Seven MP's leave Labour in Corbyn protest.

I think it's well overdue and can't be a surprise to many.

Seven Labour MP's have resigned from The Labour Party and will now sit as an Independent Group.

www.bbc.co.uk...

There is considerable unease with Corbyn's leadership; no definitive Labour policy on Brexit and dismay at his consistently poor handling of the anti-Semitism row.

It seems most of these seven MP's are pro-EU - as stance I passionately disagree with - but I do admire their strength of conviction and their willingness to stand up for their own personal beliefs, something sadly missing in the vast majority of current politicians.
Their stance on anti-Semitism can only be applauded.

The Labour Party is a pale imitation of what it used to be, has abandoned its core principles and is as far removed from its traditional support base as The Conservatives are.

It remains to be seen if it is as Chuka Umunna states - a man I very rarely agree with - the 'first step....in building a new politics' but I do agree with his statement that "Politics is broken, it doesn't have to be this way. Let's change it,".

a reply to: Freeborn

Can't disagree with a single word you have said there.
A good dose of politicians standing up for their personal beliefs and not towing the party line is what good old fashioned politics was always about here. Not only that, it doesn't matter whether you agree with somebody, you can always find respect for somebody who stands up to be counted.

Interesting times.

Oh, and add to that the membership of the UKIP party is is growing at the rate of knots apparently!

Rainbows
Jane

Corbyn is two planks short of being a full blown Commie'

I'm surprised he had any loyalty at all. The guy is a tried and tested nut bar!

a reply to: Freeborn



The way things are it surprises me there are only seven!!

As time goes on Corbyn loses credibility by the day, and John McDonnel

is eyeing the 'top job'

Which ever way it goes its *six of one or half a dozen of the other*.

Political shambles

I always compare Corbyn to Neville Chamberlin in that he would bow to whatever Europe wanted.

I just caught the tail end of the brown guys speech....but it seemed genuine. Wonder how many more will follow?

Its good to see oeeps standing for their constituents at the peril of their career. THAT is statesmanship IMO.

It is very sad that Labour has been hijacked by the hard left - it seems that the Militant Tendency never went away.

Labour is now a "nasty" party as evidenced by the virulent anti-semitism at the top. Corbyn and McDonnell have only been protest politicians all their political lives and have no clue as to how to actually get anything done.

Sad, because we need an effective Opposition and we have not got one.

a reply to: FreebornI
If enough people did that, Corbyn would cease to be leader of the largest Opposition party and would have to give way to someone else.
I've always thought it was a mistake to allow the leader of the parliamentary party to be chosen by the national party, setting up just this possibility of a leader not wanted by his own M.P.'s. Democracy badly thought out.

I do wonder, what exactly have they been doing to be anti-Semitic other than be pro-palatine?

I mean sure there will be the odd member who is going to say something stupid but had senior Labour officials actually been anti-Semitic, you know have they actually been discriminating against and being derogatory to Jews or is it that they just don't like how Israel have been treating the people of Palestine. Like what have they actually done to make them anti-semitic because honestly all I see are accusations without much substance. Now am not saying that there isn't a problem with antisemitism in the Labour Party only that I am not actually seeing it.

Now when it comes to Brexit, that I get, Labour have been an entirely ineffective opposition when it comes to that particular mess and this is just going to add to it.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Here is a useful summary:

BBC: A Guide to Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party

Frank Field clearly believed something was seriously wrong at the top of the Party:

Labour MP Frank Field has quit the party's group in Parliament, saying the leadership has become "a force for anti-Semitism in British politics".

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Here is a useful summary:

BBC: A Guide to Anti-Semitism in the Labour Party

Frank Field clearly believed something was seriously wrong at the top of the Party:

Labour MP Frank Field has quit the party's group in Parliament, saying the leadership has become "a force for anti-Semitism in British politics".

Yes but that's an accusation, now I am not a big fan of Corbyn however a part of me does wonder how much of this is about sabotaging his credibility of leader of the party. They turn his controversial view that Palestine should be recognised as an independent state and it's just built on to paint him as an anti-semite by those who oppose him. I mean reading through that I don't think there is anything wrong with this stuff. One of the instances of supposed examples of anti-semitism in the Labour Party is basically that Corbyn was once in the same room as a holocaust survivor who compared Israel to Nazisim.

I think when you did deep what they actually mean when they say anti-Semitism is anti-Zionism because you can't be one with out being the other apparently. You can't speak out against the Israeli state with out being some kind of Jew-hating nazi and thats just not right in my book.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The trouble is that the anti-Zionist viewpoint (very prevalent in today's Labour Party)all too easily spills over into a hatred of Jews in general.

