Is It Now Considered “Sexual Misconduct” to Ask For Sex?

It is generally good practice to not ask someone for sex if you hold a position of authority over them.

The issue is that what someone thinks is minor flirting someone else will see as full on sexual assault.

To further muddy the water a lawyer or police officer will ask the "victim" how the situation made them feel, you could be having a innocent but flirty conversation at a office party for you to take the conversation one step further and boom you have crossed the line with that person and you now can be accused of sexual harassment and loose everything.

Personally I would never be a sports coach or mentor, I will not be alone with any female colleagues at work, I do not socialise with any female colleagues from work, I do not use any social media.

Call me paranoid but I just see it as keeping one's self safe, even a hint of such accusations being link to yourself will be curtains to any career you may have and will have far reaching consequences.



RA

Conflating minor flirtatious behaviour and sexual predation will not help unravel the underlying problem.

If you flirt with a colleague and get no positive feedback, then time to rethink lol. This would be a minefield and one that should be tread carefully.

Repeatedly violating a woman's boundaries by coercively whipping your wang out is not really in the same league, never mind playing field (:

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: melatonin

You've just described what some powerful men have to put with every day. The clingers on, the women who'd happily destroy a marriage for that financial surety.

This goes both ways. Or doesn't it? Is this the old "men can't be raped" thing all over again.......

Women these days are far too emotional. Women back in the day had a spine and a voice, they were not afraid to joke with their men. Now we have these hyper vigilant, foaming at the mouth, feminist women who just want to see men hurt. I'd say pay it less attention. Men aren't as bad as we're made out to be. Most of the time something a man says in jest to his pals is heard by a woman and blown so far out of proportion you'd think the world was ending.... Case in point "Grab her by the p****". Whilst a vulgar thing to say, you KNOW it's said to be funny.....

Honestly some women suck the fun out of everything, so do the overly sensitive men who egg them on... Just my opinion.

See you make a good point!
However it's all about "personal boundaries". Right in this thread you're getting two completely different responses. I respect melatonin's point of view, and in Trump's case it was wrong. It would still be wrong if I heard a local businessman puke that up at the bar. Cause it objectifies a subset of other humans who work for him.

But I agree with you that it's OK to joke around and yes in some cases things DO get blown way out of proportion.
Women as well need to "check their behavior" we don't get a free ride for having a "innie" or being female. This really comes down to just acting like decent human beings and treating others with respect.

Asking for sex could be considered abusive ! Whatever happened to asking someone out on a date if you are sexually attracted to them ? Asking someone to have sex with you without ever getting to the dating stage is repugnant , and could be viewed as harassment. Not a chance it would have so easily happened in my parents day. You needed to ask someone on a date and get their parents permission. I miss the old days 😕

its about abusing power, insinuations and presumptions

a lot of people can't wrap their heads around it

a reply to: Metallicus

Is it now considered "sexual misconduct" to ask for sex?

I don't think there's any simple answer to that question. The specific situation and circumstances will play a part. As will personal opinions. If any man walked up and asked me -- a very married woman -- for sex, yes, it would be "misconduct." There is absolutely nothing appropriate about that. However, it certainly doesn't rise to a criminal level, so I would neither want nor expect any criminal charges. Rather, I would say as loudly and with as much disgust as possible so that anyone and everyone could hear, "Hell no I won't have sex with you! What the hell kind of a creepy perverted bastard are you???" Or something to that effect.

So maybe a more pertinent question would be what should constitute a criminal sexual misconduct charge, and that would be anything that violates a woman's person or privacy. Should a peeping Tom be criminally charged? Yes. Should the perverts taking photos up women's skirts be charged? Yes. Should a pervert grabbing a woman's ass be charged? Yes. Should a pervert who whips out his thang and starts masturbating in front of you in a public enclosed place (like an elevator) be charged? Yes.

And we must consider civil actions as well. Is it appropriate for a boss to subject employees to sexual harassment? No. Is it appropriate for a boss to condition employment and employment opportunities on sexual favors? No. Is it appropriate for a boss to demand he be present while women are using the ladies' room? No. While none of these should land someone in jail, neither should it be acceptable to exploit, threaten, bully or intimidate anyone in any way -- including sexually.

We also have to understand that sexual assault is a crime of power -- not passion. So it's not surprising -- and should be expected -- that those in positions of power are the ones being accused of these crimes. But we're taught that men can't help themselves... those po widdle men just can't control their animal instincts when a beautiful women is around... and it's her fault for being so gosh darn attractive... and heaven forbid she wears anything that shows any skin or flatters her figure... now she deserves it!!! That attitude has to stop before sexual misconduct stops.

