It's Starting, We were told it Would

This week the church announced it was pulling down a memorial to its one-time vestryman and the country’s first president, saying he and another famous parishioner, Robert E. Lee, have become too controversial and are chasing away would-be parishioners.

What the church does is the church's own business, as long as it's lawful. They have every right to take down what they choose within their own walls or property.

And if they're losing business (aka would-be parishioners), the wise business decision is...

Bottom line: churches need members to function. To retain or attract members (and by extension money), the church has to change its business model. And that's what they're doing, it seems.

“The plaques in our sanctuary make some in our presence feel unsafe or unwelcome. Some visitors and guests who worship with us choose not to return because they receive an unintended message from the prominent presence of the plaques,” the church leaders said.

So be it.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

The debate predates the Constitution. Would you rather have a plaque that said: "He fought to defend the institution of slavery?"

As long as we put plaques over Lincoln statues that say "He would only allow states that stayed with the union the right to practice slavery."

a reply to: Gryphon66

It’s the church’s business; no one else’s.

no it's a National Historic Landmark, declared so in 1970. as it is/was. it is the whole country's business. and if they receive any federal monies, for maintaining the church and or any other part of the campus then it is especially all U.S. citizens business.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
when all the protests over memorials started and people wanted this one removed, or that one removed, or this persons day celebration stopped.
many people said that it wouldn't be long before they started in on the founders of the U.S. well the first one has been picked and it's our first president.

George Washington was one of the founding members of Christ Church in Alexandria, buying pew No. 5 when the church first opened in 1773, and attending for more than two decades.

This week the church announced it was pulling down a memorial to its one-time vestryman and the country’s first president, saying he and another famous parishioner, Robert E. Lee, have become too controversial and are chasing away would-be parishioners.
George Washington’s church to tear down memorial honoring first president

i wonder how many more?

Why stop there! Why not rename the church to something more PC and "diverse". Let me suggest "Quaalude Latifah's Church of Rightous Snowflakes". Can't have anything named after white... MEN - because that is both non-diverse and raciss.

a reply to: Uberdoubter

Why stop there! Why not rename the church to something more PC and "diverse".

You mean like " kiddie fondlers anonymous"

Judging the past with the eyes of the present will almost always lead us to this kind of situations.

We better start from a clean sheet once again.

But... wait! What will our successors do about it? Will they slash our ideas and start again? Or will they recover the ideas we´re purging now?

The ridiculous america never ceases to amaze me.

anunnaki statues down

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

So now you want to curtail freedom of speech? I thought words couldn't hurt unless you let them.

You clearly have it backwards. Those shutting down history ARE shutting down freedom of speech. Man who doesn't understand history is destined to repeat it is a scientific observation of the past. Antifa and Soros wish to rewrite history to a skewed view of or founding because Americans have way too many freedoms. We allow too many rich people apparently for their taste too. Since I am only rich in friends and not in $ they will have a hard time getting me down and grabbing much. Can't get much water from a rock.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie


This is a very old tactic that has been used over and over the past hundred years. Bring down the economy so people can barely make it, then blame the institutions of the country so you can take over. The Bolsheviks did it in Russia, and Poland, and now they are trying it here. The purpose is to supplant the country with their own power. First they erase our history, then they erase US.

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: ADSE255
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Good thread

Seems to be more questions now than actual solutions. The Country is highly divided which doesn't help. A Revolution may be just what it needs.

Start by removing all those "controversial" statues, then burning those books with "controversial" chapters, then round up all those people that express "controversial" opinions for reeducation, and kill those that don't reform. Then start a new calendar system. Call the start of the revolution "Year Zero".

Sounds more like a dead wall going no place than a solution.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

The issue is not the statues, the issue is why "controversial" is considered a "bad thing." Controversy is good, avoiding controversy is cowardice. Neither Washington nor Lee would have feared controversy.

As long as we're considering Lee's wishes, he was very much against memorials.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: AMPTAH

You don't know anything about the Great Library at Alexandria, do you?

