The Abortion is Murder - Madness on the so called Christian Right

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: ketsuko

Shhh, it's just a clump of cells.

Unless you can prove that the clump of cells has conscious thought and emotional understanding the way a newborn baby does then it's as much of a human as sperm.

Ummm, dude?

You, you right now. . . are a clump of cells.

This has to be one of the most difficult question to answer unless you've been in a situation were an abortion is needed.
If it's a Christian right wing "thing", life is life, and so should be cherished but society and science has changed our understanding of the world since the Bible was written. We no longer stone people to death, keep slaves, which the bible seemed ok with unless they were Jews of the old testament, sacrifice animals to a god, the list goes on.
We now know that incest can have a detrimental affect on the gene pool, and is shunned. Certain diseases will harm a unborn child before it reaches full term if left unchecked, which could lead to death or seriously affect the health/life of the unborn child in later life, if it's known that they will live a life of sheer pain, and agony, should that unborn foetus be bought to term and forced to live a life of hell? Should a woman who is raped be made to keep an unwanted pregnancy. I honestly don't know the answers.

Not to long ago women and certain races of people were treated as lower classes of people. Some were even classed as not human. Americans like to claim that America is the land of the free, that there freedom is above almost everything else.
Who has the right to take that freedom of choice away from someone because they don't agree with the choice they've made?
Jesus said turn the other cheek but a more right wing Christian America still has the death penalty, so it's ok to kill a criminal but not abort an unborn foetus?

originally posted by: Bluntone22
She should choose not to get pregnant....

How's that work out when daddy decides to knock up his little girl or someone runs into Mr. Piece of S*** rapist?

a reply to: AlienView

I am totally down with what you are saying, but you do realize that you're trying to argue with people who believe in ghosts right?

edit: And talking snakes.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: MichiganSwampBuck
A woman's right to personal freedom with her health, her body and her life seems to be the main issue of abortion.

The fetus at any stage is absolutely human though, regardless if it is merely an early stage blob of tissue or a more developed embryo. It is also a separate human with different DNA than the mother. Abortion is considered a woman's legal right by way of a Supreme Court decision in part because a human fetus isn't legally considered a human being and so has no rights as a human. The idea that because the constitution never addressed the legal standing of an unborn human's rights, then it has no rights is flawed thinking in my opinion.

I know a human fetus to be a separate human that is hosted by the mother's body until birth. It is unfortunate that the female of the species has the sole responsibility of physically hosting the next generation during the process of human procreation, but that is how it is.

As for personal freedom, as with all freedom it comes with responsibility and consequences. In my opinion women should exercise their responsibility by taking proper steps in preventing pregnancy and excepting the consequences if they don't and then become pregnant. Women are well aware of this yet many women want the easy way out if they make a "mistake" (more like a poor decision) and get pregnant.

Hmmn...... I wonder was that you?

I was recently listening to a discussion and a man said ......

* God made man .... then he made woman for mans pleasure *

Was that you?

Where in my post did I mention anything about God?

Where did I mention anything about a man's pleasure?

The legal rights aspect is what I was commenting on for the most part.

ETA: From the United States Declaration of Independence -

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Basically we have the right to life (being born and existing), freedom of choice and to freely pursue the life that gives us the most happiness, something a fetus doesn't legally have.

Then there is the Bill of Rights, Tenth Amendment -

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

This should make the laws regarding abortion reserved to the States or the people.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bluntone22
She should choose not to get pregnant....

How's that work out when daddy decides to knock up his little girl or someone runs into Mr. Piece of S*** rapist?

First step...they get their nuts cut off and have to wear orange a$$less chaps in prison.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Bluntone22
She should choose not to get pregnant....

How's that work out when daddy decides to knock up his little girl or someone runs into Mr. Piece of S*** rapist?

First step...they get their nuts cut off and have to wear orange a$$less chaps in prison.

You bring up some good points with your statement, the fact that it takes two to tango and that sterilazation is a fool proof way to prevent unwanted pregnancy. Also sterilazation is optional for either sex.

I don't have a problem infrindging on a man's reproductive rights when he is a serial rapist, I doubt many proabortion people have a problem with that either.

a reply to: eletheia

Any adult or other person can take on or care for a six month old, or indeed a

new born?

BUT

No one else but the pregnant woman can grow the fetus/embryo to life

Thats a fact.

So, you would be OK with not aborting a child if the maid could take over the pregnancy?

