Is It Now Considered “Sexual Misconduct” to Ask For Sex?

So, I have been reading about some of these creeps like Weinstein and Spacey who are soliciting sex from minors and even forcing themselves on to their victims in some cases. I think we can all agree this is wrong and these people deserve the fallout they receive from their actions.

Here is where it gets confusing for me...Louis C K as far as I can tell asked women of legal age for sex. He didn’t t force himself on anyone. How is this now an offense where you should lose your job and source of income?

Now if he simply whipped it out and started going to town without consent that is certainly not okay, but have we gotten to the point where we are now going to villify people for simply asking for sex?

It isn’t my style to do something like that, but it concerns me that we seem to be moving in the direction. Is it to the point where someone can simply say that so and so asked me for sex and I was uncomfortable so it was abuse?

Some of these stories I am kind of searching for the details about what exactly is considered abuse. Also, if you aren’t going to take someone to court is it really cool to come out 30 years later and accuse them of something? At that point the individual accused no longer has any recourse to defend them self. The stigma is going to stay with them for life and they can’t do a damn thing about it.

So what say you ATS...is simply asking for sex enough to be considered an abuser now? At what point does something become inappropriate? How do we avoid unsubstantiated accusations for behavior from 40 years ago from derailing careers?

I am frustrated and confused.

Let’s sort this out.

a reply to: Metallicus

If it's a beautiful woman asking me, then certainly not

In fact, I'd say it applies to any consenting adults, and surely that should be a private thing anyway

Sometimes, instead of speaking you may want to listen.

If the women involved are telling you that they found it abusive, inappropriate, invasive and extremely creepy. (or whatever the specific suggestions are).. you may want to wonder why they see it that way, rather than try to suggest there really was no problem.

However, perhaps you can mansplain why being perceived as a sexual creep is not being a sexual creep. I'm sure women everywhere will be hanging on your insight (:

If you have to ask for sex you don't deserve to get it.

a reply to: Metallicus

Louis CK was on tour with some lesser known female comics. Professionally speaking he had the upper hand in a weird way, so him asking them can be seen as a sort of workplace harassment cause there was the possibility if they said no or raised a stink they could have been dropped from the tour.

As I thought about it, there's a pretty big ICK factor to the guy just asking for sex versus the typical dinner and a movie social convention. In reality if all he needs a chick there for is to watch, all here's a snap-on poster from 1970 an have at it! Defying social mores and treating someone as an object that blatantly, rightly or wrongly is going to garner some backlash.

Plus there was the whole Louis CK was married with a expectant wife an a little kid at home.
Not cool.

The pendulum swings both ways an for many decades it's been OK for guys to wield power in the workplace by being grabby, inappropriate and demeaning. Now it's swinging the other way and typically there's a LOT of pent up frustration behind it. It'll level out, but right now it's time for some venting.

He was a comic icon. Women have said he leveraged his connections, clout, and reputation in their meetings with him. When you have power over a person and abuse it like Louis C.K did, it's wrong. Bill Cosby also used his celebrity status to put pressure on women, and it was wrong then, too. Why didn't Cosby's victims get up and leave before being slipped a drugged drink?

Sometimes it's not so black/white and cut and dry. When your boss asks you to do something, are they really "asking" or telling you in the form of a question? Can you just say, "No thanks boss, you should ask someone else to get you that report."?

I think it's analogous in these situations. There is an implied "you are going to do this, OK?" behind the question, and that implied compliance comes from the power and prestige someone like Louis C.K. held.

So no, asking for sex isn't "sexual misconduct" -- using your power and position over someone as leverage when asking for sex to manipulate them is sexual misconduct.

Can we please stop with the victim-shaming, misogynist threads? As a white male I can only shake my head. It's pretty eye opening to see the ignorance, righteous indignation and self victimization going on. Men on the defensive because women aren't putting up with their behavior like they used to.