Here is an example:

BBC: Labour MP Ruth Smeeth under Police Protection after Anti Semitic Abuse

Labour MP Ruth Smeeth has described how she has received 25,000 pieces of anti-Semitic abuse over the summer. She is now receiving special police protection after an internet troll, claiming to be a Jeremy Corbyn supporter, said on Facebook that she should be hanged.

I am surprised that you can't see this that is a problem for Labour.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Yeah but again thats just an example of some dickhead on social media trolling not Corbyn being a Jew hating member of the local charter for the Nazi party.

It again does not actually offer up any evidence of the party being institutionally anti-semitic.

Hell I could do the exact same and claim I am a supporter of May therefore by the same logic that must mean the Conservative party are a bunch of anti-semites.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

OK, but plainly the likes of Frank Field disagrees with you. This is a lifelong and senior MP member of the Labour Party who felt it was such a big problem that he resigned because of it. Read his quote again from the article I posted - could not be clearer.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Yes but that's an accusation, now I am not a big fan of Corbyn however a part of me does wonder how much of this is about sabotaging his credibility of leader of the party

Don't you think he's done a good job of that ALL BY HIMSELF?

He's not credible ....he has flip floped all over the place on policies.

If he wants to represent the UK he needs a good make over.


When I was a representative of a company we were always told " You

only ever get the one chance to make a first impression"


He is far from impressive his policies waver by the day and he wants to

be PM.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

OK, but plainly the likes of Frank Field disagrees with you. This is a lifelong and senior MP member of the Labour Party who felt it was such a big problem that he resigned because of it. Read his quote again from the article I posted - could not be clearer.

Thats fine, but where are the actual examples of senior Labour officials being actually anti-semitic and I mean in the sense of being caught on Camera having a go at the jews for steeling all there money kind of anti-semite not being in a room with a Holocaust survivor who said some things about Israel that were not very nice.

A lot of the Labour establishment hate Corbyn remember, they feel he is too far left and that he is not part of their centrist position. In the absence of actual examples showing him and his senior team (and the whole party) as being anti-semitic I can only conclude that there could be other motivations behind this. Like I said, they don't like him, he is a supporter of Palestine so its probably going to be quite easy to paint him as an anti-semite and use that to force him out, because actually he's also not as hard on Brexit as they would like. I could be wrong but am just saying that I personally have not seen anything that actually shows him or his party to be anti-semitic.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Please refer to the BBC guide I posted which gives examples.

a reply to: eletheia

I am not saying he would be a good PM, am not even saying he is a good leader of the opposition because quite frankly I think he's doing an awful job of that.

This isn't about me trying to defend Corbyn or labour because I "like" them rather its just simply that I don't see anything that actually proves that they have been anti-semitic.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Please refer to the BBC guide I posted which gives examples.

Yeah I read it not one of those examples is actual anti-semitism its all stuff like Corbyn once saying "British Zionists have no sense of British Irony or that he once laid a wreath in the wrong spot, ohhh and someone said once that they were anti-semitic so it must be true. Ohhh and that one idiot who once said Israel should just be moved to the US....

If we're going to be calling them anti-semites then lets actually see it, not crap like this.

You wouldn't call me a Islamophobe if I was to say that British Muslims have no sense of British irony..hahaha, or I said some bad things about Saudi-Arabia.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I do wonder, what exactly have they been doing to be anti-Semitic other than be pro-palatine?

What is pro-palatine ?
Wasn't that another name for a Roman chamberlain ?
Freudian slip ?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It's actually quite simple. There are numerous examples over the last few years of Momentum members verbally (and in some cases physically) being anti semitic to various current Labour MP's, as well as other Labour activists.

Because Momentum are the mouthpiece of both Corbyn and McDonell, Labour MP's (and party members) have been looking for the leadership to clamp down on this behaviour. Obviously though, both Corbyn and McDonell have been silent on this issue. Even Tom Watson (Deputy Leader) has spoken out about this and how it has no place in modern society. As Corbyn will not take a stand on it, he is effectively endorsing it. Things like banning Jewish activists from Labour events also don't help, nor do things like one of the Labour branches rejecting a motion condeming the Pittsburgh synagogue attack.

If you want other examples, how about Corbyn laying a wreath at the memorial for the Munich Olympic Attackers? (but not the victims). Even Corbyn himself has in the past admitted that Labour have a huge problem with anti-semitics in the Party.

Heck, even the Independent newspaper has a whole section dedicated to anti-semitism in the Labour Party.

Trying to deny it is both madness and also a complete bare faced lie.