Land Expropriation Has Begun - Beginning of The End For South Africa?

But Africa is a nation with enough resources to be self-sustaining, moreso than any other continent.

Ugh, "Africa" is not a "nation", it's a continent, and made up of many different "nations" which have different histories, conflicts, ethnic makeups, and cultures and values.

Africa will be fine after a rough period. Once they breakaway from the table prepared for them and create their own table.

So far, this has proven incorrect. Again, I'll point to Zimbabwe as a simple barometer of what is to come in South Africa.

Yeah, I guess blacks never learned how to farm?

It's not that simple. (or that insulting). But, it is a fact that the farmers who have taken over the farms after the white farmers were ordered to leave, have yet to be successful at it. There are a myriad of reasons why, but that doesn't change the fact of what is. If you really want to know more about why:
www.nytimes.com...

Zimbabwe, once one of Africa's most prosperous nations, is now a country of hungry people.

Another poster summed it up really well on the last page...

The power should have been handed over in stages, over decades as people were trained to do the necessary functions to keep a modern society going. It is Zimbabwe all over again in many ways as impatience destroyed any chance of sane and peaceful transition.

Shutting off dialogue, remaining stuck in inflexible dogma cannot solve anything. Negotiation and concessions are how to keep the peace while still moving towards the future.

I see a lot of "us" against "them" in this thread. Not much working together or looking at root causes. Economic disparity is usually a root cause. Inequality is another. Unfair land, labor, election and property laws a third.

originally posted by: Slangtonomo

It has been argued that America persecuted a minority...

Hi Slangtonomo, welcome to ATS!
It seems the topic of this thread has great interest for you and your comments are welcome. I am very tired of the blanket statements being made about race, they are neither true or civil. America is not the topic at hand though so please stick to comments about land grabs in South Africa.
Cheers

I don't know, but isn't that persecuting a minority in that nation? Their government is Whack! I wonder if any country will start a war with them for how they are treating their people? That is what they did with Saddam Hussein.

Nope. Did it matter when the same thing happened in Zimbabwe?

Let's not kid ourselves, Saddam was taken out because he opposed the world banking system, not because of his treatment of the Kurds, or WMDs, etc.

To put it simply, no major power has a vested interest in SA, so they really aren't going to make a lot of noise about it. About the only ones who DO have a vested interest in it, are crime lords involved with the diamond mines, and you can bet your last buck in the bank the land grabbers are NOT going to tangle with them, hehe. (like bringing a knife to a gunfight)

A thread about how black people are savages and the white people are keeping africa alive...

Really can't understand peoples views on this thread

African History is suppressed its not as you are taught black people can live totally fine without the man you know as they have done for thousands of years previous whatever the false fake news history we are taught about Africa

a reply to: Misterlondon


Well maybe things have changed in Zimbabwe because all the Farmers are now welcome in Nigeria . Then suddenly giving white farmers their land back seems to be on the agenda . I here a few are happily farming in Georgia as well.

originally posted by: Slangtonomo

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: Asktheanimals

I don't know, but isn't that persecuting a minority in that nation? Their government is Whack! I wonder if any country will start a war with them for how they are treating their people? That is what they did with Saddam Hussein.

It has been argued that America persecuted a minority...

Yes it has. And it got a lot of publicity world wide because it it wrong. Sounds as though you don't think it is wrong anymore.

I have come to realize this over the last couple of years, any attempt to ask for help or open up a discussion regarding the current state of affairs in South Africa will simply be swept aside and the injustices taking place justified by a bunch of ignorant hypocrits.

My life has worth even if you don't want to accept it,
I was born in this country and I believe I have a say in the direction its going,
I refuse to be the object of somoene else's malevolent attempt at garnering votes.

Any argument trying to refute these facts I have no interest in entertaining and you can simply kiss my a$$ for all I care.

The majority control the narrative, which are black, and they are not being held accountable for the narrative they create or the consequences that follow it. I don't believe this is trademark of a democratic society but of something else.

Its time Africans stop pretending they're the only ones who have ever been the subjected to bias or pain. Every race and every creed throughout history has at some point hae been subjected to some sort of injustice. In fact, Afrikaners during the Anglo-boer war witnessed thousands of women and children perish in consentration camps but I don't see them moaning about it or making unreasonable claims a 100 years later.

