Trump says U.S. agency will begin removing millions of illegal immigrants

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: mtnshredder

You must not be very good construction wages are not stagnant at all. They are growing faster than almost every other industry.

Average construction manager is getting $50 an hour.

Problem is most people talking about this aren't actual tradesmen with a liscense. Carpenters are screwed in some states but that is about it.. welders, plumbers, hvac, pipe fitters, electricians, etc desperate for people and high paying.

Licensed trades are much different than other trades in construction when it comes to pay scale, always has been. When it comes to carpenters, painters, drywallers, landscapers, roofers, etc. the wages are stagnant and have been for a long time, but they’re still required in order to build in construction. Thankless trades in many respects.


I was in the paint trade, which is not a licensed trade except for contractors license requirements in some states. When I was in the TV and film industry as a Union worker I got paid extremely well, that’s not the case outside of the union.

I was one of the best in my trade where I used to live. I could give you a list that reads a who’s who of homes I’ve done for people, been flown from NY to LA and a few points in between doing the specialty finishes I do that most others can’t and made a lot of money doing it. Still doesn’t change the fact that I can hire guys for wages being paid decades ago. Just spoke to another contractor last week that said the same thing and he’d been in the trade going on 60 years.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: luthier

I got lucky. I worked in the home decor industry and I live in a very heavy military area.
New customers were always moving in and buying.
Especially if the military was responsible for moving them. The damage claims were off the wall. LOL

There is nothing lucky about hard work and not letting opportunity pass you by.

The hand out attitude has many faces.

Being born somewhere by chance and expecting priviledge for it is not something America was ever based on until recently. O thought it was a cool aspect.

A country that allows those willing to work hard a better life. Creating a beauracracy ti prevent that is the most cowardly way to address the problem. In a sense at least trump is upfront about his position.

a reply to: luthier
BTW, The illegals are not taking the licensed jobs that you listed like they’re the ones I listed, you need both to build.

a reply to: mtnshredder

You can't expect to have a common skill however good and be paid a high wage for it in capitalism. You have to adapt. However that is. Specializing in historic paint schemes and technique, using business methodology to expand or franchise....

This is not a good arguement for capitalism. You are not guaranteed something.

Pros and cons to this attitude and honestly there is a huge debate to be had about human worth vs gdp as means of judgement. As machines take over we should debate in a useful way how to value our human society without fighting for wages as robots take over....

But instead we are debating what brand of bandaid to use.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: UKTruth

Stop trying to change the subject. It was an illustrative point not literal.

The real point is that this is just more of what we heard before the midterms and it is just blather.
He does not have the means to do what he is claiming he will do and in fact there are no moves on the table suggesting that he is actually going to do anything but talk big.

It was not illustraive - it was a spurious comparison you made.
Whether Trump will actually deport millions is another question and I tend to agree that he will not.
He does however have the full force of the law on his side should he opt to do so.

a reply to: luthier
You’re completely missing the point.

originally posted by: luthier
We are at war with cartels. They created this problem. Americans supply the cash. This is a hard fact trump supporters and this type of stop the migrant workers philosophy doeant address.

Really? You haven't heard Trump talking about stopping the drugs and the cartels?

You also falsely claim that Trump and his supporters are against legal work visas, and nothing could be further from the truth.

a reply to: mtnshredder

I am not. You have a skill you can learn easily on the job. I am sorry but it's a fact. I am a really good painter. I can spray, use a brush, know my masking techniques from molding to cabinetry and guitarmaking. That was my choice...

I also learned how to code operate and maintain cnc and fix commands if problems occur during the carve. I can use most all cabinet shop and install equipment. I can operate jobsite scaffolding and use proper safety precautions for lead or toxic substances. I apprenticed as a cabinetmaker in 1992-1996, was on a remodeling crew, worked for a guitar manufacturer, and now duplicate hard to find millwork in restorations. I started at 11 an hour...now I set my own hours and make a middle class life. I own my own tabletop cnc....I started with nothing. I never once expected someone owed anything. I created it by adapting to make more money.

If you want to debate merits of democratic socialism fine but this is a different form of the minimum wage arguement.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Lol talk is cheap. What is the plan. Is it secret?


He is not for legal visas. He wants the number to be lower for the type of labor we actually need. By the way....many many incredible people came as labor. Including I believe Tesla. Trump wants skilled professionals and less labor that would help the trades.

a reply to: 727Sky

Its an interesting idea and I wish Trump the best of luck in this, but for some unknown reason, I remain skeptical that any meaningful results will be achieved.

