If the Plot to Assassinate Hitler had Succeeded

Alternative history buffs like to speculate on the Nazis winning WWII - Talk about a negative view!

Recently I was reading a biography of Max Planck, the famous German scientist who won the Nobel Prize for his work in Quantum Mechanics
- Both his theories and Einstein's Relativity are probably the most significant discoveries of the 20th Century in physics.

What many probably don't know is that Planck's son was killed in one of the attempts to assassinate Hitler during WWII.

Got me thinking - How different history would be if one of these attempts on Hitler's life had succeeded before the end of WWII.

In my opinion Germany would have immediately looked for an end to the war, especially after it became apparent that they would lose,
offered to give back whatever lands they had conquered and put all the blame on Hitler - saying it wasn't us it was all his fault
- Blamed all the war crimes on Hitler and this may have been accepted and Germany would still have maintained itself as a world power.

What do you think - What would have happened if one of the attempts to assasinate Hitler had succeded

a reply to: AlienView

It might be that Germany would have won the war.

Think about it; the only thing that ever held Hitler back was Hitler himself. He was notoriously single-minded, his list of successes in war in the short-term was what colored his war policy in the long-term.

He never took into account what would happen if the war was protracted and his hunger for land acquisition via invasion was unquenchable.

He had PLENTY of "True Believer" generals to replace him and that was the original goal. To replace him with someone who could more sanely manage the war. There were no saints among the upper echelons of the 3rd Reich.

Edit:

Cool thread dude. I always enjoy thinking about what might have happened "if".

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: AlienView

It might be that Germany would have won the war.

Think about it; the only thing that ever held Hitler back was Hitler himself. He was notoriously single-minded, his list of successes in war in the short-term was what colored his war policy in the long-term.

He never took into account what would happen if the war was protracted and his hunger for land acquisition via invasion was unquenchable.

He had PLENTY of "True Believer" generals to replace him and that was the original goal. To replace him with someone who could more sanely manage the war. There were no saints among the upper echelons of the 3rd Reich.

Edit:

Cool thread dude. I always enjoy thinking about what might have happened "if".

I remember reading a historian ,(can't remember who now) discussing If there was any way Germany could have won the war.

Basically said the same thing. There is no way Hitler's Germany could have, but a similarly militaristic Germany but without all the craziness could have.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I think this conversation may find that if time travel were real, not one person would kill Hitler, and that's why it hasn't happened yet. The only reason we know this is because we all agree that Germany did not win the war and Hitler committed suicide a broken, paranoid, nutjob.

But he did have the foresight to ensure that men loyal to the CAUSE surrounded him. Had it been successful it would have been for that reason alone.

I suppose it would have mattered whose plot succeeded and when. As you stated he was his own worst enemy. Btw, have you happened to catch the series “hitlers bodyguard “ on Netflix? Pretty interesting in my opinion. a reply to: projectvxn

a reply to: soundguy

Haven't seen it, but I'll check it out.

There were several plots, even from the very beginning before the purges, and even before the Reichstag fire.

Very difficult. He had lots of guards.

a reply to: AlienView

About late 1941 the western allies realized that Assassinating Hitler could actually be counter productive, up too that point there were several early attempt's that came to nothing BUT had an early assassination taken place it is likely that a more sane if no less evil high ranking Nazi may have taken over such as Heydrich and that would have been VERY bad news for us since Hitler kept meddling in his general's plan's and altering them resulting in many (from a purely emotionless point of view) missed opportunity's which in turn cost the NAZI's the war, one was his irrational insistence upon taking Stalingrad since had he not forced that his army could have swept right into the Russian heartland before the Russians had time to relocate there industry east and in turn may have led to the Soviet union's decline at the hand's of the NAZI's which in turn would have then allowed them access to the resources of Russia and the ability to feed there war machine almost endlessly as well as then being able to then take out Britain.

The Soviets did not stop in there own plan's to try to kill Hitler until much later in the war.

Had the German General's been able to assassinate Hitler as they later intended and failed to do they had intended to then try to make peace with the western allies or at least to if the Allies had refused to meet them at the negotiating table at least be able to get on with what was left of the war without an idiot megalomaniac ex corporal constantly over ruling there more sane and better thought out plan's.

But no doubt by that point in the war it was actually too late in the game, the Soviets had no intention of stopping and would have carried on even if the war had lasted until 46 or 47 as may then have been the case.

