Zubrin and Dipole Drives

Here's an interesting article i came across about Robert Zubrin and his idea for what's called a Dipole Drive. If I'm understanding this correctly, the Dipole Drive uses the motion of protons and electrons to generate thrust.

Save Robert Zubrin has provided more details and analysis of his new dipole drive to Centauri Dreams. The main new information is Zubrin describes the relative simplicity of building simple double sail systems. * dipole drives are buildable to improve cubesat propulsion * dipole drives could be used to move around the earth and moon and reduce fuel usage * dipole could reduce trip times for space telescopes to gravitational lens points 500 AU away to less than ten years. This would be 2 to 5 times less than other gravitational lens missions. * power beaming could further enhance dipole drive performance Nextbigfuture covered Zubrin’s propellantles space sail concept in May. The dipole drive is made from two parallel screens, one charged positive, the other negative, creating an electric field between them with no significant field outside. Solar wind protons entering the dipole drive field from the negative screen side are reflected out, with the angle of incidence equaling the angle of reflection. This provides lift if the screen is placed at an angle to the plasma wind.

Sorry, ATS but you'll have to read the article to get the details but it sounds pretty cool. Zubrin used to be focused on Mars but now that focus seems to have shifted to more interstellar travel. I like the concept of a dipole drive. I had a similar idea years ago using magnets. In my idea you get two opposing magnets and you increase one of them to be more powerful than the other thus providing a push or a lift. Back to Zubrin. What says ATS?

www.nextbigfuture.com...

a reply to: lostbook



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The solarwind protons have to miss the positive side of the dipol, otherwise the impact impulse would create a complete annulment of the previously imported impulse forward by entering the field.

That is difficult.

Edit: actio and reactio, correct. And even if you make the positive pole a mesh for example, you would still have an effekt of stopping the accelerated particle which annules the forces.

a reply to: lostbook

Sounds like a combination of an electric sail and ion thruster.

I had a similar idea years ago using magnets. In my idea you get two opposing magnets and you increase one of them to be more powerful than the other thus providing a push or a lift.

That wouldn't work: Actio et Reactio

originally posted by: moebius
a reply to: lostbook

Sounds like a combination of an electric sail and ion thruster.

I had a similar idea years ago using magnets. In my idea you get two opposing magnets and you increase one of them to be more powerful than the other thus providing a push or a lift.

That wouldn't work: Actio et Reactio

I would want to see a working prototype. There isn't one yet from the article. Theory is great but there is a long way to go still on this idea.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
The solarwind protons have to miss the positive side of the dipol, otherwise the impact impulse would create a complete annulment of the previously imported impulse forward by entering the field.

That is difficult.

Edit: actio and reactio, correct. And even if you make the positive pole a mesh for example, you would still have an effekt of stopping the accelerated particle which annules the forces.

No different from tacking a yacht in the wind. You get the angle of your sail relative to where you want to head and the direction of the wind. The angle of reflected wind must point away from where you want to go, while the sail must face the wind.

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
The solarwind protons have to miss the positive side of the dipol, otherwise the impact impulse would create a complete annulment of the previously imported impulse forward by entering the field.

That is difficult.

Edit: actio and reactio, correct. And even if you make the positive pole a mesh for example, you would still have an effekt of stopping the accelerated particle which annules the forces.

No different from tacking a yacht in the wind. You get the angle of your sail relative to where you want to head and the direction of the wind. The angle of reflected wind must point away from where you want to go, while the sail must face the wind.

Cool. So, it's the same principle as a solar sail. Is the Dipole faster than a solar sail? I bet it is!

What about all the electrons flowing out from the Sun? Wouldn't they cancel the thrust out?

originally posted by: wildespace
What about all the electrons flowing out from the Sun? Wouldn't they cancel the thrust out?

Excellent question. I don't know. I suppose that electrons from the Sun would be a non factor because of what's said here;

"Protons are much more massive than the electrons, the thrust of the ion current is more than 42 times greater than the opposing electron thrust, providing net thrust."

The push from protons is 42 times greater than electrons so I think everything is good.