Boris Johnson quits to add to pressure on May over Brexit

originally posted by: Forensick

If they are reflective of the 3 million other people who came out for Brexit and the government f**ks it up one of two things will happen imo.
1. They will all concede that like voting in the GE it doesnt change anything and sink back into their pints.
2. This will be the straw that breaks the camels back and there will be unrest until someone delivers a hard Brexit.

Both parties were terrified of UKIP and Farrage during the election and were

prepared to promise anything and everything to keep UKIP gains to a minimum!

I wonder if Farage will return, seems like he is the true voice of Brexit and anything less is appeasing the minority.

I for one would vote for him ..... I am prepared to vote on that one point

alone. For anyone who takes the UK OUT without shackles,

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: oldcarpy

Yup. Voted remain, disappointed with the referendum results, far more dissapointed in the government's handling of Brexit talks (complete failure to come up with any plan, Davis turning up to the first EU negotiations with two pieces of paper and a clipboard compared to the EU's 30+ ringbinders full, no deal/bad deal as a result).

EU's 30 plus ringbinders full?

Looked impressive .... but full of what? All the rules and regulations to keep

us tethered to the EU.

They have been VERY negative in their stance, only replying *non* to anything

put on the table, never suggesting an alternative.

Negotiation is a two way thing - and the EU is a *brick wall*

originally posted by: fakedirt

agreed chukka ,adonis, soros, clegg, cable and many more are undermining democracy and hoping apathy will rain down on the citizens. stuff em and their influence. we need new blood untainted by the eu teat. time to grow beyond the restrictive system the top echelon have imposed on us.

if the eu and it's fifth column within parliament are intent on thwarting the will of the people then the time for handshakes is over. we can still trade with the eu much as we can trade with the rest of the world (once we extricate ourselves from the trade trap) however to be quite clear on the matter a full hard brexit may be the only option to command their attention. a level battlefield should be fundamental to move forward and sadly it seems that by approaching the eu table with compromises we are seen to be begging/weak/chaotic. the eu dandies are lording it and this must end.
what must also end is the current parliamentary system. it is not fit for purpose with members skimming the fat of the land and taking orders from the corporate above the will of the electorate. an insult too far.

Make that your mandate and stand!!

I'll vote for you

after reading this we should have this employed in parliament !

when a politician lies they get fired !

deceptive detection

a reply to: mirageman

Well beyond a revolution....

Why not have one? Other countries seem to have done ok after having one.

Party politics has failed us and is no longer fit for purpose.
A system where a party whip can force an elected MP to vote against his own wishes and beliefs and against the wishes and best interests of his constituents is by design inherently wrong.
Politicians put their own careers, vested interests and those of lobbyists before anything and everything.

The electorate need the power of recall.
We need far more transparency in everything our elected representatives do.
We need increased involvement at both local and national level with an introduction of a greater level of Direct Democracy.
We need a rolling Parliament whereby 50% of sitting MP's are up for re-election every two years.
Party allegiance should be abolished.

That's just a few things I wrote down as I'm counting down to pub o'clock.
I'm certain we can all add a few more and I'm not naïve or stupid enough not to realise thatthese would all throw up complications that would need ironing out.

But I'm just a nobody from North East England, I'm certain those more informed and educated could come up with something more robust and fit for purpose, ......but we need some sort of catalyst or for want of a better description a modern day King Arthur.

a reply to: eletheia

Farage is a one-trick pony, a shyster and a frustrated Tory.....but he has appeal and the 'ordinary man in the street' likes him.
And the EU are scared #less of him, with good right given his constant badgering of them.
I'd have him on the negotiating team, I wouldn't let him anywhere near the reigns of power!

EU's 30 plus ringbinders full?

I think the point was they'd done their homework, got their ducks in a row and knew exactly what they wanted and where their starting point was on everything related to Brexit.

We turned up with two pieces of paper with a few scribbles on written in the taxi on the way to the meeting.

The UK's approach has been a complete and utter farce and now the EU hold all the aces.

originally posted by: Freeborn

Farage is a one-trick pony, a shyster and a frustrated Tory.....but he has appeal and the 'ordinary man in the street' likes him.
And the EU are scared #less of him, with good right given his constant badgering of them.
I'd have him on the negotiating team, I wouldn't let him anywhere near the reigns of power!

I'd be happy with that ...... I'd quite like to see Farrage take Barnier on.

The UK's approach has been a complete and utter farce and now the EU hold all the aces.

