Harvey Weinstein Has Me Thinking

I don't mean this post as a big "tell all."

It's been a long time since these things happened and I'm not looking for sympathy and I don't need to download anything in order to heal.

But I basically lived a good part of my life dealing with unwanted attention or bad behavior from men. It's something I just accepted and dealt with and it didn't occur to me to start a revolution over it or call Gloria Steinman.

But this Harvey guy has me thinking. He has me thinking that those experiences weren't right and that perhaps in some way they've damaged some part of me that I haven't really ever come to terms with.

It almost all happened in the 80's when we were just starting to talk about these kinds of things.

I'm in middle age now, but when I was younger I was very pretty---something I didn't really get or understand except by the reactions Or attention I received from others. I was a petite, blonde hair, blue-eyed -kind of pretty, but I was also smart and independent which probably kept me out of trouble for the most part.

But I was sexually harassed by all kinds of people in society---policemen, bosses, parent's friends.

I was pulled over two different times for things---speeding or failure to use a blinker---and propositioned by two different policemen. I was sexually harassed by three or four different bosses in various jobs, and often asked out by male fellow employees in the workplace who would treat me poorly thereafter when I turned them down.

One particular instance was this: I accepted a babysitting job from a boss who lived nearby to watch his kids. He was a very visible figure in our community. He lived down the street from my best friend and their families were friendly.

When he brought me home that night, he locked the doors to the car in front of my house and tried to make the moves. This is someone that I should have trusted and looked up to at work. To this day, whenever he sees me---rare as it is---he still moves right in, although he's old at this point! It never occurred to me to tell on him. In my world back then, people like me just accepted that "this is the way things are."

Once I covered a Bill Cosby comedy show for a journalism outfit I was working for and I brought a friend along. You should have seen Bill Cosby trying to get my friend and I to go out to dinner with him when I went backstage after the concert to interview him.

He followed us around like a puppy dogs for an hour. It was 1983 or 1984 then---and though he was a big star we thought he was gross.

Thank god we didn't go with him. He gave us the creeps.

This week, when I look back on all of this, it has sort of caused me to check in with myself about it. And honestly, a lot of it still makes me uncomfortable and I realize it has probably influenced my life in ways I'm not even aware of.

Like, how about the 5th grade teacher who always wanted me to sit on his lap? Or the man who lured my friend and I down under a bridge in grade school and took off his pants?

Fortunately, I managed to toe the line enough to not put myself in any tragic situations, but I think there were a lot of times in my life where I had to be extremely aware and cautious, had to often question people's intentions and motives or get myself out of dicey situations.

I'm aware that good looking people are often treated differently but I think I shunned that truth for the most part and got by by developing my intelligence and wits. I hated being treated like a "blonde."

I was a thinker, not just an empty shell, and I think I was always looking for respect---respect that I often had to work really hard for.

I know pretty women often use their looks for advantage---always have. But just as often, they've spent a lifetime asking to be taken seriously in a culture that preys upon them.

I think it's time for some honest discussion about this and for some serious change to take place in our society.

As a conservative woman, I'm not all that comfortable discussing feminism or even topics like this. This is the first time I've ever really even talked about it to be honest.

It was just part of life.

But in my time, I've known a lot of Harvey's.

A lot of Harvey's, indeed.

This is NO LONGER inthe Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite debate will be enforced.

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.

thank you for sharing your stories. the more women come forward and say 'yes, this also happened to me', the less anyone can pretend it's not a problem.

originally posted by: fiverx313
thank you for sharing your stories. the more women come forward and say 'yes, this also happened to me', the less anyone can pretend it's not a problem.

Well it WAS a problem.

I am not sure it is one now. The '80s were a very different time.

OP, thanks for sharing your story.

a reply to: MRuss

I'm sorry, MRuss. I've had a good bit thrown my way too. It changes you after a while.

a reply to: MRuss

God gave men testicles for when they became absolute assholes.

So you could kick them there.

a reply to: Metallicus

I think it still is a problem.

Harvey Weinstein would be in his hotel room in a white robe TODAY preying on some young girl... if he hadn't been blown in by the New York Times.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Well, you're probably right about that. I could have used my foot.

It's humorous to think of all the men I could have disfigured ---or at least had rolling on the ground---in my day.

On one hand, we are angels in the flesh and hope to treat people and be treated by others in ways that acknowledge our inherent good qualities and boost our self-esteem with praise and goodwill. We aspire to rise to the level of our purest virtues.

On the other hand, we're filthy, rutting animals -- two of a kind and very different -- who don't want much more than to live long enough to peacefully procreate (or go through the motions). We're clever but insane apes that like to fill our own heads with ideals that are impossible to adhere to. There's a reason why men are about 30 percent bigger and stronger on average than women. It's so -- back when mating was more of a chance occurrence -- we could "mate" successfully without the female having anything to say about it. We have since created laws to refine that, but we're still built that way.

As I've said before, the human mating ritual, which is vast and incorporated into every activity we do (even though it might not seem so on the surface) is horribly messy, with both men and women jockeying and bartering for their best deal. Radio guy Tom Leykis, a liberal from way back, has essentially said that "Men try to get the most attractive woman they can afford, and women try to get the richest guy their looks can attract." It's cold and basic, and sure there are variations on it, but that's what it boils down to.

You have to admit you play the game, too. But I think you're feeling uneasy because now we might be moving into unknown territory. You think that somehow those past behaviors are now "bad." Fine. I think that men and women are working to become more "equal," but along with that, a lot of the rules we used to follow are getting thrown out and not replaced by anything very functional. So we don't know what to do. We don't know how we'll be judged to be a good person. And there are old habits that need to be broken. Do you (or have you) approached men you're attracted to at the same rate they approach you? Probably not. You're not a slut, right?