Quite honestly I don't see things changing any time soon and I have lost all hope that the rest of the world will hold South Africa accountable. I don't actually care. If I am forced to use violence to protect myself or my loved ones than I will do so and I don't care what anyone has to say about it. I'll be as ignorant as my enemies.

originally posted by: Slangtonomo

originally posted by: SaturnFX
So a ton of black SA folks are going to go and take farms..divide it up, set their roots down, and then starve because they destroyed all the farmland to have a bit of squatting land

Guess we should get those care packages ready. USA always flips the bill for other nations stupidity

Yeah, I guess blacks never learned how to farm?

Hmm, since I never said anything even remotely close to that, then I have to conclude such ideas came from your head. You might want to address your racism

a reply to: theruthlessone

And that's why every few years we hear about the endless wars, lawlessness, genocides, famines, diseases, etc., that take place in Africa and get asked to once again donate money to help?

Yes, Africans had and have their own cultures.

There are some nations that are working their way into the modern world with the rest of us.

But the lessons Zimbabwe learned from land expropriation were harsh ones. They went from a prosperous farming country that kept Africa supplied with food to a basket case of subsistence agriculture. What happened? The people who were given the land didn't know what to do with it, so it foundered and the productivity dried up.

None of that says that blacks can't farm. I live in the US. I know they can. Plenty do here.

But the ones given the farms in Zimbabwe sure didn't know a thing about it, so they basically destroyed them rather than using them.

South Africa is dead set to repeat the same pattern and they will realize the same results.

Yea, we did the same thing.

Natives, Hawaiians, the Caribbean, even Haiti and Puerto Rico.

But we did it to brown people so it's okay.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The politics of hate, resentment and liberation will bear their bitter fruit.

That's why I'm worried about the rhetoric coming out of certain camps in the US.

originally posted by: cenpuppie
Yea, we did the same thing.

Natives, Hawaiians, the Caribbean, even Haiti and Puerto Rico.

But we did it to brown people so it's okay.

WE did not!

The people who came here in the 1600's did!

Not even my relatives who came from Ireland in the 1890's! Keep your ignorance to yourself. Sick of that nonsense. Take your America and white hate somewhere else sick of the racism.

originally posted by: theruthlessone
A thread about how black people are savages and the white people are keeping africa alive...

Really can't understand peoples views on this thread

African History is suppressed its not as you are taught black people can live totally fine without the man you know as they have done for thousands of years previous whatever the false fake news history we are taught about Africa

Exactly!! matter of fact there are 3 independent cradles of Agriculture in Africa , which gave rise to high complex civilizations, along with their independent discovery of iron, and that's the reason why Africa is full of Africans and did not need the patronizing hand of European settlers

Many Africans however are subsistence farmers,with small family plots, many Euro/American farmers are commercial farmers , it's the story of the mom and pop stores vs Walmart.

Zimbabwe, the corruption is evident but let's not kid ourselves access to farm machines and cash were denied, that folks here let the Brits off the hook for the ultimate break down in negotiations is quite telling.

But here we are, the fact still remains that most oldline South Africans had their lands taken, and were kept impoverished ,I get the feeling most respondents here are fine with that as long as there are no pain whatsoever to white folks.
BTW when I said most Africans are subsistence farmers is true, however in places like Ghana 18th and 19th century Africans were heavy commercial farmers whose industries kept the west running before oil outside of whaling , was a thing.

They are just eager to build Wakanda forever...ROFL! As soon as the last civilized white people leave it will turn into a #hole like the rest....

I try to look at this for what it is, but inevitably I end up seeing the same thing over and over again...

A nation of immigrants fighting among themselves for land with black people trying to take "their fair share" from white people. And why does that sound so familiar?

originally posted by: ATSAlex
They are just eager to build Wakanda forever...ROFL! As soon as the last civilized white people leave it will turn into a #hole like the rest....

Err Alex, they turned much of Africa into a "shthole" 16th century Euros found much of Africa thriving.
Here are some eyewitness quotes.

