of the frying pan and into the fire.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I know we're trying to keep the thread on point but I felt like I needed to add this in response to your comment...

The whole chicken thing is a moot concern. Our laws currently mean that labels need to tell us what the product or in this case the chicken has had done to it so it would be a law that any Chlorine Chicken would need to say so on the label, so for me, if that was the case and the labeling was there then I don't see an issue if people want to eat that chicken then they can. Although saying that my fear would be that Chlorine Chickens would be the cheapest priced so people would end up getting it just because it saved them some money.

The NHS, is not on the table, the US trade bloke has said that it would not be on the table. Trump had no clue what it meant to this country, he has said as much, he gave an interview and said that the NHS wasn't a part of trade. I do think he was talking about the cost of machines, and other equipment and the cost of medicine but he did not say and no politician in the UK would be dumb enough to say "Oh we're ending the NHS and moving to an American style for profit insurance system".


And sadly yes I've read as much about any future trade if we remain in the EU or as Trumps people put it "...ties themselves to the EU through laws and trade embargo" Trump has said that no trade deal could be done but he has said in interviews that he aims to make the best trade deals that we can, the best trade deal possible. Even Japan and other nations have begged America to go into a free trade deal with the UK - No clue why but I've read online that some Japanese business and politicians want the US to do a free trade free movement deal with the UK, I have no clue why but it has been reported as such.

a reply to: eletheia

Yep and god help any nation that goes against the will of the EU and their figureheads (Germany and France basically who are the most powerful nations in the EU).