The same type of "outrage" from white males can also be seen with BLM. Oh my god, black people standing up for themselves somehow is now a threat to you, pointing out ugly stuff you don't want to admit to or recognize. So suddenly they need to be demonized and there's a war on white males.

Give me a break and stop the appeals to extremes in an effort to deflect and victimize yourselves. You are men, right? Then step up an act like men instead of little boys.

I have to agree, it is becoming really confusing.

If wanting/asking for sex is now a potential crime, then the bar scene might as well be shut down for being a haven of abuse.

There is definitely a line, but where is it?

If you guys can’t read someone’s body language you have problems

originally posted by: Jefferton
I have to agree, it is becoming really confusing.

If wanting/asking for sex is now a potential crime, then the bar scene might as well be shut down for being a haven of abuse.

There is definitely a line, but where is it?

Usually "the line" is "would you want someone to say or do this to your sister, Mother, wife or daughter"? If not you may wanna rethink things. At least that was the standard of behavior given last I heard.

originally posted by: melatonin
However, perhaps you can mansplain why being perceived as a sexual creep is not being a sexual creep. I'm sure women everywhere will be hanging on your insight (:

Yeah...knock that off.
By you calling a sexual predator "a Creeper" you diminish the behavior. I've seen it rampant on the 'Net and while it's trendy or whatever it minimizes the offense. Please don't buy into it.

a reply to: Caver78

You said the pendulum swings both ways -
Does it have to ask?
If not it's probably a woman.

a reply to: Metallicus

Sexual assault is difficult to prove, especially years after it happened.

So are accusations enough?

Is it enough just to accuse now?

You have that judge in Alabama, Harvey Weinstein, George Takei, the comedian guy, Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey, Bill Clinton, Donald Trump, etc.

Is it enough just to accuse?

I will say that anyone who does sexually assault someone else needs to be punished. There is no excuse.

But what is sexual assault?

It’s actually harder to define than you’d think. According to the United States Department of Justice, sexual assault is “any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient.” Sexual assault is basically an umbrella term that includes sexual activities such as rape, fondling, and attempted rape.

However, the legal definition varies depending on which state you’re in, and can even be different depending on where you were when the assault happened, Emily Austin, director of advocacy services for California Coalition Against Sexual Assault, tells SELF. For example, she says, sexual assault on college campuses in California means a sex act that occurred without affirmative consent (which is described as active, voluntary participation), while California criminal law defines rape as nonconsensual sexual intercourse, and other laws govern different forms of sexual assault beyond intercourse. “It’s complex,” she admits.

www.self.com...


We are now punishing people based on accusations and not proof, but in situations where proof is impossible, what else can we do?

But I have to ask the question. . .

Are we "diluting" the severity of sexual assault by over-using the term/accusation?

If we over-use the term, like racism, we weaken it when it really does happen.

We lessen the impact.

a reply to: Metallicus
What they are doing (though they may not know it yet) is working towards restoring the old ethic of "no sex outside marriage".

originally posted by: Caver78

originally posted by: melatonin
However, perhaps you can mansplain why being perceived as a sexual creep is not being a sexual creep. I'm sure women everywhere will be hanging on your insight (:

Yeah...knock that off.
By you calling a sexual predator "a Creeper" you diminish the behavior. I've seen it rampant on the 'Net and while it's trendy or whatever it minimizes the offense. Please don't buy into it.

I agree.

But one step at a time, eh?

His behaviour was clearly predatory. His 'apology' little more than narcissistic self-masturbation. Whether we like it or not, people will see a qualitative difference between a Weinstein and a Louis CK. I'm sure we'd agree more a quantitative difference, though (:

a reply to: melatonin

You've just described what some powerful men have to put with every day. The clingers on, the women who'd happily destroy a marriage for that financial surety.

This goes both ways. Or doesn't it? Is this the old "men can't be raped" thing all over again.......

