If the Plot to Assassinate Hitler had Succeeded

a reply to: TheAiIsLying

I think that most of Germany saw through the rhetoric of "Mein Kampf".
Just a casual search of the propaganda films aimed at the 13 year old Hitler Youth would support that notion.
Hardy Krüger starred in both Nazi propoganda films as well as "flight of the Phoenix" 21 years later.

a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

Nuclear reactors/weapons tests leave behind radioactive traces which are easily detectable and linger for decades if not millennium afterwards

Particularly if one is looking for it

The US had a secret team, ALSOS, to investigate Nazi nuclear program. Their mission was to seize documents and Nazi scientists as the Allies advanced

Did you know that some of the troops landing on D-day carried film badges to measure radiation in case Nazi decided
to attack the beachhead with nuclear wastes - aka Dirty bomb

Or that water samples were taken of major rivers and checked for traces of radiation to determine if Nazi were running a nuclear reactors?

One can easily go to the sites of alleged Nazi reactors or weapons tests and check for radioactivity

Nothing has been found ……..

a reply to: firerescue
A cursory google search will give us kilo tons of sites to at least make a case or to disprove the claim, some even definitively. Here's a few links:

The Germans and the Nuclear Question by Wolfgang Krieger
New light on Hitler’s bomb
Declassified Files Reopen “Nazi Bomb ” Debate
1944 German Atomic Bomb
Nazi History Hunters Say Hitler's Secret Nuclear Bombs Lie Under Thuringian Forest
First-ever atomic bomb developed by Nazi Germany?
Nuclear Tourism
Here's a funny one:
The Uncertainty of Heisenberg's Nazi Bomb Motivations

I'm no physicist but as understand it, using heavy water is not the only way to enrich uranium as I have replied to AngryCymraeg... should I welcome you to the rabbithole?

a reply to: MaxTamesSiva

I'm no physicist

Certainly got that right ………

For one enriching uranium dos not require a reactor

It is based on the slight difference in mass of fissile U 235 and U 238 , U 235 makes up 0.71 percent of uranium

To enrich uranium it is converted into a gas - Uranium Hexafluoride. The uranium was then run through an electromagnetic separator called a Calutron which used the difference in mass to concentrate the U 235 by stages

A second process was gaseous diffusion where the uranium was passed through a porous barrier to concentrate it

Both required enormous amount of electrical power

Reactors require a moderator to slow down the neutrons to keep them escaping the reactor

German used heavy water, Deuterium oxide

US used pure graphite - Germans made a mathematical error in calculating the neutron cross section of graphite , They concluded that graphite was not usable as a moderator

Heavy water came from only one place, Norsk Hydro in Vermok Norway . Norwegian commandos from SOE were able to
severely damage the plant in Feb 1843. Germans attempted to repair the plant which was subject to Allied air raids

Germans attempted to ship the remaining stock of heavy water out, Resistance fighters were able the sink the ferry
carrying the heavy water putting end to German attempts at building a reactor.

Maybe should do some research first and I don't mean from conspiracy loons ………..

Start here

nuclearweaponarchive.org

a reply to: firerescue
Nice sidestep. I greatly appreciate your emphasis that I'm not a physicist, but did I mention a reactor in my reply to AngryCymraeg? Didn't you just made my point? Isn't the question you're asking is who's looking for traces of radiation from Germany's atomic bomb project and the alleged test?

Obviously, the rabbithole is off limits to you... Got it, research from alternative sources is not worth one's time and heaven forbid, one's consideration.

originally posted by: AlienView
Alternative history buffs like to speculate on the Nazis winning WWII - Talk about a negative view!

Recently I was reading a biography of Max Planck, the famous German scientist who won the Nobel Prize for his work in Quantum Mechanics
- Both his theories and Einstein's Relativity are probably the most significant discoveries of the 20th Century in physics.

What many probably don't know is that Planck's son was killed in one of the attempts to assassinate Hitler during WWII.

Got me thinking - How different history would be if one of these attempts on Hitler's life had succeeded before the end of WWII.