Remember also how Hitler hamstrung there jet fighter program, the ME262 was conceived as a fast interceptor and fighter that could have turned the air war in favour of the German's but Hitler after seeing the fighter prototype insisted that it also be able to carry bomb's for which it was singularly unsuited and so they had to then go back to the drawing board and compromise on it's design which in turn put back it's deployment to the German air force by month's if not longer.

From the time traveler perspective, I have always wanted to write a story that, yes, indeed a time traveler changed the course of WWI in favor of the allies.

The precept being that Germany did win WWII with a leader (Named Adolf Hitler) that was actually rational and let his generals run the war properly. That resulted in a true 3rd Reich, that conquered the globe. A 5th column resistance was formed which included the scientific establishment, and all resources put to solving the time travel problem. The goal being to send one man back in time to replace Hitler. That man, surgically altered to look like him, would kill and replace Hitler after the Reichstag fire. That way, he could meddle in the plans of the generals, and not be questioned. By making these small changes, it would stop the advance of the Nazi war machine, without it being openly noticed and anyone knowing that it was happening (since a lot of horrendous stuff was still happening).

Stopping the global advance being the top priority to usher in a more open and peaceful period in history and retaining the bulk of the nations sovereignty at the time. TI would also allow the fledgling USA to become a world power and advance technology faster in the open capitalistic realm that could have been possible under a repressive regime.

a reply to: AlienView
Sounds fun. To a limited degree, the tv series SS-GB already explored the topic back in 2017 although tediously and somewhat uninspired. I don't mind tedious as long as the plot at least suggest something more interesting, but I gave up after watching a few episodes.

Adolf Hitler lived a charmed life, there were 5 previous attempts on his life before 1944. Your topic poses a lot questions like:

1. What was the agenda/motive (speculatively speaking of course) behind the group that tried to assassinate Hitler?

2. Who was really behind the failed plot to assassinate Hitler, was there a Western and/or U.S. intelligence connection... maybe even a Soviet plan?

3. If the motive was to end the war and maybe transition to negotiations for surrender that were in favor to German interests, Germany already offered truce after the invasion of Poland in 1939, France in 1940 and after Hess' solo trip to Scotland in 1941, what changed between 1942 to 1944 that the Allies were seriously interested in ending the war?

Was it:

a. To stop Hitler in developing the atom bomb? A few months after the botched plot, there were a few evidence that the Germans successfully tested an atom bomb in Rügen, about 9 months before Hiroshima.

b. Weren't the plotters aware that as early as 1943, about 2 years after Hitler's blunder in Stalingrad, Bormann et al already made plans for Germany's surrender?

c. Is there a case that Hitler really survived the war and escaped to Argentina as Simon Dunstan and Gerrard Williams made in their book Grey Wolf: The Escape of Adolf Hitler? If so, aren't we living the dream or nightmare today considering the Fascist streak in most governments around the world?

d. Is Hitler really more important than their ideology?


Thank you for letting me revisit this rabbit hole.

a reply to: AlienView

I wonder what the West would look like if Hitler was assassinated around 1943 and WW2 ended there? The Paperclip scientists might not have settled in the USA which would have meant no Manhattan Project, no atom bombs on Japan and quite a few changes in post-War US society. The creation of what we now call the Military Industrial Complex and the National Security Act of 1947 wouldn't have happened. No warnings from Eisenhower about the perils of the MIC (not that it mattered) and no global NSA surveillance.



Without them we wouldn't have found ourselves fighting Commies in Vietnam and Cambodia or arranging ME politics as a buffer against Communism. These events arguably fostered the climate of peace protests, Woodstock and the corrupt counter-ops of COINTELPRO. The background of these monumental changes in Western society saw the CIA tinkering with popular movements, thought control and L-S-D experiments under MKULTRA (overseen by ex-Nazis). Imagine a world with no Hendrix, Doors, Beatles etc? Furthermore, the Civil Rights Movement wouldn't have bubbled up which would have left the USA as a place of racial segregation and huge gender inequality and awful music.

The Soviets might have seized the Paperclip scientists instead so the Cold War would have been pretty short and the West would have lost. Imagine that? We'd potentially be living on a Communist planet which doesn't sound at all appealing! The Soviet sphere of influence would have easily taken in China, Japan and Asia and been backed up by a head-start in nuclear production. All of Europe may well look like Eastern Europe did in the 1970s- grim.

