Some sense on the abortion issue

www.foxnews.com...


First off, the source, get over it. Focus on the message. Second, Although this main article is about Clarence Thomas and his remarks, I want to focus on the guest, Dr. Saphire. She brought up some really good points that I think are missed by most loud voices. She thinks that because we have the extremists making the most noise, the people in the middle, who are like most, and not extreme, are being ignored.

I try not to bring this subject up, as it's not my business. I will never get pregnant, and have passed the age and ability where I will be getting my wife pregnant. I shoot blanks now. And the choice to end a life, is a legal choice in this country, so women who have to make this choice must do so between them and their God and their Family. It's a personal thing that nobody else gets to meddle in. I personally think it's murder, but again, not my duck, not my pond.

And something really important that she said at the end, when the Fox news crew were trying to get her to cheer for their side, she explained that she had a kid when she was in high school, and chose not to abort, now she has a wonderful family and they are happy. But, she also said what things played into her decision may be different with others, so basically, YMMV. (your mileage may vary)

I really don't want to get into any debate over this, as my position is squishy and non committal, to pointless. I just wanted to let people see what I consider to be an intelligent way to discuss this. States rights was brought up, and that made much more sense. If you are totally against what is legal/illegal in your state, you can move, no harm, no foul. Rules as important as this one, are decided by the majority of those who reside there.

I would ask this, if anyone is in the position to abort simply due to finances, please check into the adoption process. There are many families who cannot conceive and would love any child they got like their own. Be safe and wrap that rascal!

I will point out that a lot of the arguments that get made on pro-choice echo the arguments made for slavery if you go back and look at them.

a reply to: network dude



I feel uneasy with the abortion issue in that it is always a majority of men

making the laws concerning abortion and men don't get abortions.......

originally posted by: ketsuko
I will point out that a lot of the arguments that get made on pro-choice echo the arguments made for slavery if you go back and look at them.

The SCOTUS ruling in Roe V Wade has been correctly compared to the SCOTUS Dredd Scott ruling by many legal scholars over the years. Someday, America will look back at this issue with the same disgust and embarrassment as we look back on slavery with today. The only real difference, for obvious reason there won't be descendants of abortion victims gaming the emotional nature of the history and trying to get reparations for the legalized wrongs they experienced.

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: network dude



I feel uneasy with the abortion issue in that it is always a majority of men

making the laws concerning abortion and men don't get abortions.......

Uh, both men and women began their lives as fetuses... so it's kind of a big deal for both sexes to have a voice protecting them.

a reply to: network dude

Why is this even an issue... couples should just use a condom or any other contraceptive.... whats the big deal!

a reply to: eletheia

I agree, but by the same token, My child is My child, as much as it is My Wife's child. Knowing the real rules of being a man, you accept responsibility for your actions, even if it sucks, it's fair to say the father should at least be heard, or have some say in the matter. And those who run away like bitches, should be ridiculed often and frequently.

IMHO

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: network dude

Why is this even an issue... couples should just use a condom or any other contraceptive.... whats the big deal!

People screw up. It's the only thing we can agree that we all do well.

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: network dude

I feel uneasy with the abortion issue in that it is always a majority of men

making the laws concerning abortion and men don't get abortions.......

And according to some they have no input in even making the baby.

Your logic is somewhat faulty in that the elected officials making the laws are voted into office by men and women.

So women had just as much say in the process as men did.

But logic normally doesn't come into play in this topic anyways.

~shrug~

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: eletheia

I agree, but by the same token, My child is My child, as much as it is My Wife's child. Knowing the real rules of being a man, you accept responsibility for your actions, even if it sucks, it's fair to say the father should at least be heard, or have some say in the matter. And those who run away like bitches, should be ridiculed often and frequently.
IMHO

You're making an assumption there that every woman who seeks an abortion

is in that type of relationship...... in truth it isn't.


A woman consultant in one clinic reported many of the women she saw were

abused and bruised women, and one patient was a child who had been made

pregnant before she had had her first period...... that is more the truth of the

matter!


^^^^^^Those are female problems made by men^^^^^^^

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: eletheia

I agree, but by the same token, My child is My child, as much as it is My Wife's child. Knowing the real rules of being a man, you accept responsibility for your actions, even if it sucks, it's fair to say the father should at least be heard, or have some say in the matter. And those who run away like bitches, should be ridiculed often and frequently.
IMHO

You're making an assumption there that every woman who seeks an abortion

is in that type of relationship...... in truth it isn't.


A woman consultant in one clinic reported many of the women she saw were

abused and bruised women, and one patient was a child who had been made

pregnant before she had had her first period...... that is more the truth of the

matter!


^^^^^^Those are female problems made by men^^^^^^^

And those are reasons why my opinion on what choices that girl has to make means not a damn thing. I don't know. But men that would do that just have a lead deficiency, it's a curable disease.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: eletheia
a reply to: network dude



I feel uneasy with the abortion issue in that it is always a majority of men

making the laws concerning abortion and men don't get abortions.......