I'm not sure what you are arguing for... your statement was that the child could not exist on its own and therefore could be killed without consequence. I just showed other similar situations and asked if that thought process still applied.

Seems you hold a very situationalized viewpoint on murder and killing.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Kurokage

Not to long ago women and certain races of people were treated as lower classes of people. Some were even classed as not human. Americans like to claim that America is the land of the free, that there freedom is above almost everything else.

Dude, that was 160 years ago. Not too long ago? What, are you Methuselah or something?

Who has the right to take that freedom of choice away from someone because they don't agree with the choice they've made?

Who has the right to take existence away from someone because of a choice the taker made?

Jesus said turn the other cheek but a more right wing Christian America still has the death penalty, so it's ok to kill a criminal but not abort an unborn foetus?

Yes, it is. That's not a religious law. We don't require laws to be religious in the US. It is based on the difference between one who kills others and one who hasn't even had a chance to see the sun yet.

We also don't have laws for "right wing Christian America." We have laws for America and laws for states. Laws apply to everyone of all religions.

TheRedneck

To put it very simply, OP, using gardening terms -- this is a bunch of non-gardeners having a cow that I would dare change my mind about sprouting seeds and weed out any sprouts I don't want, or change my mind entirely and dump the sprouts all together. Evidently, all sprout lives matter/are sacred/etc even if they're not wanted.
No one should have to justify if they want to continue with the sprouts, or focus on their established plants instead. Edit: Or an empty yard, not everyone has or wants a lush one.

The same sentiment applies to women and abortion -- a bunch of non-incubators having a cow over whether or not someone continues to sprout something internally. Tend your own proverbial "garden" and never you mind what is in another's. It's not YOUR garden.

originally posted by: Metallicus
You don't need to be Christian to be opposed to murdering other humans. I am opposed to abortion and have no religious affiliation. I would guess there are many Atheists that also find the widespread murder of the unborn to be immoral.

Take a good look at those suffering in the filthy disgusting orphanages around the world. Look at the street children begging, sick and hungry.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Who has the right to take existence away from someone because of a choice the taker made?

Reminds me of the guy who sued his Parents because he did not like being here and they made him be born.

a reply to: Nyiah

Let's continue with that philosophy...

I smoke, and I am getting damn tired of non-smokers telling me how bad it is for me. Why can't the non-smokers mind their own business?

There's a couple of troublemakers around here that I would love to have disappear. Why should it be illegal for me to just kill them? Why are people who don't have to deal with them telling me what I can and can't do about my problems?

So what if the rare, endangered, green-eyed pond scum is found on my property? It's my property, not yours, so butt out if I want to exterminate it!

My cat just had a litter of kittens. I don't want them. So what if I toss them into a burlap bag with a concrete block and chuck it into the river? No one's business but mine... those kittens would inconvenience me!


No, you don't get it both ways. You want to live in society, you live by society's rules. Don't like it? Go somewhere and become a hermit; that way you get to make all your own rules.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

We have laws for America and laws for states. Laws apply to everyone of all religions.

Apparently not. We have a president who flaunts the rule of law, and refuses to acknowledge laws that are an inconvenience to his agenda. We have states whose legislators defy the law and pass laws that violated the Constitution, making their oath of office meaningless.

a reply to: TheRedneck

No, you don't get it both ways. You want to live in society, you live by society's rules. Don't like it? Go somewhere and become a hermit; that way you get to make all your own rules.

But, it's you and the special interest groups, who thumb their nose at the law, that you support and who are complaining about existent laws. It's you who is throwing a hissy fit at people who are supportive of the law of the land, because you want to make your own rules.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Nyiah

Let's continue with that philosophy...

I smoke, and I am getting damn tired of non-smokers telling me how bad it is for me. Why can't the non-smokers mind their own business?

As a former smoker myself, knock yourself out, you'll die sooner and avoid some of the old age downfalls of health issues & running out of retirement & healthcare money that way. Not being a dick, I'm pointing out a shorter lifespan might be a little more humane & financially logical for you that way.

However, as a former smoker who never smoked in a public smoking section of a restaurant or strolling down a sidewalk among others, it's simple polite courtesy to wait until you're back home or in an area where no one is to light up a cancer stick. This isn't anywhere near the same arena as abortion is, other than the smoking in solitude aspect being akin to not having squat to do with someone else.