And let's make it clear, this is a male problem. As the posters here have made very clear, women -- ALL women -- have experienced sexual misconduct (if not outright sexual violent assault) at the hands of a man. By the time girls get their first training bra, they've experienced male sexual misconduct. I couldn't even count the many many times a man has acted inappropriately with me... but I have never ever been treated sexually inappropriately by a lesbian -- despite knowing many lesbians throughout my life. This isn't to say there are no female predators. But they are the exception, not the rule. And it seems that many boys have experienced the same kind of abuse by men -- not women -- though they are probably even less likely to speak of it than girls.

This is a male problem. And it will not change unless and until good men stop making piss poor excuses for the predators and stand up loud and proud and say, "This is unacceptable and will not be tolerated."

originally posted by: Jefferton
I have to agree, it is becoming really confusing.

If wanting/asking for sex is now a potential crime, then the bar scene might as well be shut down for being a haven of abuse.

There is definitely a line, but where is it?

Context is everything. If one is looking for strictly for sex, then a sex worker is a sure bet. If you don't know where the line is, then find out by feeling the person out first.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Metallicus

Is it now considered "sexual misconduct" to ask for sex?

I don't think there's any simple answer to that question. The specific situation and circumstances will play a part. As will personal opinions. If any man walked up and asked me -- a very married woman -- for sex, yes, it would be "misconduct." There is absolutely nothing appropriate about that. However, it certainly doesn't rise to a criminal level, so I would neither want nor expect any criminal charges. Rather, I would say as loudly and with as much disgust as possible so that anyone and everyone could hear, "Hell no I won't have sex with you! What the hell kind of a creepy perverted bastard are you???" Or something to that effect.

So maybe a more pertinent question would be what should constitute a criminal sexual misconduct charge, and that would be anything that violates a woman's person or privacy. Should a peeping Tom be criminally charged? Yes. Should the perverts taking photos up women's skirts be charged? Yes. Should a pervert grabbing a woman's ass be charged? Yes. Should a pervert who whips out his thang and starts masturbating in front of you in a public enclosed place (like an elevator) be charged? Yes.

And we must consider civil actions as well. Is it appropriate for a boss to subject employees to sexual harassment? No. Is it appropriate for a boss to condition employment and employment opportunities on sexual favors? No. Is it appropriate for a boss to demand he be present while women are using the ladies' room? No. While none of these should land someone in jail, neither should it be acceptable to exploit, threaten, bully or intimidate anyone in any way -- including sexually.

We also have to understand that sexual assault is a crime of power -- not passion. So it's not surprising -- and should be expected -- that those in positions of power are the ones being accused of these crimes. But we're taught that men can't help themselves... those po widdle men just can't control their animal instincts when a beautiful women is around... and it's her fault for being so gosh darn attractive... and heaven forbid she wears anything that shows any skin or flatters her figure... now she deserves it!!! That attitude has to stop before sexual misconduct stops.

And let's make it clear, this is a male problem. As the posters here have made very clear, women -- ALL women -- have experienced sexual misconduct (if not outright sexual violent assault) at the hands of a man. By the time girls get their first training bra, they've experienced male sexual misconduct. I couldn't even count the many many times a man has acted inappropriately with me... but I have never ever been treated sexually inappropriately by a lesbian -- despite knowing many lesbians throughout my life. This isn't to say there are no female predators. But they are the exception, not the rule. And it seems that many boys have experienced the same kind of abuse by men -- not women -- though they are probably even less likely to speak of it than girls.

This is a male problem. And it will not change unless and until good men stop making piss poor excuses for the predators and stand up loud and proud and say, "This is unacceptable and will not be tolerated."

If I could star you ten times for this post... I would ! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

a reply to: Metallicus

It depends.

In certain circumstances it’s definitely predatory behavior. Especially when the one asking for sex does so from a position of superiority or fame and admiration, knowing that their position of authority makes it difficult for the other person to offer a negative response.

But just the same, when Louis C.K. ask those women if it was alright for him to pull out his dick and begin masturbating in front of them, how many of them gave their consent?

Not a damn one of them, you say. Yeah, that’s what I thought.

And just for the record, it’s not OK to ask for sex from 14yr old kids either.

A better question might be; Is it moral and/or ethical misconduct to defend and support sexual predators?

originally posted by: Boadicea
This is a male problem. And it will not change unless and until good men stop making piss poor excuses for the predators and stand up loud and proud and say, "This is unacceptable and will not be tolerated."

Yup. But don't hold your breath. You can easily note the guys who get it and those who don't.

The attempts to minimise what is clearly predatory behaviour are pretty obvious. It tends to be those who see no problem with a bit of slap and tickle.

