Ruth Marcus of The WaPo: I would’ve aborted a fetus with Down syndrome.

I can't afford a normal child yet, let alone a special needs child.

A special needs child has special needs. Medical expenses and care above healthy babies needs, along with massive time requirements.

I would abort and try again.

It would probably take a parent with a high paying job, and high enough that one parent could stay home full time.

Then it would take that high stress marriage working out forever, which in today's society is like 50/50 and dropping.

If you beat the odds and stay together forever, you will both die anyway and the person will need care from another generation after you are gone.

There is a good chance they will never be functioning self sustaining adults.

If you decide to have it out of guilt, then you aren't being realistic.

There are some nasty sides to mother nature that can, and should be limited from the gene pool.

Of course they are cute, they are babies and babies are cute, just like puppies.

We don't breed disfigured dogs, even if we keep the three legged one because it's fun.

Why are we even having this weird discussion?

Nobody will run SJW based interference for over-taxation?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: ketsuko

Drawing first breath of air is a sign that a fetus has received a soul. The moment of first breath kicks off a flood of neurotransmitters and hormones that are unique to birth, and the circulatory system undergoes a profound and permanent change. That would be the difference.

Really?
Provide medical links to the :
1) first breath of air is a sign that a fetus has received a soul
2) moment of first breath kicks off a flood of neurotransmitters and hormones that are unique to birth.

a reply to: Violater1

1) Ensoulment at first breath is a widely ignored Biblical teaching. It is not relevant to this conversation unless you insist on using religion to steer legislation (which would be WRONG).

2) Circulatory changes at moment of birth. Citations are at the bottom of the linked article.

3) Role of neurotransmitters during fetal development and at birth.

At birth, there is a surge of neurotransmitters such as catecholamines, which may be of importance for the neonatal adaptation.

That pic with the slave holding that baby is totally classless.

However drew that needs to be checked, those two arent anything alike.

originally posted by: wasobservingquietly
Maybe if abortions were harder to come by, women would be more vigilant about birth control.

The difficulty in being able to have an abortion has never been a consideration

women in the past have risked their own lives in procuring an abortion......that

is the desperation of a woman with an unwanted pregnancy. Dont even ask where

the other half of the pregnancy concerned is in all probability 'long gone' OR

'not their business'

Desperation drove up to 1.2 million women per year to terminate their pregnancies in the 1950s and 1960s, even though it meant putting their lives and health at risk./ex]

Conversely, legalized abortion saves women’s lives. Deaths from abortion declined fivefold between 1973 and 1985 (an immediate, positive impact of the Roe v. Wade decision), and they are now a rarity. What’s more, legal abortion enables women to obtain abortions earlier in pregnancy — when it is safest — thereby reducing the risk of complications.

One cannot claim to respect the sanctity life and also be willing to impose deadly consequences on a large faction of the population. While abortions are generally on the decline, which is good news, studies suggest between one third and one quarter of women will have an abortion during their reproductive years. Stripping away the legal right to abortion care won’t save lives. It will only jeopardize women’s health and wellbeing.

www.nbcnews.com...

Always surprises me that the biggest proponents against abortion are men!!!

Did I see something about the morning after pill, supposedly soon to be over the counter?

Is that just another form of abortion ?? only earlier than most!!

a reply to: eletheia


But in the 1950's & 60's the only forms of birth control available, were condoms or the 'rhythm' method!
One reason why women were desperate! Even in the early 70's, there were doctors who would not prescribe
the 'pill' to unmarried women & pharmacists who would not fill it!

If I definitely didn't want to get pregnant, I would be using more than one method of birth control!
I wouldn't trust even a 99% rate of effectiveness! Case in point...our daughter got pregnant with twins
while she was taking the pill! She never missed a dose or took it late. The doctor said, it was because she
had been sick for a couple of days & had diarrhea, her system didn't absorb the pills! Luckily, they wanted
children. They just hadn't planned on any that soon!