Women these days are far too emotional. Women back in the day had a spine and a voice, they were not afraid to joke with their men. Now we have these hyper vigilant, foaming at the mouth, feminist women who just want to see men hurt. I'd say pay it less attention. Men aren't as bad as we're made out to be. Most of the time something a man says in jest to his pals is heard by a woman and blown so far out of proportion you'd think the world was ending.... Case in point "Grab her by the p****". Whilst a vulgar thing to say, you KNOW it's said to be funny.....

Honestly some women suck the fun out of everything, so do the overly sensitive men who egg them on... Just my opinion.

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
If you guys can’t read someone’s body language you have problems

Right! Lol...is it just me or does “asking for sex” come off as pathetic and desperate? If you have any sense of how to read body language or even a moment then you should have no problem whatsoever. “Asking for sex” though in my opinion conjures an image of a socially awkward guy not unlike “Borat” walking up and saying “you are very pretty, would you like to make sex with me?” 😂😭😂

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The topic is in the news an I can't count the personal conversations I've been drawn into lately regarding it. Let me tell you! Women are just as confused as the men are.

My stance on it is more fluid than most. Being a "female of a certain age" and working thru the 70's, 80's 90's ect I was subject to lots of what's now considered "harassment, sexual misconduct, or whatever" I was also raped in the Military.
Lived thru some spousal abuse from an alcoholic first husband, so am no stranger to "bad behavior".

That said I am still more fluid than most in my response to societal and workplace behaviors.
Mostly I see guys who just don't think things thru, or it sounded better in their heads. Or they forget they aren't at the bar and are indeed at work when that flew out of their mouths. Generally speaking I also see other women overreacting to very harmless, tactless stuff.

Say for instance the President Bush bum-patting.
Old dude in Walmart pats my bum an winks? My response is gonna be "Thank You!!!!" Now let me dust off the other cheek for ya!!!

Old Dude at work pats my bum? He's gonna be laying on the floor for awhile recovering from that head wound while I march over to human resources.

Different setting, different circumstances, different response.
Believe me, us Women are having to think all this "new standard: stuff out too!! Apparently I'm not allowed to assault a co-worker no matter what "they did" so even I have to do that "reset". Grumbles.....back in the day we just quietly settled this crap out in the company parking lot, but that makes me a dinosaur I guess?

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: melatonin
Women these days are far too emotional. Women back in the day had a spine and a voice, they were not afraid to joke with their men. Now we have these hyper vigilant, foaming at the mouth, feminist women who just want to see men hurt. I'd say pay it less attention. Men aren't as bad as we're made out to be. Most of the time something a man says in jest to his pals is heard by a woman and blown so far out of proportion you'd think the world was ending.... Case in point "Grab her by the p****". Whilst a vulgar thing to say, you KNOW it's said to be funny.....

Yeah, in the past they would have said that women are just hysterical.

Some men aren't. And, yes, these sort of comments are just funny...

I'm automatically attracted to beautiful [women]—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything ... Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.

Hmm. Haha.

The fact you think they are little more than jest is part of the problem.

Honestly some women suck the fun out of everything, so do the overly sensitive men who egg them on... Just my opinion.

Victim Blaming 101.

As a simple rule of thumb.


Never say something to a woman that you wouldn't feel comfortable hearing from an inmate in a prison shower block.


Follow this simple rule, and you will be fine.

a reply to: melatonin

We do indeed agree!
LCK has "personal issues" and rightfully was called out on his crap. He had every opportunity to actually address it himself prior to this but didn't. So now he's going to join the big role-call of celebrities in court or at least rehab.

We don't know what conversations went on behind the scenes with his employer, but it's pretty common that personal behavior NOT representative, or illegal, or damaging will result in an employee's dismissal. He did this on tour so it qualifies. His employer probably had way more information than we know about so it only looks to us on the outside that they fired him on a rumor. Most companies protect themselves legally in the case of a dismissal like this dotting their i's an crossing their t's, I'm willing to bet there's way more we don't know about.