An issue of entitlement?

Must be ever so hard on those poor men who view women as little more than sexual objects...

(For those who miss it, that last statement contained a large serving of irony)

If you aren't already in a relationship with the person, just asking for sex is a bit creepy and weird.
Join a swinger group or something if that's your bag..

Asking someone for a date should be OK though. Long as you aren't a douche about it and make them feel like they have to agree.

a reply to: Sheye

Thank you

Now, if only we could get those who most need to understand this to get it, eh?

So are we asking if its ok to just start wanking infront of folk when the mood takes us, cos that is what he did.

Are we asking that?

If it's appropriate, or maybe crosses a line?

Well it sure us a tricky dilemma, that.

originally posted by: Sheye
Asking for sex could be considered abusive ! Whatever happened to asking someone out on a date if you are sexually attracted to them ? Asking someone to have sex with you without ever getting to the dating stage is repugnant , and could be viewed as harassment. Not a chance it would have so easily happened in my parents day. You needed to ask someone on a date and get their parents permission. I miss the old days 😕

I'm glad I'm married, happily I might add. And if one find themselves in an uncomfortable situation..........GET OUT!!

a reply to: melatonin

The attempts to minimise what is clearly predatory behaviour are pretty obvious. It tends to be those who see no problem with a bit of slap and tickle.

An issue of entitlement?

There does seem to be much of an entitlement attitude with too many men, I agree. And I find that mind boggling. Especially because the same men who think it's okay to treat women in such a way would scream bloody murder if a gay man treated them exactly the same way. I'm pretty sure that's why so many men are so homophobic... and in the end it says more about them than it does about gay men.

However, I do want to point out that it's not ALL men. Definitely too many men, but not all.

a reply to: Metallicus

Bringing women into your hotel room, under the guise to hang out, and then taking your pants off and masturbate is OK to you?

Interesting.

I would have left the room, not sure what the women did.

He's also talked about having sex with underage and with dead underage girls. Granted just talk, but I don't see that as funny. Especially since something like this did happen in Wisconsin several years ago. Three 18-19 year olds dug up a young woman who was killed in a motorcycle accident, they thought she was hot. They were caught.

a reply to: Joneselius

Case in point "Grab her by the p****". Whilst a vulgar thing to say, you KNOW it's said to be funny..

that's the thing though, we don't know!!!
here's a sugestion guys.... get to really know the women and nuture the relationship before you start thinking about sex...
if you do that, you should know weather the lady will think it's creepy for you to ask.

Women these days are far too emotional. Women back in the day had a spine and a voice, they were not afraid to joke with their men.

when was "back in the day" and just how old are you? My mom was a bartender "Back in the day" when it wasn't illegal for minors to be in bars as long as they weren't served alcoholic drinks... there were many times that I ended up going to the bar and watching her work because there was no one else to watch over me. I remember the fights. There were many bad words said. but I don't remember any of these overly drunk people ever joking about how women just let them grab them by their privates or really disrespecting the women in the bar much at all...
if you go back any further than this, you get to the place where sex wasn't really talked about much when there was women present. oh ya, the rape and sexual harassment was happening, but it was always kept in the background I think.

so just when was this back in the day you are talking about?? my guess is that it wasn't any further back than the late 60's early 70's.. when our whole perception and attitude surrounding sex changed.

people keep pointing to those perfect times, back in the day, before feminism....
such a perfect time, when women stayed home (at least those women who's husbands earned enough for them to be able to) and men worked.... and had the power to control every cent of their hard earned money was spent and what it was spent for... when it was legal to rape their wives and physically discipline them.... and when rape and divorce was always the fault of the women..

oh ya, they were such perfect times.... for men!!!
I am really quite tired of this idea that everything was so much better back then. women WERE WORKING, had been working since industrialization took away their cottage industry. the only difference between then and now is that they now have more fields open for them and are getting a more equitable wage for their labor! there was just as much sexual abuse and domestic violence then, only it didn't come out into the light because nothing would be done about it, except of course the victim would be shamed. and there wasn't less divorce because there were happier marriages, but rather because women were willing to endure more to avoid such poverty and shame harming to their children!!

but continue working to go backwards to that time you see as so perfect... attack everything you see as being in your way... it seems that you will not learn the truth till you manage to succeed!

a reply to: Metallicus

You people just make me sick. Just go down to the municipal building and apply for a sex permit. File the forms and make a request like the rest of us!

There is a simple fix for this. Don't ask anyone at work out while at work. Simple as that. To me, anyone that has to use the workplace for dates needs to understand that the world is much larger than the work site.