Yes, I suppose technically, the morning after pill could be considered a form of abortion. As would an IUD
& some oral contraceptives, as they all keep a fertilized egg from implanting. An egg which cannot survive
without implanting. Which to me, though I am antiabortion, is a much better option, than ripping a growing, implanted fetus from it's mother!

WOQ

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Violater1

1) Ensoulment at first breath is a widely ignored Biblical teaching. It is not relevant to this conversation unless you insist on using religion to steer legislation (which would be WRONG).

2) Circulatory changes at moment of birth. Citations are at the bottom of the linked article.

3) Role of neurotransmitters during fetal development and at birth.

At birth, there is a surge of neurotransmitters such as catecholamines, which may be of importance for the neonatal adaptation.

"Ensoulment at first breath is a widely ignored Biblical teaching ." This is a ridicules statement that is not found in the Christian Bible.
I do admit, I have never read the satanic bible.
Your second postulation you allude as if "At birth" is the ONLY time hormones and neurotransmitter are flowing. Again, you are WRONG. During the entire pregnancy, these chemicals are flowing. But you knew that, right?
Please read Avery's Diseases of the Newborn, pages 48-49.

originally posted by: Sublimecraft

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
I am definitely pro-abortion. I'm pro-abortion in pretty much all cases. Not just the ones like this. The way I see it if you don't have at least a million dollars in the bank you have no business having kids. And even then it's pointless on a planet with 7 billion people (and a good chunk of them struggling to survive).

In my opinion, you have missed the concept of existence. We do not exist because money, money is a human construct.

The point is that money is the basis of civilization. If you're going to live in a society that's based on money, you are going to have to realize that if you reproduce and your kids consume more than they produce, that is going to cause problems. And people are going to notice. But they won't necessarily blame it on you. They WILL try to solve the problems in a roundabout way, however.

And that's the real reason prison exists. It's a holding pen for useless people. It might even be seen as a home for the homeless. And humans are better at producing useless excess than we are at anything else.

The reality is that without money in this society, you're probably going to end up in prison eventually. So if someone has no money and they make babies they can have a pretty good expectation that is not a wise choice.

That's reality. America is seen as one of the best places to live. And it might be. If you're lucky. But even here there are many people living hard. There are (obviously) places where it's much worse. Even the poorest people in America can see hope. Even if they have no real hope of ever getting there.

At the end of the day, money may be a construct but it's based on the idea that it represents real physical resources. Which means that if those resources don't exist, the economy fails. Period. It's like writing a bad check.

originally posted by: cenpuppie
That pic with the slave holding that baby is totally classless.

However drew that needs to be checked, those two arent anything alike.

English much?

originally posted by: schuyler
Abortion proponents claim their body is their own and they can do what they want. "Our Bodies Ourselves" and all that. It's hard to imagine a more selfish stance.

Let me imagine one for you....

I did a cursory Google search for "How many homeless people are there in the world" and here's the first thing that popped up...

The last time a global survey was attempted – by the United Nations in 2005 – an estimated 100 million people were homeless worldwide. As many as 1.6 billion people lacked adequate housing

So...picture this. A woman and a man are having a heart to heart about having a kid (which probably rarely happens in reality). They both acknowledge the fact that they have no money, no house, aging cars that are falling apart and the father has a drug/alcohol habit. They also have college bills, medical problems and bad genetics.

A passerby asks them "So wait. You have all these problems and you want to have kids? Why?"

"Because that's what we want" is the only reply they have.

How is that not unbelievably selfish?

One way or another that body got pregnant. Accident or on purpose, if not forced, it doesn't matter. That body made that choice.

Yes, and once that baby is born, that couple is only obligated to take responsibility for it for 18 years. And many don't even want that much responsibility so the kid ends up basically abandoned. If not financially, emotionally. Once those 18 years are done, every problem that kid has becomes society's problem. You probably don't want to spend 80% of your income paying for other people's mistakes (or just plain reckless living). Am I wrong?

The thing is, you don't have to keep him after the nine months. You can trot over to the nearest fire station and leave him and never look back.

