Georgia Abortion Bill

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Then be prepared to get called out for your personal brand of hypocrisy.

I think you need to look up the definition of the word "hypocrisy."

Your posting history betrays you. You don't even seem to be self aware of how your dependency on the 10 Commandments, for example, informs your argument of civil liability. As if a woman's body is chattel, owned by the man who plants his seed inside of her.

Your posting history in this thread betrays you. I called you out for a demonstrably false and misleading comment about the Bible, not for anything to do with abortion rights. I then quoted exact verses with their Hebrew wording along with the exact quoted definition on those Hebrew words. You refused to even acknowledge the fact that your statement is in direct conflict with the Ten Commandments.

The bill as written is about civil liability, which I have agreed with Phage is quite probably a sneaky way to get around Roe vs. Wade. Show me one excerpt from the law that states a criminal penalty for anything concerning abortion. You can't... because it's not there. That has nothing to do with religion. That is the law itself. That is what is being signed. That's the subject of this thread. You seem unable to address that law, instead reverting to some tired old false talking points about "Bible is bad" or "God hates women."

You have obviously no freakin' idea of what you are talking about, even down to my own feelings on abortion. So, let me make this as clear as I can:

I do not discuss serious issues with people who cannot understand them. That means I will not discuss this issue with you. Go preach your hate to someone else.

Good day.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I called you out for a demonstrably false and misleading comment about the Bible, not for anything to do with abortion rights.

No, you interjected yourself into your own personal holy war!

This is the post to which I was responding.

It has to do with life being sacred.
Ergo abortion is murder.
That is in the bible.

The Bible doesn't portray life a sacred. Quite the opposite, as a matter of fact.
The Bible doesn't see abortion as murder, or the unborn as people. As a matter of fact God recommends abortion and the murder of pregnant women quite often in the Bible. So get your self righteous attitude in check, hypocrite!

You refused to even acknowledge the fact that your statement is in direct conflict with the Ten Commandments.

The 10 Commandments are the finest example of hypocrisy that ever existed! The biblical god and almost the entire biblical narrative, including the worship of your precious Jesus Christ, are in direct contradiction of the 10 Commandments. Don't even get me started on how morally wrong all of the 10 Commandments actually are.

The bill as written is about civil liability,

No it's not. This bill isn't about tort law. This is a personhood bill, that cites the unborn as people, with rights under the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. This law outlaws and criminalized abortion, as the taking of a life, at the arbitrary stage of an audible heartbeat.

It's unconstitutional as hell, and will not survive the courts.

I've never understood the "right to do what I want with my own body" routine. It's YOUR body now, that fetus? I don't think so. One way or another you leased out your womb for 9 months. Your way of breaking the lease is to kill the tenant. Your lease will be up in nine months and you can kick the tenant out of your life if that's what you want. The tenant would be much better off than to stay with you and have a chance at a good life, at least a chance. But you don't want the tenant and believe you have the right to kill him or her. That's absurd.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

I think you missed this:

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Sookiechacha

I do not discuss serious issues with people who cannot understand them. That means I will not discuss this issue with you. Go preach your hate to someone else.

Good day.

Since it seems to have gone over your head, let me try it another way:

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE EVEN TALKING ABOUT AND I AM NOT GOING TO WASTE MY BREATH TRYING TO TALK TO SOMEONE WHO CANNOT OR WILL NOT EVEN READ WHAT THEY ARE RESPONDING TO.

We will NOT have an intelligent discussion on this issue and I will NOT waste any more time with you.

Is that clear enough now?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Stick your fingers in your ears and dance around all you want, You're using your fake moral high ground to tap dance around that fact that this bill proclaims the unborn as "people", persons as acknowledged in the Declaration of Independence and protected under the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. It also proclaims that abortion is "homicide".

So again, this bill may conform with your biblical interpretation of the 10 Commandments and your righteous duty to control your women and asses, but it's unconstitutional as hell, and won't survive the courts.

I suppose Georgia is comfortable with bringing back the good ole days of wire coathangers and lysol.

Seems like a step backward to me....

a reply to: olaru12

Choices have consequences and related risks.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

So again, this bill may conform with your biblical interpretation of the 10 Commandments and your righteous duty to control your women and asses, but it's unconstitutional as hell, and won't survive the courts.

Me: "This appears to be a workaround bill... not a good idea IMO. It's also too vague. Not sure it will pass court muster."

You: "You're just mad! Damn Christians! This is a bad bill!"

Me: "I said that."

You: "Quit being such a hypocrite! I don't know what a hypocrite is, but you're being one!"

Me: "..."

Are you just mad because I use bigger words than you do?

Please go away. Just go away.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: JAGStorm

To me, there is almost no excuse for any grown woman to have an abortion these days (except in cases of rape). Birth control of many types are available.

I don't think a human being should die because someone was being too relaxed when they decided to have a romp.

I mean I know, I know, there are alot of younger women that are pressured into sex when they aren't ready and for it, and they are too immature to make a logical step to protect themselves in those scenarios. I suppose I can make an exception - but I feel dreadfully sorry for them and all the psychological issues they will have for the rest of their lives because of two mistakes. I have had several relationships in my life where women I adored as human beings broke down and cried for hours and hours with me because of that event that happened in their lives. Non of them felt no guilt and that it was just something they did to solve a problem. They all felt horrible sadness and emotional pain.