In that world perhaps it would be Soviet Russia that propels technological progress? On the other hand, without an arms race, would technology even be where it is today? There'd be no Space Race and that alone would seriously change where we are today tech-wise.

Imagine that? A couple of years without Hitler and the world could be like East Germany in 1970. Frightening.

a reply to: Kandinsky

I always liked the theories that nazi germany didn't really lose, it relocated. It was able to siphon most of the money and assets out of the country through Deutsche bank and IG Farben before the war's conclusion. Their top scientists and strategists also escaped with no punishment whatsoever.

I have watched a few of Joseph Farrell's presentations and always found them interesting. Little things like Nazi having the atomic bomb years before we even got close. They also possibly had UFO like aircraft that used a different scientific understanding to operate.

Nothing would have changed. If anything Germany is defeated sooner. Nazi Germany lived and died with Hitler. The reason they fought so long despite the impossibility of victory was almost solely because of the Fuhrer.

The Military Conspirators wanted the western allies to join them in a war against the Soviet Union, a position which was totally unacceptable to the allied powers, can't imagine why.

The allies were not willing to entertain any negotiations in 1945 when Hitler was dead other than unconditional surrender, which can be seen in their dealings with the Flensburg Government, they would not be willing to do so in 1944.

a reply to: Kandinsky

The Paperclip scientists might not have settled in the USA which would have meant no Manhattan Project

The Manhattan Project had no input whatever from The Paperclip scientists.

It was a collaboration between The U.S. Britain and Canada.

a reply to: AlienView

it depends which attempt - several would have markedly different " divergences " from our reality

the brittish had a " kill hitler plot " - that was cancelled - due to the fear that a more competent leader would rise

you could probally lump them ny year - upto 1943 , then 1944 - in 2 halves , and 1945 its game over regardless

there are key points :

if a new furher - would have let reader and doenitz set naval pilicy , strategy and ship building - then the things would probally have gone very different

again - a furher with the intelligence to sack georing - and put a competant man in charge - with no interference

i remember a quote from an aide to dowlings staff [ RAF fighter command ] - and he basically said - i prayed to god every night - that hilter and georing didnt die in ther sleep

a furher who gave rommel carte blanc for the defence of france - might have made a huge difference

there are other " moments "

a reply to: alldaylong



There are stories about how we only had enough material to barely build one atomic bomb. We received a large shipment of uranium and the most critical component, the infrared trigger, to complete our versions. This article from the CIA will attempt to redirect the story saying we 'captured' the u boat with dr schlicke when going to japan, but others state the u boat came directly to the US to make a deal.

CIA.GOV

German Atomic project

a reply to: alldaylong

My humble apologies.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

the brittish had a " kill hitler plot " - that was cancelled - due to the fear that a more competent leader would rise

That, in a nut shell, is what would have happened.

The military would have backed, possibly, Goering, while the SS, and the nazi hierarchy would have supported, I think, but I'm open to being wrong, Himmler. It can be argued that both men were more competent than Hitler.

Both would, I think, have been less likely to attack the Soviet Union with an undefeated, and still very much in the fight, Great Britain, at their back. Not to mention the looming presence of the United States becoming involved. Might they have settled for their gains of France and the Low Countries--possibly the Ukraine? With Churchill in the PM's office, negotiations seem unlikely, but with some one else in the office, who knows?

To answer your question it depends on when you do it. Early on removing Hitler would have ended the war. By 1942 however removing him would have prolonged the fighting alot to be said for the damage he did thinking he was a military genius.

originally posted by: dragonridr
To answer your question it depends on when you do it. Early on removing Hitler would have ended the war. By 1942 however removing him would have prolonged the fighting alot to be said for the damage he did thinking he was a military genius.

Ever gamble for a living, say poker?

You know all the odds and usually go with them - And usually they pan out.

But winning is kind of a natural high - You begin to think you can do no wrong - So you gamble some more,
play longer odds hands that you would normally discard - And you keep gambling for higher stakes untl the streak ends.

When Hitler attacked Russia he was on a continuous streak of wins, thought he was fulfilling his destiny of causing
the master race to conquer the World with him [half breed though he was] as leader.

When gambling you can push the odds just so far - and you soon find out luck is just an apparent anomaly
that lasts just so long.

Hitler should have learned from Napoleon - The Russians are neither dumb nor weak - not then and not now.