There's a couple of troublemakers around here that I would love to have disappear. Why should it be illegal for me to just kill them? Why are people who don't have to deal with them telling me what I can and can't do about my problems?

Again, knock yourself out. Pick your solution and go with it. The fallout is yours to deal with, so that's what you base your choice off of. If you pick the murder route, hey, maybe you're the bane of someone else's existence and they'd love to see you in a jumpsuit the rest of your life, too.

So what if the rare, endangered, green-eyed pond scum is found on my property? It's my property, not yours, so butt out if I want to exterminate it!

Nitpick -- Yours unless you stop paying property taxes (it's really the government's, you just pay taxes to rent it indefinitely)
Make sure you really understand the impact of that pond scum and what it feeds, and what it feeds on to maintain a balance before you do anything to it, and the impact of the laws. Can you afford the fines for getting rid of it? Yes? So who's going to stop you then?

My cat just had a litter of kittens. I don't want them. So what if I toss them into a burlap bag with a concrete block and chuck it into the river? No one's business but mine... those kittens would inconvenience me!

Why didn't you neuter your cat in the first place? Overpopulation in that species is a big problem (like with humans) so why didn't you do your part to keep it under control? Even if you dumped them in the woods instead, feral cats are still an issue with wildlife populations.

No, you don't get it both ways. You want to live in society, you live by society's rules. Don't like it? Go somewhere and become a hermit; that way you get to make all your own rules.

And your examples are s# examples that are not good parallels for the context here. Life's only precious when you think you can control someone else to make yourself feel better about your place in the world. As if subtly saying you feel you're not recognized as important or influential enough in your own mind, and making others bend to & emulate your ideals is the only way to assure you are before you croak. There's a little too much personal belief variation among 7 billion for that, suck it up, cupcake. That's why we met in the middle and have Roe v Wade.

You think no reason is good enough for an abortion, and I say you've no dog in the fight unless it's yours genetically. In other words, unless I'm having a wild time with you specifically, Redneck, any subsequent meeting of egg & sperm within my reproductive system and whether or not is stays there is not your concern.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: M5xaz

originally posted by: AlienView
Yes, I know - They say God is on their side - God, the defender of the unborn - A God that states that every carnal act thet conceives is
protected by his devine will [remember baboons, life is conceived by carnal acts by sex] - OK righteous sobs now that you know what I think
of you - Let's proceed.

First, above all else, you are Hippocrates - And there is nothing Jesus hated more than Hippocrates.

You, in your twisted and sick ideology would force a Human female to bring to term unwanted life - because you say all conception is an act of
God.

I say there is no God in this universe that will forgive you for you hypocrisy - Your true hatred for the value and dignity of Human life
is obvious - And your deregard and demeaning of Human females is obvious.

In the upcoming election your political party of Hippocrates will burn for its ant-female ideology
- So maybe you do love the Liberal left after all ?

"devine will"
"deregard"
"ant-female ideology"
"And there is nothing Jesus hated more than Hippocrates."

No.....just.....no...... (facepalm)

Leftists ARE ignorant morons.....smh

I love you for this. 😂😂😂😂

:up Love ya right back !

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: M5xaz

You will get in trouble for posting those pics

Yep.
I did.

Whatever happened to "Deny Ignorance" ?

a reply to: Nyiah

Good excuses! For every situation that challenges your views on abortion, you conveniently have an excuse to uphold your wild presumptions. Incidentally, those were hypothetical examples... and I noticed you went off on me aborting kittens, even hypothetically. Screw the humans, but those kittens... gotta save 'em all!

The thing is, I don't buy your excuses. They're just you moving the goalposts, trying to get that lousy lopsided kick to maybe make it between them. You initially said if it wasn't your 'garden' stay out of the decision. But then when confronted with how many times, every single day, our actions are dictated by others, then you have a convenient excuse for them. Just not one for the killing of an unborn child.

That is the definition of immorality. Morality is doing what one believes even when no one else is watching. Immorality is doing things based on who is watching.

It is also the definition of hypocrisy, the act of doing the same or similar things that one denounces others for doing.

I'll let you figure out how that combination applies to you. Not my garden. Mine's not overgrown with weeds.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Seems you hold a very situationalized viewpoint on murder and killing.

Here are some legal definitions according to U.S. code.

18 U.S. Code § 1111.Murder

(a)Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.
Any other murder is murder in the second degree.

1 U.S. Code § 8.“Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant

(a)In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

(b)As used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.