An interesting topic brought up in that article which you didn't discuss is the concept of "Safe Third Country" Agreements. In the article its mentioned that if Mexico finds itself unable stem the tide, it would sign a "safe third country agreement" with the US.

What is a safe third country agreement?

thehill.com...

A big sticking point in negotiations between Mexico and the Trump administration to prevent tariffs from being imposed on Mexican exports is the U.S. demand for a “safe third country” agreement when it comes to asylum-seekers traveling to the United States. Mexico has refused to agree to the commitment, under which potential refugees would be required to apply for benefits in the country where they first land, and not the country where they ultimately want to settle. The Trump administration wants the deal to close what it calls “immigration loopholes.” It wants Central American migrants to have to apply for asylum in Mexico, and not the United States. If Mexico signed a safe third country agreement, Central American migrants would no longer be able to cross the U.S.-Mexico border to surrender to U.S. authorities and stay in the country while they await asylum proceedings.

Regardless of what happens, understand this, in the long run, none of it will make any lasting difference. The Leftist elites that run the major metro areas are hide bound and determined that the US maintain an open borders policy. They see this as a "humanitarian" and social justice issue. As they see it, these migrants are fleeing desperate crime and poverty and hunger brought on and caused primarily by the US and other western governments responsible for climate change.

I live 60 miles from the border and I can tell you what you can expect. In pursuing its decades long practice of "catch and release" the CBP dumps dozens migrants at the bus station in the nearest town of 17,000 residents. Most are provided with a bus ticket to San Antonio where they are processed by NGO charity organizations and then shuffled off on buses to their preferred destinations across the country.

Many more are never apprehended; they wander the countryside near the border and make it to that very same town of 17,000 where they proceed to shop lift, burgle, break into and steal automobiles and then presumably find their own way to San Antonio. BTW, property crime in SA is 3rd highest in the US according to a recent Youtube report.

Welcome to third-world hell America, the chickens are truly coming home to roost and your crappy government will never do anything more than pay lip service to fixing the problem.

a reply to: TonyS

So Gregg Abbott is a liberal or he doesnt know millions work in his state?

It's not climate change it's the 2 billion Americans pay for the drugs that help them dig the tunnels....and so on. Trump solution is equally useless.

a reply to: luthier
But can you juggle kittens?

You’re still missing the point that I and someone else has tried to explain to you a few times now, you’re just not having it

a reply to: mtnshredder

If there was money I would learn how rather than want to raise min wage basically.


I would listen to debate about how we restructure society to help create a better wealth balance as machines take over many jobs.

But I can't make money in capitalism because too many people do what I do is basically entitled thought under conservative philosophy.

a reply to: luthier
If you can’t get it, you can’t get it, so, just never mind.

a reply to: mtnshredder

Cool what is the point? Is it secret? Do you know how long people have been threatened by migrants taking unskilled jobs in America? Yet it produces people like tesla or carnagie.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: mtnshredder

I would listen to debate about how we restructure society to help create a better wealth balance as machines take over many jobs.

That's an interesting debate and one that I think pre dates any consideration of machines.
It never did sit well withg me that people work their assess off and deliver huge value in certain professions - i.e. people who build, nurses, etc and yet get paid a fraction of what a fat advertising exec who delivers nothing of any real value makes.

effort*value delivered should correlate to income, but we have a strange notion of value these days (which is driven, I feel, by a manipulation of human beings into consuming things they do not need).

a reply to: UKTruth

Yes.. this is where people like you and I have a bridge. The difference with most folks and myself is i don't know what is the right answer but i can spot what isn't true. I see the problem i know it exists but it's all theory to fix it. American founders tried to make a system nobody can do too much at once. It has some faults because of that but ultimately is better than unilateral decisions.

These discussions need to happen and have disagreements that are sincere and useful to hash out how to proceed. Society is changing very fast. In 20 years people will be deciding traits of the children they want and be genetically vaccinated most likely. AI is expediting science in areas humans need better observational or data analytics than human biology allows.

The future is coming. It reminds me of the game of thrones of we who have disagreements over small things and prideful things don't assemble against the real threat we will have a literal global cast system with who controls tech. Lets not have it be Google and Facebook.

a reply to: luthier

Gregg Abbot has nothing to do with it. He's anything but liberal but as the Governor of Texas there's precious little he can do about the problem. He tried earlier this year but got no where.

a reply to: TonyS

He can't notify federal authorities of the employers? I mean its millions. Surely he could get a couple hundred at work every couple months?


Or maybe he is full of crap and knows it would destroy his states growth and there aren't replacements at that scale.

Surely as the AG he knows the situation very well?
No you are right hands are tied. Can't go after millions going to work in his state every day. I mean the employers are donors right?