Uh, both men and women began their lives as fetuses... so it's kind of a big deal for both sexes to have a voice protecting them.

Good point... I don't remember ever having a choice in being brought into this world.

It's good to know theirs people (both men and women) speaking up and stating the reality of the situation... which is, with all the poverty, mental illness, war and general cruel & bitter acts going on in this world, then maybe it's just more humane for some people not to be forcefully brought into existence in the first place.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Uh, both men and women began their lives as fetuses... so it's kind of a big deal for both sexes to have a voice protecting them.

I don't disagree; but I don't totally agree either. For myself, I have always scoffed at (and resented) the claims that this is exclusively a women's rights issue, because it obviously benefits men as well. Not all men want to protect their unborn children. Many men want their baby aborted.

What My Partner’s Abortion Taught Me: Men Benefit From Choice, Too

We Asked Cisgender Men How They've Personally Benefited From Abortion. Here Are The Five Stories We Received

Men have the same opportunity to not impregnate a woman as the woman (usually) has to not get pregnant. We all know how it happens and how to prevent it. But when both parties fail to not create a baby, it is the woman's body affected and at risk of complications, many quite serious, even killing the mother. And I have a big problem with anyone -- man or woman -- telling anyone that they must risk their own life for another. Which, of necessity, includes potential mothers.

As much as it hurts my heart to realize it, not all pregnancies are meant to be successful. And God/Nature gave women the right to terminate pregnancies when women were given the power and ability to terminate pregnancies. If it's a crime, then it's a crime against God/Nature, and divine/natural law will see justice served -- not mankind.

What we can do is everything possible to ensure that there are no unwanted babies, and that all mothers and fathers have the necessary resources to take care of their children, and/or at least the resources to see the pregnancy through to be given for adoption.

If only women get to have a say on whether or not to bring a life into this world then men who do not wish to be responsible for that child should also have the right not to have to support it with child support payments.

You might think such a man who would do this is a selfish creep and the scum of the earth -- and you'd be right. You'd also gain an insight as to how we feel about some of you when it comes to the issue of abortion.

As I've said before many times on this board, I don't believe abortion should be illegal. But I am also strongly opposed to it being normalized and seen as something women can do to be brave or heroic. It's not and in most instances it is because they are merely fallen people and serve nothing in this society but themselves.

a reply to: Lumenari

I agree. However, electing officials isn't perfect and there is a long history of old officials being elected who have backwards ideas on laws (such as drugs).

I think we should just make abortion legal in the very first early weeks. Then end it at that. Or, if not, then just have states decide like now.

I just feel like those who are considering abortion probably shouldn't have children anyway. Yes.. It is murder in some technical degree. But, that soul will just reincarnate into another person. It's not a big deal because: if it is done very early, there is no pain or anything felt by the fetus.

Just my opinion, and im sure many disagree. I don't think it's a big issue.

Banning something like abortion, much like drugs and other things that people see as "vices" does nothing but push it underground and make it more dangerous. You can't legislate morality, and to try only multiplies the actual harm involved. To the person and society.

People need to get over thinking that punishing people helps them. In our society and with our laws, it only does the opposite.

originally posted by: SilentSaturn
a reply to: Lumenari

I agree. However, electing officials isn't perfect and there is a long history of old officials being elected who have backwards ideas on laws (such as drugs).

I think we should just make abortion legal in the very first early weeks. Then end it at that. Or, if not, then just have states decide like now.

I just feel like those who are considering abortion probably shouldn't have children anyway. Yes.. It is murder in some technical degree. But, that soul will just reincarnate into another person. It's not a big deal because: if it is done very early, there is no pain or anything felt by the fetus.

Just my opinion, and im sure many disagree. I don't think it's a big issue.

I think it should be safe, legal and rare.

I don't think it should just be marketed as a means of birth control (which let's be honest that's exactly what is really happening with big money involved).

Much less what it has turned into now... to me killing your kid after you've birthed it is infanticide, not abortion.

The OP is right... there needs to be a middle ground found.

I also firmly believe the Federal government should have no say in it, should not fund it, should not politicize it, should have no laws about it.

It should be a State issue and nothing more.

Then let people vote with their feet.

a reply to: Lumenari

Fair enough

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

See, if you're going to use those "rationales" for justifying abortion, then you open the door up to the genocide argument of focusing population control on the poor, those carrying hereditary mental illnesses, and those whose cultures seem to be the most likely to spark incidents that lead to wars. Safe to say you probably don't support genocide, so why open that door in the first place? Give each individual a chance to succeed on their own merits.

originally posted by: underwerks
You can't legislate morality, and to try only multiplies the actual harm involved. To the person and society.

All laws are "legislation of morality," though. It's literally the definition of laws as they are simply legislations rooted in what the prevailing climate of morals is at the time of the law's ratification. Anarchy would be the result if we honestly eliminated laws founded in common morality and no, even with the laws we've accepted, not all agree with the morals behind it. The world is filled with liars... yet we will never see perjury become legal. The world is also full of sociopaths, good luck decriminalizing murder to appease their moral differences.