If anyone really wants to know why western women are sometimes "crazy" I think you need look no further than their trip to the abortion clinic. I wonder what percentage of women in the US have had abortions.

I agree with you. There is no excuse except straight up laziness, ignorance, and irresponsibility that abortions are so frequent. I'm of the mindset that abortion should be legal and RARE. No one can argue with a straight face that abortions are rare.

It is extremely difficult to get pregnant when using birth control. It does happen, but not nearly in the numbers that people would have you believe. What most people mean when "condom broke" is that they didn't use a condom... or forgot their pill.

The problem with the abortion debate is that we have extremist on both sides driving policy instead of basic common sense. On the right we have people claiming it is a baby at the moment of conception and on the left we have people wanting to abort live births. It is lunacy on both sides.

I don't have an issue with abortion being legal up to say about 6 to 8 weeks. The woman needs to make a decision and stick with it. However, there is no reason beyond exceedingly rare instances where we should be aborting babies after about 20 weeks.

Exactly.

a reply to: TheRedneck

That made me laugh

a reply to: TheRedneck

Show me one excerpt from the law that states a criminal penalty for anything concerning abortion. You can't... because it's not there.

It doesn't have to. It labels abortion as "homicide". There are already laws against homicide.

This is a personhood bill, that grants legal status and protections to the unborn.

ere. That has nothing to do with religion.

I never asserted religion. I refuted a post that said the Bible says life is sacred and that abortion is murder. You were happy to spend several posts citing biblical quotes to reinforce that stance.

You seem unable to address that law

I am addressing that law. The law makes all abortions after an audible heart beat illegal, pronounces the "unborn" as persons as acknowledged in the Declaration of Independence, (cited in the bill) and the protected by the 14th Amendment, (also cited). Of course the bill ignores that pesky part of the 14th Amendment that qualifies its protection only extends to "persons born".

I'm addressing the fact that this bill is unconstitutional. I observed that you are fascinated with chattel aspect of the bill, that allows for law suits to recover damages for anyone affected by the "homicide", going back to the time of the audible heart beat of that "person", and how it works so nicely with the 10 Commandments.

Of course this bill is trying to get around Roe V Wade, but it's also trying to get around the 14th Amendment.

a reply to: TheRedneck

So, reading the law, it is now indeed a criminal act to perform an abortion based on the "heartbeat" criterion.

Article 5 of Chapter 12 of Title 16 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to abortion, is amended by revising Code Section 16-12-141, relating to restrictions on the performance of abortions and availability of records, as follows

Here is 16-12-140:

(a) A person commits the offense of criminal abortion when, in violation of Code Section 16-12-141 , he or she administers any medicine, drugs, or other substance whatever to any woman or when he or she uses any instrument or other means whatever upon any woman with intent to produce a miscarriage or abortion.

(b) A person convicted of the offense of criminal abortion shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than ten years.

codes.findlaw.com...


The law also classifies an abortion as homicide, based on a heartbeat.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck

So, reading the law, it is now indeed a criminal act to perform an abortion based on the "heartbeat" criterion.

Article 5 of Chapter 12 of Title 16 of the Official Code of Georgia Annotated, relating to abortion, is amended by revising Code Section 16-12-141, relating to restrictions on the performance of abortions and availability of records, as follows

Here is 16-12-140:

(a) A person commits the offense of criminal abortion when, in violation of Code Section 16-12-141 , he or she administers any medicine, drugs, or other substance whatever to any woman or when he or she uses any instrument or other means whatever upon any woman with intent to produce a miscarriage or abortion.

(b) A person convicted of the offense of criminal abortion shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than one nor more than ten years.

codes.findlaw.com...


The law also makes it a homicide, based on a heartbeat, to perform an abortion.

So if a woman has an abortion out of state will she be prosecuted in Georgia?

a reply to: olaru12

So if a woman has an abortion out of state will she be prosecuted in Georgia?

No. It doesn't work like that.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: olaru12

So if a woman has an abortion out of state will she be prosecuted in Georgia?

No. It doesn't work like that.

Why not....I didn't think there was a statute of limitations on murder.

A fascist Theocracy is just what America needs to put the fear of GOD into those liberals.

a reply to: olaru12

The laws of one state do not apply in another state.

Homicide is not necessarily the same thing as murder.

a reply to: Phage

OK, I stand corrected. The bill apparently makes abortion a civil and criminal offense. That bothers me even more with the technology slide I mentioned earlier.

The good side is that this will likely be shot down by the courts.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Arguing with yourself still, I see.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Unlawful abortion already was a criminal offense. This law lowered the bar. A great deal.

Classifying a fetus with a heartbeat as a person creates a whole other set of circumstances besides facilitating civil cases.

a reply to: Phage

No. It doesn't work like that.

You're right; it doesn't. But a charge can still be made. Just because one could get the charges dismissed based on jurisdiction, it does not follow that one would not, in such a circumstance, have to go through the hell of defending oneself.

I didn't like this bill to start, and I am liking it less the more I read it. What are you doing Georgia?

TheRedneck