Race colorblindness vs Race consciousness.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

The question is how much those alleles really mean in the overall scheme of things.

Does anyone assign special importance to whether or not someone has blue eyes over brown, for example?

What about the many different shades of brown or blonde hair?

Everyone more or less just accepts these things as quirks of superficial genetics. They're nice cosmetic differences, but really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Shouldn't skin color and eye shape and superficial difference in nose, jaw, etc., be relegated to the same bin?

What really separates people are their cultural differences, and those are not inborn. Raise a caucasian baby in China by Chinese parents, and that child will be more Chinese than the ethnically Chinese kid raised by white American parents.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
The question is how much those alleles really mean in the overall scheme of things.

There's an easy answer to that.
Sweet F*** All.

That's why it's important to understand.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar
The question is how much those alleles really mean in the overall scheme of things.

There's an easy answer to that.
Sweet F*** All.

That's why it's important to understand.

Then you don't have to make it complicated.

Like we told our kid when he asked: Just like daddy has black hair and mommy has blonde hair, some people have skin that's lighter and darker. He said, "Oh."

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: burgerbuddy

How about sickle cell and booze intolerance? 

Sickle cell is also found in southern Europe and booze intolerance a bunch of folks from desperate parts of the globe are booze intolerant.

HEY! Awesome!

You know stuff!

Especially that booze part!

a reply to: ketsuko

So looking for the truth is making it complicated?

Lies like the Aryan race is superior are just as damaging as lies like there is no such thing as race.
How are we supposed to deal with issues without honesty?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

You are the one who just got done saying it doesn't mean anything.

If race is just superficial and the real division lies in culture, then I fail to see why it matters what color your skin is vis a vis mine, and I fail to see why I should tell my child it is vitally important unlike noticing different hair and eye colors.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If this is the case would you agree that denying differences which exist is a bad way to confront the race problem?

No one is denying differences. Again, what I’m denying is the failed taxonomy.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Spider879
a reply to: burgerbuddy

How about sickle cell and booze intolerance? 

Sickle cell is also found in southern Europe and booze intolerance a bunch of folks from desperate parts of the globe are booze intolerant.

Sickle cell would be something it would make sense to find in people who live wherever malaria is very present since one copy of the gene is beneficial for survival as it makes you malaria resistant. It's when you have two that the problem arises.

It is less important now that there are effective malaria treatments, but that doesn't remove the genetic legacy.

Ok, sickle cell is found in africa and parts of the Med.

In people of different melanin skin content.

There is an enzyme absent in asians/ect. that make them less able to process alcohol through the liver.

Like I said, I'm not sure what this is about.

I see color, I hear music too. Accents, clothing, foods.

I see differences. I like differences until I don't. Like anyone else.

Don't shove your difference down my throat.

I don't have to like your difference, nor you mine.

Doesn't mean we can't be civil.

Beddy bye time. Sweet dreams!

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

You are the one who just got done saying it doesn't mean anything.

If race is just superficial and the real division lies in culture, then I fail to see why it matters what color your skin is vis a vis mine, and I fail to see why I should tell my child it is vitally important unlike noticing different hair and eye colors.

Where did I say you should tell your child it is vitally important?
Where did I say it matters what colour skin is?

You've misunderstood me.

I'm saying that it's provably irrelevant.
But it can only be provably irrelevant if you accept that race actually does exist.

Deny race exists and you deny the the ability to show it's irrelevant.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If this is the case would you agree that denying differences which exist is a bad way to confront the race problem?

No one is denying differences. Again, what I’m denying is the failed taxonomy.

Doesn't that link show that it's not a failed taxonomy and that opposed to what you have been saying race does provably exist with the evidence being allele frequencies.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If this is the case would you agree that denying differences which exist is a bad way to confront the race problem?

No one is denying differences. Again, what I’m denying is the failed taxonomy.

Doesn't that link show that it's not a failed taxonomy and that opposed to what you have been saying race does provably exist with the evidence being allele frequencies.

No it doesn’t. The author you have cited has been roundly criticized by geneticists and biologists for abusing the data for his own purposes. In his book Troublesome Inheritance he makes the same argument, using studies that don’t even use the word race to defend the belief in race.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Could you point me to an example of this?

Edit to add...
www.huffingtonpost.com...
All good, this is him defending himself but he cites the people opposing him so I've got somewhere to start.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar



I'm saying that it's provably irrelevant.
But it can only be provably irrelevant if you accept that race actually does exist.

Im having a hard time understanding the logic here.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Race has a difference of 0.0something.

If you say race doesn't exist then you cannot show that the difference is 0.0something.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If you examine the facts and realize that race doesn't exist, then the entire notion is laid bare as the absurdity it is.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

If you examine the facts and realize that race doesn't exist, then the entire notion is laid bare as the absurdity it is.

I'm trying to do that right now.
I'm not at the point of realising race doesn't exist yet.

I'm looking into population genetics now.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

The simplest line for me to understand:

There is more variability within any population of "race" than between any populations of "race".

Meaning that me and the average white guy have less (genetically) in common than the average white guy and the average black guy.

If skin color can change in 2 or 3 generations without the introduction of outside DNA, skin color is a terrible mode of taxonomy.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Where is that line from?

I'm just looking at "Revisiting Race in a Genomic Age" which was cited as a repudiation of Nicholas Wade which says "...humans are overwhelmingly genetically identical; racial ancestry accounts for a very tiny sliver of of human genetic diversity."

I'm really trying to prove myself wrong here but I must be looking in the wrong places.

OK, this guy explains it quite well.
Divisions are important when it comes to kidney transplant.
Divisions are irrelevant when it comes to fairness.
So basically race is real and racism is wrong.

I guess I still need help as I can only find stuff that agrees with me.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

SO then...what of a mixed child recieving a transplant? Is it just hopeless?

Its not race, its genome and blood type.

You can look and find sources that say just about anything. Most of them lay out on the fringe. The vast majority of people in the field believe there is no race, and have held said belief since the 1950's.