In my opinion Germany would have immediately looked for an end to the war, especially after it became apparent that they would lose,
offered to give back whatever lands they had conquered and put all the blame on Hitler - saying it wasn't us it was all his fault
- Blamed all the war crimes on Hitler and this may have been accepted and Germany would still have maintained itself as a world power.

What do you think - What would have happened if one of the attempts to assasinate Hitler had succeded

They still would have lost, just faster. Fighting a war on two fronts was a stupid move on hitlers part. And so many other stupid mistakes that deluded idiot made. I would respect hitler as a great military leader, but he really wasn't. He was just a great orator. He could incite people to do the dirt for him. But as a tactical leader, he was crap. If it wasn't for his generals like rommel, he would have never gotten as far as he did.

a reply to: AlienView

If Hitler had been killed then another Catholic would of taken his place.

Do a little research on the CIA they were a continuation of the nazi party check out stuff like lord Haw Haw being taken over to Germany by a Bauer or the rothschild family 7 days before he was about to be arrested by the military in England Also when you start reading different books you will see that the Nazi party was just another Catholic arm. there Is so much evidence that It was just another program of executing the real jewish not the jews check out the genocide In romania killing 700 thousand roma and romane then If you read teh right books you will see that goebbels had the children of the jewish brainwashed and we now know theses children as gypsies the men beat the children about the age of 5 In order to remove the empathy out of them In order for them to go out and cause chaos In society so we dont question what tptb are doing.

Unfortunately people do not want to know the truth they just want to believe what they are told by the media or government which breaks down to govern the mind, mente In Latin Is mind

If you want you can read the book Future Crimes written by a computer crime policeman who states facebook tried to turn all British users Mentally Ill.

Maybe facebook will come to America one day

There is another aspect of this which I hadn't thought of before. If the Holocaust had never happened, would Israel exist today? Then you have to look at all weaponry and military tactics created by Israel. The face of war would be totally different, up to in my opinion an increased use of nuclear missiles as a possible side effect.

a reply to: just2cents

quick reply - google " the balfour declaration "

will give proper reply laters

a reply to: ignorant_ape

I see, so basically, it would have happened eventually anyway, even without the atrocities.

a reply to: AlienView

What if someone worse than Hitler, stepped up and took his place. Some one who wanted to make a point and quadrupled the violence.

Imagine that Hitler was the lesser of the evils, and he was a Smurf in comparison to who could have been in change.

We can't imagine things being worse, because from our perspectives, having not experienced the horror personally, we didn't see the attrocities committed.

But just for a moment, considering the times, Hitler loyalists could possibly have tried to make an example out of those who resist, and they could have taken it to the next level of evil and violence.

Hitler was obviously a monster, a tyrannical megalomaniac and clearly narcissistic to a fault.

His supporters enabled that and encouraged by that enabling environment, he was in a vacuum of brown-nosing yes men. Who would tell him no?

It's nice to wonder what if, and pretend we could solve a major world problem, with a simple answer.
But more often than not, it isn't an easy solution.

Maybe Hitler needed to survive the assassination, so we could learn that lesson from history so as not to repeat it.

Maybe we did learn, maybe we didn't...

But having blind Faith in any political person, party or ideal, with out considering the options of others ways. Is how Germany blindly followed Hitler.

I see that same blind rage, incoherent in it's intent, with the leftists. Their blind hatred, is exactly what Hitler used to build a furor among his followers for a reason.

Because he used their blind hatred against them.
Germany under Hitler was blindly self defeating...

originally posted by: projectvxn
It might be that Germany would have won the war.

I guess it all depends on which assassination plot we're discussing. If it's Operation Valkyrie then they had no way of winning since it was pretty much over by that point and terms were the best they could hope for. If it's an earlier plot, pre-Soviet invasion, then maybe. They would still lose the Battle of Britain which meant that a total European conquest was off the table.

If they remain signatories to the Japanese alliance then they lose anyway since the United States would have opened an eventual second front due to that treaty.

