The blowhole

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Raggedyman
Yep your reading comprehension is as lacking as ever. Try again neighbour.

The kiwi's nostrils moved down the skull while dolphins and whales up.

Yeah its me, not your lame duck analogies, what a silly answer

Kiwis and dolphins, ducks and drakes, watching you bounce is kinda fun

a reply to: Raggedyman
Prove it is silly. Or admit you are trolling.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You claim it is silly. But all science that you don't agree with you claim as such. Thus you have made a claim. Back it up. Or Hutchens razor applies.

Stop the bickering....

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a reply to: Noinden

My apologies - I misread something. I looked a bit more into it. It seems that the brain case stayed behind what were once nostrils. Still though, blowholes are weird. Just weird as hell. A sperm whales' blowhole actually stayed up front. Some blowholes are binary, some are single holes (it seems).

It appears that 2 of the main thing that separates cetaceans from other sea mammals are the ability to give birth at sea as well as the blowhole adaptation.

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: Noinden

Consider at one point then that it was right between their eyes. Did it also split their brains in half on its way up?

Shockingly, it actually split them in to two whales joined only by a string of mucus and shared flipper - they later rejoined into the single bodied whales that we recognise today a couple of million years ago. Ish. Obviously no aliens were involved as that's just silly.

a reply to: Raggedyman

In your original question you didn't mention anything about location of the blowhole with respect to the eye ridge.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I wonder why we dont see other animals or find fossils of animals that have the blowhole slowly receeding back to their... what ever the position the blow hole is situated on is called
Interesting thinking there Fools, very deep.

You asked for examples of animals where the blow hole is slowly receding back, which is exactly what TerryDon79 provided, three examples where the blowhole appears progressively further back along the snout. It demonstrates exactly what you asked for so i don't see how it could be classified as pointless.

If you need to see an example with the hole further back, try Cotylocara macei

blogs.cofc.edu... fossil-feature-cotylocara-macei/

a reply to: Donner

What he also missed (from my example of the Kiwi (the bird, not the fruit) is that these are not the ONLY creatures where the nostrils have moved on the skull. Mind you inconvenient truths and all that jazz

a reply to: Noinden

Was that meant to me? My take on evolution is this. It is the most reasonable theory we humans have to explain things of that nature.

However, I also think that the theory is far from complete. Especially considering the theory that I am seeing going around now that DNA is programmable by its nature.

Does that mean that God or nature does the programming? I have no idea. No one does. It's fun to think about for me. I that is why I think the blowhole is interesting - it is an amazing adaptation regardless of any way that anyone thinks. Nature is amazing.

originally posted by: Fools
a reply to: Noinden

However, I also think that the theory is far from complete. Especially considering the theory that I am seeing going around now that DNA is programmable by its nature.

Code needs something to code it. When was the last time you found a working macbook pro result from a hurricane in a junkyard? We are complex intelligent assembled forms, yet we as intelligent agents can even convince ourselves we are meaningless children of chaos. The scientific priesthood was originally a reaction to religious oppression, but now science has taken that role, and the truths of Christ were buried along with the secular attempts to prove their meaningless theories.

There exists a wondrous prize for anyone who can look past the deceptive "teachers of the law" and come to realize their true nature. Belief in evolution is ultimately an anchor you must let go to realize your spiritual reality. Or you can cling on to the sinking ship - it's up to you.

a reply to: Donner

Yes TD, as you have, offered evidence of animals with blow holes possibly moving back, but only part of the way
There are no fossils I have seen with Blowholes From the brow ridge back even the link you posted posits the blowhole before the skull, not after

I don't understand why you can't comprehend that

Whatever, believe what you want

Cotylocara has a blowhole before the skull, it is useless in context to what I asked for
As useless in context as a kiwi bird, totally unrelated to swimming creatures

a reply to: Fools

No not you. Who was Donner replying too?

a reply to: cooperton

Yet DNA self assembles You keep mistaking DNA for binary code. You claim to be a chemist, yet you can't understand that the DNA properties are all to do with the chemistry.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: cooperton

Yet DNA self assembles

It assembles due to mathematically predictable electromagnetic forces. We all know that mathematics require intelligence. To continue to claim this world was made from randomness is a persistent insanity.

a reply to: cooperton

Ahh the alleged certainty logical fallacy.

Care to prove your position of mathematics requires intelligence?

Stop with the non logical, non scientific arguments neighbour.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: cooperton

Ahh the alleged certainty logical fallacy.

Care to prove your position of mathematics requires intelligence?

Ask a rock to solve a math equation. It's obvious - Mathematics requires intelligence. The fact you are trying to refute this obvious postulate shows how hell-bent you are at ignoring any sort of intelligent agency that is involved in the persistence of this world. Your material reductionist religion is a mental poverty that perverts people's perspective on reality. It is much more dangerous than you think to teach such backwards beliefs, and you are being careless regarding the dissemination of the truth.

a reply to: cooperton

You are confusing, the solving of mathematics, with the properties. DNA will self assemble, whether we understand it or not.

You know noting of my faith neighbor. So you go on to attack it We are talking SCIENCE here. Not faith.

Prove me wrong however, talk about what Senistrognata beleives

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: cooperton

You are confusing, the solving of mathematics, with the properties. DNA will self assemble, whether we understand it or not.

The assembly of DNA not only requires the persistence of elcetromagnetic forces to form the hydrogen bonds between the two strands, but it also requires the action of polymerase, mRNA, tRNA, etc to coherently parse DNA into intelligible protein sequences that have pre-ordained functions that perpetuate the biochemistry of all organisms. I still don't understand how you, as a self-proclaimed master of chemistry, cannot ascertain the immense complexity of interdependence that is required for a homeostatic persistence of an organism and how particularly impossible it would have been for this system to have developed by randomness.

You know noting of my faith neighbor. So you go on to attack it

We are talking SCIENCE here. Not faith.

No you are talking about your faith that the random interactions of matter could have created humanity. This idea is totally unfounded by scientific findings. The universe from the molecular to the cosmic scale acts according to predictable mathematical laws that intelligently keeps planets in their orbits and your body intact. To ignore these invisible electromagnetic forces would be to ignore the very foundation of chemistry.

a reply to: cooperton

Neighbour a number of molecules are able to self assemble, into complex structures. This includes DNA. You re confusing with what we are seeing in biological systems, with the basic chemical property of a nucleic acid. You make claims that this can only happen "with God (tm)" yet you have not proven it.

Again, my faith is Senistrognata and Págántacht, my job is science. I get paid a sallary to commit science for a living.

I can only thus assume your "god" is an invisible electromagnetic force. Because you keep talking about it. Except we can detect electromagnetic forces, we can manipulate them. If you ever went near an NMR, you would know this Or turned on a radio, or a light switch.

You talk about laws that "intellegently keep planets in orbit", except, orbits decay. The universe is NOT perfect. DNA is not perfect. Thus randomness is an option.

Again you know nothing of my faith. Prove me wrong Or drop that line of argument. It bears no importance here.