Free Will or the Illusion of freedom.

Does free will really exist or is just an illusion of freedom?
Do you really think you can do whatever you want? or is just the illusion of freedom of choosing between so many options?

Are we really free to choose our path? or our lives are already defined by a set of choices that, in the end will get us to the same place no matter what we choose?

a reply to: Abednego

I think suicide is the greatest expression of free will .

I dunno about you but God has not interfered in my life


doesn't that mean we're free to choose?

Well I can go down town and get a couple Porterhouses and grill them when I get home. I have decent tap water 24/7 and can shower whenever it pleases me. I can drive my SUV any time I want, anywhere I want. I can choose any religion I have a mind to, or abstain from that as well.

I have the best ability to have any education in the world. I can visit with most any friend or relative I want.
If that's not freedom..... well then freedom just becomes a word.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Abednego

I think suicide is the greatest expression of free will .

I see it the other way around. suicide is the rendition to another's will (you become a slave).

a reply to: Abednego

Depends on who the "other" is .

a reply to: Abednego

I’m on the illusion side.

If someone puts a gun to your head , are you choosing to die??
No..

If you are born to a billionaire, are you choosing to grow up wealthy??

No..


If some natural disaster destroys your shelter, are you choosing to find new shelter??

Not really.

originally posted by: njord
I dunno about you but God has not interfered in my life


doesn't that mean we're free to choose?

Think about it, the choices are already there. You did not choose whatever you want, you choose the options that were already there.

Are we really free to choose our path?

It's painfully obvious the only freedom you have is what the mob allows.

a reply to: Plotus

That is the issue, what you think is freedom is something that was already set. You made a decision on choices that were pre-settled.
Anything you do is about choosing the alternatives you have.

a reply to: Abednego

You did not choose whatever you want, you choose the options that were already there

We can't choose to be Martians but we might be able to create options to move there . Having more choices only means we have more choices to make . Aside from birth and possibly death we are stuck in this . And one has to imagine that even at conception we decided to beat the other guy to the eggs .

a reply to: neo96

It's painfully obvious the only freedom you have is what the mob allows.

There were a lot of draft dodgers who moved to Canada back in the day .

a reply to: JoshuaCox

- You did not choose to die, but earlier decisions put you into that position.

- You did not choose to grow up wealthy, but even with all the money you can choose how to live.

- If your shelter is destroyed, the most probable thing you do is to get another shelter.

"Freedom" is relative as to how many choices we have.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Abednego

You did not choose whatever you want, you choose the options that were already there

We can't choose to be Martians but we might be able to create options to move there . Having more choices only means we have more choices to make . Aside from birth and possibly death we are stuck in this . And one has to imagine that even at conception we decided to beat the other guy to the eggs .

You are getting close.
For the ability to choose an option has to exist before. Even if we do not choose anything the option is there. Even doing nothing is an option.

a reply to: Abednego
Civilization progresses in tech and creature comforts. Are there restraints ? Yes, there are licenses and permits required. That was not always so, but mans greed led to ways to protect things from being plundered.
The Occidental man is very little like the Asian man or African man... the choices quite different or sometimes at odds. If you want total freedom to be a vagabond, bug-out you are free to, or if you want to live a life of choices being made for you there is the military. High population areas might make your feeling of freedom suspect.

But if you reflect on the past and human history, it is likely that you will find 'wild individuals or groups' gravitating towards civilization, that is, regions or population centers, that over time implement rules of behavior lest there be chaos and loss of life. Are there tyrants..... of course, it has always been so. But they have very often met a brutal end in favor of a fair and liberated life for the ordinary man/woman.

Is there room for improvement..? Well of course. Utopia is not possible, it is an oxymoron.
Remember, this is only MY opinion, based on a lifetime of observation and living in the United States. Which I might Add, I have been able to move around in to suit my choice of regional flavor and culture characteristics.

Abednego

I am curious, what are your thoughts ?

a reply to: Abednego

Free will and destiny are two different things, imo...

Case in point, I'll personally always be miserable and will never succeed in life... that's my destiny... But, I have the freewill to either just give up now, or just do my time on this little blue dot and ride it out till the end...

My freewill gives me the ability to say, "I don't care if I'm welcome or not"... because I choose to stay til destiny decides to take me out and I literally collapse from cancer or some other horrible illness.

a reply to: Abednego

Good Abe. I think this to be the second most important question of our existence. It comes right before the most important question. The answer to your question is maybe, maybe not. Once we know that we can then ask the most important question. If we do have free will then ok, fine. But if we do not have free will, how do we get it?

We can read about all the new studies and neuro findings that tell us that for the most part all of our actions and thoughts are routine, that they are just logical a leads to b leads to c to d to e responses. The key word there is most. Realizing that most of our consciousness is really just unconscious patterned response will allow us to focus on that small amount of what we consider ourselves to be and there we might find, or nurture what little freewill we have.
That make any sense?

History repeat itself.
It does not matter how advance a civilization become or how advance the technology, history will repeat itself. Those thing will only delay the outcome.
Even if we can travel into space, the choices we have are the same. The scenario just got bigger.

a reply to: Abednego

Your title has "free will" and freedom in it . These are two different things . When someone holds a gun to your head they probably give you a choice to make . "wallet" or die .