Where as I agree with you there, May is a remainer in her soul and I firmly

believe what the leavers put out in scaremongering is FACT in a remainers eyes.

I dont believe the EU hold all the aces, its just they are playing with opponents

who are not in opposition with them but already on the same side as them.

instead of replacing the houses of parliament with another building full of shysters, how about doing away with elected reps altogether?
We have the technology now, why not let everyone have a vote on everything, propose laws etc via the net?
Could even have the debates online so that we can participate and maybe even influence each other ? Then, when the debate time is done, put it to a vote?

Seems to me, elected representatives are a hang over from a time when people couldn't take part in their democracy instantly.
Now we can.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
propose laws etc via the net?

Really?
Any law that will turn out against leftists/liberals will be blamed on Russian hackers etc. It's impossible with today's excuses.

a reply to: 1337Kph

seems to me we aren't being properly represented at the moment anyway.

Without these political parties, there would be no right and left anymore.


Sure there would still be a conflict between broadly socialist policies and broadly capitalist, but without the silly tribalism we have now where people are defined by who they vote for.

I do believe that May's betrayal of the people will start a fundamental shift in our politics. The time is right for a 3rd party, but it must hold the centre ground.

"May is a remainer in her soul "

Eh naw she is isnae as she has no soul!

I don't blame them from resigning. They are both Brexiteer's and the Brexit plan agreed at Chequers is not Brexit. It is an ultra soft Brexit.

Here are some details from the Chequers Brexit plan you may want to know...

Parliament will oversee the UK's trade policy and have the ability to "choose" to diverge from the EU rules, "recognising that this would have consequences".

So basically if we don't adopt any new rules the EU creates (and there are a lot of them), then the EU would be liable for some compensation.

A "mobility framework" will be set up to allow UK and EU citizens to travel to each other's territories, and apply for study and work.

So basically continuing with free movement.


Notice there hasn't been much outrage in the media over the Chequers Brexit plan because like I said, this is going to be an ultra soft Brexit, and that is what the media/remainers want.

BBC At-a-glance: The new UK Brexit plan agreed at Chequers

And the Chequers Brexit plan is what we are proposing to the EU, so it will most likely be watered down even more.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
instead of replacing the houses of parliament with another building full of shysters, how about doing away with elected reps altogether?
We have the technology now, why not let everyone have a vote on everything, propose laws etc via the net?
Could even have the debates online so that we can participate and maybe even influence each other ? Then, when the debate time is done, put it to a vote?

Seems to me, elected representatives are a hang over from a time when people couldn't take part in their democracy instantly.
Now we can.

lol I meditated on this in the ninties when I first acquired a housebrick/fillings heater/mobile phone. I suspect this idea will evolve over time. perhaps with sha-3 and 3-stage one-time pad verification this could become an embedded system within a citizens parliamentary process. I do know there are moves within the electoral commission to further a digital voting framework. concerns as read above ie external tamperings and abuse of a proposed system would require a full and intrusive beta test. perhaps the electoral commission would be willing to invite white-hats to test their system before rollout. I am sure this would get some hackers (ethical!) wet. It would be sensible to understand that the intelligence services both domestic and globally and third parties have the tools to either undermine this system or enhance it.
to entrust this to a private third-party would be seriously problematic and I would gladly endorse such a system if embedded within the governmental organ free of commercial influences pending cost/benefit analysis/favourable risk assessment.
f

originally posted by: 83Liberty
I don't blame them from resigning. They are both Brexiteer's and the Brexit plan agreed at Chequers is not Brexit. It is an ultra soft Brexit.

Here are some details from the Chequers Brexit plan you may want to know...

Parliament will oversee the UK's trade policy and have the ability to "choose" to diverge from the EU rules, "recognising that this would have consequences".

So basically if we don't adopt any new rules the EU creates (and there are a lot of them), then the EU would be liable for some compensation.

A "mobility framework" will be set up to allow UK and EU citizens to travel to each other's territories, and apply for study and work.

So basically continuing with free movement.


Notice there hasn't been much outrage in the media over the Chequers Brexit plan because like I said, this is going to be an ultra soft Brexit, and that is what the media/remainers want.