It was not just a repository of information of many sorts, but there was research done there by some of the greatest minds humanity has ever, and unfortunately, probably will ever, see. Research was done on the secrets of the Universe, some of it has only been replicated within the past couple of generations.

The thing is, we don't learn by reading books.

This might be a very hard concept to grasp.

But, when we read a book, we "recall" to mind things "using analogy", because of the many life experiences we have stored up in our soul, from many re-incarnations.

So, one person reads a book and he understands everything. Another person reads the same book and finds it confusing, ambiguous, unclear, uninteresting, etc..

What's the difference between these two people?

For example, some people think the bible is fiction, others think it represents truth. Who is right?

It's the same book, has the same content, but different people disagree on that content.

When all the souls that understand the bible have moved on, and no longer reincarnate here, the other people remaining will burn the book.

Books are for recalling to mind things we already know.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: AMPTAH

You don't know anything about the Great Library at Alexandria, do you?

It was not just a repository of information of many sorts, but there was research done there by some of the greatest minds humanity has ever, and unfortunately, probably will ever, see. Research was done on the secrets of the Universe, some of it has only been replicated within the past couple of generations.

The thing is, we don't learn by reading books.

This might be a very hard concept to grasp.

But, when we read a book, we "recall" to mind things "using analogy", because of the many life experiences we have stored up in our soul, from many re-incarnations.

So, one person reads a book and he understands everything. Another person reads the same book and finds it confusing, ambiguous, unclear, uninteresting, etc..

What's the difference between these two people?

For example, some people think the bible is fiction, others think it represents truth. Who is right?

It's the same book, has the same content, but different people disagree on that content.

When all the souls that understand the bible have moved on, and no longer reincarnate here, the other people remaining will burn the book.

Books are for recalling to mind things we already know.

The majority of your post describes why literature is so important. Kinda like "you say Po-TA-toe, I say Pah-tah-toe". To each a book WILL or could have different meanings.

I see this as dangerous history is important to a nation. Destroying a nations history will destroy that nation.History is something you learn from. You cant know where your going if you dont know where you started! 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
when all the protests over memorials started and people wanted this one removed, or that one removed, or this persons day celebration stopped.
many people said that it wouldn't be long before they started in on the founders of the U.S. well the first one has been picked and it's our first president.

George Washington was one of the founding members of Christ Church in Alexandria, buying pew No. 5 when the church first opened in 1773, and attending for more than two decades.

This week the church announced it was pulling down a memorial to its one-time vestryman and the country’s first president, saying he and another famous parishioner, Robert E. Lee, have become too controversial and are chasing away would-be parishioners.
George Washington’s church to tear down memorial honoring first president

i wonder how many more?

Did you see that the memorial plaques were both (Lee and Washington) put up in 1870, just after Lee died?

a reply to: Greven

yes i did, and to pretend that removing one without removing the other would make the symmetry of sanctuary look out of whack is a load of bs, that could have easily been fixed when the removal takes place.

another thing both men are spoken of in their website, are they gonna scrub both of them or just the one. then there's the fact that they took 10,000 dollar inheritance from Lee's daughter, are they gonna give that back to the Lee family?

my bet is no.

ETA: on there website you can see that they can and do remolding and repair of the church, so it seems likely they have the craftsmen and designers/ architects skilled enough to handle the transformation of the plaque removal of just one and keep a aesthetic appeal of the sanctuary.

We’re living in two worlds
There’s the world we see (or are made to see) and then there’s the one we sense,which is a far cry from the propaganda-driven reality manufactured by the government.
Lets take away the one dollar bill we don't need it anymore.....

a reply to: madenusa

Lets take away the one dollar bill we don't need it anymore.....

then you would have to get rid of lot of the U.S. currency, there are only a few that didn't own slaves.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie currency that will give in to a cashless computer financial system.
was just day dreaming old George is on the dollars what's next....
Old marine used to say lets see what happens next.