It's too complex a set of parameters to say, 'If Hitler was dead, now what?'. It really needs to be more defined as to the exact time and then the future intentions of the German military command and who comprises that command. If it's the boneheads like Goring then they practically lose by default.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

More likely two bone heads, Carl and Friedrich.

a reply to: Slichter


Yeah, they're up there as well.

a reply to: ADVISOR

Hitler was the poster boy wasn't he - he was effectiely set up as leader because he could get the people motivated. If he had been assasinated before the Nazi's seized power in January 1933, it is possible that World War 2 would never have happened.

If the assassination happened after power was seized, it could have meant Himmler in power. That would have been far worse for the Allies in that, whilst he was an absolute pyschopath, he was also rather capable.

originally posted by: projectvxnIt might be that Germany would have won the war.

Germany never stood a chance either way and as soon as whoever was leader came up against two back then superpowers USSR and British Empie they were defeated. Germany only really did well militarily against joke countries, they never had te balls to take on proper countries forces with any success and were steamrollered back to the much shrunken fatherland we see mapped out today as soon as they came up against proper trained military.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Not really. The German military was far more powerful advanced than Allied military at the start of the war. Hitler stopped the attack at Dunkirk, allowing us Brits to escape. The reason was that he still hoped to get us onside. Our entire exploratory force could have been wiped out en masse, and he could then simply have hopped over the Channel. The Battle Of Britain was decisive in one way but we only won that because we were allowed preparation time. However, realistically, the German military carved through France, Belgium and the British Expeditionary Force in no time at all.

As for the USSR, Hitler's refusal to re supply or allow retreat caused his problems there. Again, if properly supplied, Germany would have carved open the USSR (as it was doing). The turning point on the Eastern Front was the Battle Of Kursk. This was won because of huge bravery by the Russians but mainly because UK intelligence had cracked the enigma machine and passed on vital details to the Soviet High Command. In essence, the Soviets knew what German divisions would be involved, what their strength was and the order of battle - kind of makes countering it a whole lot easier.

a reply to: Flavian

The Soviets were leaps ahead of Germany in most fields, the Germans were nothing really. Sure they got in the initial attempted knock out punch and those that throw the first punch usually win the fight but not in thecase of the eastern front. Hitlers forces were not hardened like the Soviets, they were pussies in comparison nd couldn't even take a bit of cold while the Ruskies were hardy people and could deal with the square heads due to natural resilience. Also te Soviets by and large believed what theyw ere doing was in the right, many Germans knew (especially after seeing what their rear guard were doing to the natives) they were in the wrong and increasing despised their own regime. Even maybe half of 'Nazis' were actual Commies at heart and never believed in taking it to the mother of the Reds Russia.

Armament production in the Reich was good sure bit it never stood a chance against the largest country on Planet Earth with its truly massive and incredible natural resources. Soviet victory was assured at some point from the moment the war began, it was suicide for Hitler to take pon Russia.

Also the quality of Russian equipment was excellent in comparison with what the poor sods conscripts from Hunland had given to them. gaermany never even got a proper tank until the last weeks of the war, also they never even got a proper bomber too. Germa equipment was largely total crap and thus the war was always going to go the Soviet way.

The side show in the west kept a few Nazi divisions occupied but UK and Yanks only went into Europea theatre when it was obvious one of the Ruskies or Squareheads were about to lose, then they shored up a bit of Europe before the winner could dominate the lot.

Then the idiots in the SS turned a natural ally the Jews against them, Jews were on side with the Krauts in WW1 and welcomed Kaisers troops ito the Pales of Settlements as a relief from the murderous Czars and Coosacks, a natural ally was wasted............. Another loss from the German war effrt.

Hitler or no Hitler, Germany was onto a loser from day one

a reply to: AlienView

If that had happened. The world would be exactly the same.

a reply to: AlienView

If the Plot to Assassinate Hitler had Succeeded , Nazism would Still have had Survived another 3 Years . So the Point is ? History would not have been Influenced by that much with his Early Death , Nazism Became an Establishment Surviving Him Until it was Finally Overwhelmed by the Logistics of Allied Might .