In 1691, the Portuguese ship captain Lourenco Pinto observed: “Great Benin, where the king resides, is larger than Lisbon; all the streets run straight and as far as the eye can see. The houses are large, especially that of the king, which is richly decorated and has fine columns. The city is wealthy and industrious. It is so well governed that theft is unknown and the people live in such security that they have no doors to their houses.”

In contrast, London at the same time is described by Bruce Holsinger, professor of English at the University of Virginia, as being a city of “thievery, prostitution, murder, bribery and a thriving black market made the medieval city ripe for exploitation by those with a skill for the quick blade or picking a pocket”.
www.theguardian.com...

Ibn Battuta after seeing the great cities of China Persia and Iraq described the East African city states thus.

"We ... traveled by sea to the city of Kulwa [Kilwa in East Africa]...Most of its people are Zunuj, extremely black... The city of Kulwa is amongst the most beautiful of cities and most elegantly built......Their uppermost virtue is religion and righteousness and they are Shafi'i in rite."
Ibn Battuta, A.D. 1331 

fine buildings, spacious houses, churches with much gold, and gardens.
There is a quarter in it inhabited by Muslims . . . they have well bred horses and Arab camels. Their religion is Jacobite Christianity and their bishops come from the patriarch of Alexandria ... and their books are in Greek which they translate into their own language.-

Ibn Selim el Aswani,
description of Soba, Alwah(Christian Nubia.

I could go on and on but by now even the densest among you can get the picture.
Axum in what is now called Ethiopia is the closest nation to what fictional Wakanda is as it was one of the four great world power of the day, among China, Persia and the Byzantine Romans, never been conquered.

a reply to: ketsuko

Africa has been pillaged for centuries, the history taught in school is totally different to what we are taught in Pan African class, Africa wasn't all the lawless raping savaging mud hut living that the white man would you like you to believe

A perfect example of this is the widely believed richest man in history who was a black African man Mansa Musa you won't find that taught in school or how he shared his wealth, infact lets just see how the media compare a rich black to a rich white man... if there is one thing i have learnt in my 35 years is that the black race has to be put down at every media chance

" Mansa Musa I ruled West Africa’s Malian Empire in the early 1300s, making his fortune by EXPLOITING his country’s salt and gold production. Many mosques he built as a young man still stand today.

After Mansa Musa I death in 1331, however, his heirs were unable to hang on to the fortune, and it was substantially depleted by civil wars and invading armies.

Second on the list are the Rothschild family, whose descendants are still among the richest people on the planet. Starting out in banking in the late 18th Century, Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s finance house accumulated a total wealth of $350 billion. The money has since been divided between hundreds of descendants, many of whom are business leaders today.

Meanwhile John D. Rockefeller, third on the list, is the richest American to have ever lived, worth $340billion in today's USD at the time of his death in 1937.

In comparison, the poorest man on the list is 82-year-old Warren Buffett, who at his peak net worth, before he started giving his fortune to charity, was $64billion. "

Notice how the only rich person on the list EXPLOITING anyone is the black man.... and that right there is what black people have to put up with day in day out

Source : www.independent.co.uk...

a reply to: theruthlessone

As if the Rockefellers and Rothschilds only made "good business deals" but never "exploited" anything.
Sad.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

We got taught about him in pan african school on sundays when i was a child, In the UK we have black history month and at school i was expelled from History because all we learned about in Black History month was about the slave trade and Martin Luther King, but i knew the real history but me bringing this up was apparently a disruption

So at the age of 12 - 15 i was starting to learn how black history is actually suppressed around the 1300's Africa was known as a utopia of wonderful riches and Musa who 99% of people have never even heard of ruled a vast land and he actually shared much of his wealth ( he gave that much gold away on a trip to cairo he caused mass inflation )

There is a basic article here that really sums up how in 1300's Africa was a thriving economic powerhouse with lavish houses etc..... The mud huts, poverty and black people are savages really came about after they was invaded, pillaged enslaved and basically destroyed before a false african history was written

If you haven't heard of Mansa Musa ask your self why....

uk.businessinsider.com...-keita-i-came-into-power-in-1312-at-the-time-much-of-europe-was-str uggling-and-and-facing-declining-gold-and-silver-production-while-many-african-kingdoms-were-thriving-1

This is just one example..... Im glad i know the truth about Africa