The thing is, if you want a kid, you can always adopt one who was left at the nearest fire station (and probably inherited every health problem known to mankind). You don't have to make more of your own. There are millions of homeless people. Drive into any city and pick one off the street and say "I don't have enough bills to pay so I'll take you home with me and help you out".

So would I. Lots of families make that heart breaking decision. You see fewer and fewer people born with downs now because it's detectable in a sonogram even if it needs to be confirmed by amniocentesis.
I know because they thought my youngest son had downs. The most heartbreaking ten days of my life was spent waiting for those test results. Thankfully he is fine. A healthy twenty two year old who is joining the Navy next month. But I can honestly say that I would only have two sons if that test had come back positive.
Downs is not just mental retardation it's physical. Blindness, heart disease, muscle and coordination issues thyroid conditions hearing loss and an inability to fight off infections are all part and parcel for people with downs syndrom. It's a lifetime of ill health.

a reply to: Mandroid7

When did radio waves become hazardous? AM I kind of understand...But FM too? Lol

a reply to: Violater1

Believe what you want about the Bible. Unless you look deeper than the English translations, you won't come remotely close to understanding it.

I didn't say neurotransmitters were absent from the gestating fetus. I said that they flood the brain at birth, because birth is unlike any other stress event in your life.

a reply to: Violater1

I was a baby my birth mother loved enough to give up for adoption. I think God anf my mother every day for giving me a chance!

Abortion is murder!

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Violater1

Believe what you want about the Bible. Unless you look deeper than the English translations, you won't come remotely close to understanding it.


Evidently ENGLISH is required...(see above when the OP berates another ATS™ member because He doesn't understand what has been typed. In some circles this is called a "personal attack"..)

Where are ALL these PRO-LIFE™ folks AFTER all these kids are born? They want reductions in Aid but also want the kids born?

You better also narrow down which Bible™ the OP wants to use.


Was the original Bible™ written in the King's English? How many revisions?

It's no wonder why it's a proven statistic that conservatives adopt more children than progressives!

Look at all these wonderful and virtuous individuals who have rock-solid morals and an ethical approach to life that should be applauded.

Lol, just kidding, I made that up - they don't give a #, they just like to make themselves sound like paragons of humanity.

To quote an ATS poster who shall remain nameless: "I don't care how many kids die in schools, my rights are more important!"

True paragons of humanity here, they would never just virtue signal and try to play moral crusader on the internet.

Never.

a reply to: Violater1

if i was a woman or if my gf/wife got pregnant and the baby was found to have a severe disability i would be okay with an abortion.

rape/medical issues are the only reason i can accept abortion.

why bring a child with severe medical issues that will only lead to a tortured existence? i dont care what anyone else says humans born 'not normal' can live truly normal lives are deluded.

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: Violater1

if i was a woman or if my gf/wife got pregnant and the baby was found to have a severe disability i would be okay with an abortion.

rape/medical issues are the only reason i can accept abortion.

why bring a child with severe medical issues that will only lead to a tortured existence? i dont(sic) care what anyone else says humans born 'not normal' can live truly normal lives are deluded.

What a sad person you are. I had previously thought different, but you certainly corrected the record.
Here are just a drop in the ocean examples, of successful children with Down's syndrome. And you want to murder them all!




But I bet you won't even watch the first video because " humans born 'not normal' can live truly normal lives are deluded."
By the way, the color is Maroon, it's a play on words. Get it?

a reply to: DBCowboy

BWAHAHAHA..


You think people are murdering children , and yet alll you do about it is complain on a cheesey conspiracy forum, lol?!?!


That is not the correct reaction if someone actually believed people are murdering children...


If abortion is murder the people assassinating abortion doctors are right.


That is how anyone with sense knows it is all just propaganda.

If my neighbor is gonna kill his kids at 9am tomorrow. I kick in the door, law be damned..

So why do conservatives only complain about it while taking no action??

Because no one thinks it is murder..

a reply to: Violater1

Then why don’t we let people with Down’s syndrome have sex and/or breed????