Well, it just shows all the stuff that is still in your mind, and unless it gets cleared up on both sides, we're just going to feel bad about every time we are attracted to somebody. So we'll stop. Where's the progress then?

a reply to: MRuss
Who was your Harvey?

Thank you for starting this topic. A very interesting conversation and one that has taken way too long to take place.

I am also a blonde haired blue eyed conservative woman and I can completely understand exactly where you are coming from. A group of us had this discussion at lunch today. Are we going to be the ones to witness the change?

I work in IT ( a field dominated by men). I have fought my whole career to prove that it is my mind and the work abilities that make me stand above the rest. Luckily I have a name that can be used to my advantage so they usually don't know I am a woman now but it wasn't the same in the beginning.

I think as people start to speak many will be surprised just how common this kind of thing still is

Some of putting up with it has to do with our "being polite". Even as one of the victims of Weinstein said while he was copping a feel, she was wondering "How can I get out of here without causing a scene, or making him hate me?"

Some of it is that. We need to get over trying to be polite to people who are being so horribly rude and offensive to us.

(I personally got over that, out of fear of actually being raped, I guess.) I can be very disarming with words that come out of my mouth. Scary even. Because I don't care. They are the ones in the wrong, they are the ones who could get into trouble. I can easily point that out to them, and I have. No games here when it comes to that.

I hope I've given some of them a reason to think twice before they pull that crap on somebody else.

a reply to: Metallicus

It is still a problem. Very much so.

a reply to: fiverx313
You would be shocked to find out how many people that have experienced some form of unwanted sexual advances, abuse, and rape.

A few years ago when I transferred into Forensic Nursing, I had no idea how important my services would be for both men and women. I primarily care for people from age 14 and up, but I am aware if the cases that involve infants, toddlers, and pre-teens.

The first time someone shared their story with me, outside of the job, I was a bit surprised. She knows what I do for a living, she was washing my hair when she just blurted out that she had been raped by her uncle's friend when he was 16 years old, and she had never told anyone about it.

That was the first of many individuals coming to me to free themselves of the events that happened years ago that they kept bottled up inside for years. You would be shocked to know how many men and women, old and young, that have been victims of sexual abuse, and have never uttered a word to anyone about it.

I am so blessed to have so many people that trust me to be their confidant. That trust me to listen to their story without judging or placing blame, and that they will allow me to comfort them and to provide the support they need.

The numbers are staggering, and like others that have posted before me, the shame belongs to those that knew and did nothing. We have known that power and money have made victims, particularly among children in Hollywood, for years. Victims have spoken up on numerous occasions, but nothing has changed and business will continue as usual, just like it did after Polanski and all the others. We feed the beast that feeds off our children. Disney, Nickelodeon, almost everything that Hollywood and the MSM produces is tainted and toxic. Yet we continue to worship them, we continue to bring them into our children's lives, and we bring them into our homes. It won't stop until we stop.

a reply to: MRuss

It's only harassment if the advances are unwelcome. It's the quandary of the single man. How do you know it will not be welcome until you try? This of course doesn't go for people in positions of power. For a boss to hit on an employee is harassment. I also think that it must work at least some times otherwise these clowns would develop a different strategy.

originally posted by: Martin75
Are we going to be the ones to witness the change?

What do you envision it changing to?

See, I'm a guy, and we like people to offer potential solutions when they point out problems. How do you see the whole meeting people and dating thing working out in the future?

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: MRuss

It's only harassment if the advances are unwelcome. It's the quandary of the single man. How do you know it will not be welcome until you try? This of course doesn't go for people in positions of power. For a boss to hit on an employee is harassment. I also think that it must work at least some times otherwise these clowns would develop a different strategy.

NO!
You need to do more research.

a reply to: MRuss

Thanks for sharing.
my mum told me some awful stories about working in the 60s and 70s.

Men like this just make my fists itch if I am being honest because they taint us all.

originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
It's only harassment if the advances are unwelcome. It's the quandary of the single man. How do you know it will not be welcome until you try?

Oh, I've given up on that. It was difficult to begin with, and these days the risk to benefit ratio has made it too problematic.

"Come on, dude. Be a man!" Yeah, right.

DP

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Martin75
Are we going to be the ones to witness the change?

What do you envision it changing to?

See, I'm a guy, and we like people to offer potential solutions when they point out problems. How do you see the whole meeting people and dating thing working out in the future?

Don't use your power to intimidate anyone. Male or female. I should be able to go to work just like my male co-worker and know that being damn good at my job is what it takes. Not if my top shows the right amount of cleavage.

If two co-workers are equal or are not in a power situation; it's different. Plus a power predator doesn't act like someone who is simply making an advance on a woman he would like to date. He is making a play for a piece of skin he wants and thinks he has a right to. There is a HUGE difference.

a reply to: Blue Shift

I enjoyed your reply----although it seems to me it leaned quite heavily on sociology and biology rather than just the truth of things---the truth of things being measured and verified by how they make one feel.

If a teacher asks a young and vulnerable student to sit on his lap during movie time, one can hardly accuse her of "playing a part."

Nor can the babysitter, who, being dropped off at home, is sexually harassed, be accused of being complicit in some way to that event.

That is a very old storyline you're dredging up there. And the reason this discussion is taking place.

Women are vulnerable. Period. But thankfully the good lord gave humans brains, that, when employed, can help us overcome our biological urges.

Pretending that isn't so is another way of saying, "oh well, deal with it. We're animals, after all."

I don't exist for the benefit of men, although that has taken me a long time to thoroughly believe.

I exist as an independent soul with goals and attributes and skills that have nothing to do with my gender.