BBC At-a-glance: The new UK Brexit plan agreed at Chequers

not quite free movement. a visa will be required. we have already opted out of the mode 4 directive whilst negotiating our own in terms of tnc's (trans national corporations) under the wto framework and their ability to embed workers into individual states. btw german trades unions have expressed their concerns over the degradation of wages and conditions due to mode 4 directive within the eu from eastern states migrating westerly. the ecj (European court of justice) ruled in favour of the corporations over the workers on this matter which imo leads to a race to the bottom to remain competitive whilst lowering the living standards of an already established native workforce.
mode4 is otherwise know as social dumping.

I would say a merit-based system should be considered. don't allow in those that are known to be problematic to society.
tourist visa (global) should include a provision of an insurance bond (price and pay-out depending on risk faced) should that particular individual vanish into the crowd.
this money pool should then be utilised to track and find, process and repatriate said individuals.
f

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: oldcarpy

Yup. Voted remain, disappointed with the referendum results, far more dissapointed in the government's handling of Brexit talks (complete failure to come up with any plan, Davis turning up to the first EU negotiations with two pieces of paper and a clipboard compared to the EU's 30+ ringbinders full, no deal/bad deal as a result).

EU's 30 plus ringbinders full?

Looked impressive .... but full of what? All the rules and regulations to keep

us tethered to the EU.

They have been VERY negative in their stance, only replying *non* to anything

put on the table, never suggesting an alternative.

Negotiation is a two way thing - and the EU is a *brick wall*

It was the Constitutional/Public Admin files/Legal precedents/rulings/frameworks for the talks, they came fully prepared and equipped for the negotiations - we had nothing.

Agreed it's a two way thing but we knew the EU wasn't going to bend over for us, the complete failure to come up with any plan for Brexit or prepare for the meetings meant the EU were free to walk all over us. I don't think we can blame the EU for doing their jobs/homework.

Having said that I was pro-Remain providing the EU would undergo radical reform. The talks have changed my mind as it seems beyond reform, too fractured and bureaucratic. Replacing it with a new more representative, transparent and less bureaucratic one would be a great move for the UK.

in a less politically charged world, the Brexit would go smoothly, Trump would not have difficulty meeting with his friends in the UK, no one would resign from May's group, and the world would watch America, Russia, and break offs from the EU setting up new economic trade agreements, nation to nation.

Instead, British pounds are being spent on Giant Baby protest blimps and politicians with bad hair cuts are resigning. Politicians are supposed to have bad hair cuts. Clearly, something is wrong.

a reply to: skynet2015

I would say our own home grown wrongs should be a point of focus, primarily the exposure and revealing of the register of parliamentary members interests. that should throw a rather large spanner into the greasy mechanism.

the reveal of the enhanced list to the general public as I understand this is being met with some resistance. probably be talked out as well as ping-ponged. trouble is who would want to vote themselves out of a lucrative position and face the wrath of the electorate.

imo a mandate petition could be created to give notice in say two sittings to nail notice of intention to rid both chambers of these influences. that gives enough time for the members to cold turkey and to realise their choices. either one is for the people or one is for the corporate. to believe one could strike a balance between the two will eventually create a pinch-point as it seems the further we strive for fairness atm the more taxation and regulation is imposed upon us.

uk business should have it's own branch of transparent petitioning and lobbying devoid of cash-stuffed socks, pockets and underpants.
f

originally posted by: bastion

It was the Constitutional/Public Admin files/Legal precedents/rulings/frameworks for the talks, they came fully prepared and equipped for the negotiations - we had nothing.

Pure theatre......

They never had any intention of negotiating. Remember they weren't even

prepared to talk till they got a *cash settlement* for the divorce!!

Davis was never a salesman ..... to clinch the deal we needed a TRUMP?

So far the only party prepared to negotiate has been the UK.

Trading on May's parliamentary weakness Barnier et al have offered nothing but

sullen intransigence.

Agreed it's a two way thing but we knew the EU wasn't going to bend over for us, the complete failure to come up with any plan for Brexit or prepare for the meetings meant the EU were free to walk all over us. I don't think we can blame the EU for doing their jobs/homework.

They have done nothing but reject everything and anything put before them.

Boris Johnson was right in saying every meeting held the UK went in with the

white flag in front..... capitulation before the event!!!


And now Mrs May has come out with a diluted white paper which in no way

is a Brexit. but a capitulation to colonisation by the EU.

Mrs May needs to look at Merkle's position for having ridden rough shod over

the electorate her political survival is in decline.

Having said that I was pro-Remain providing the EU would undergo radical reform. The talks have changed my mind as it seems beyond reform, too fractured and bureaucratic.

Got it in one.