A controversial topic - Margaret Thatcher and the hatred against her

DISCLAIMER/NOTE TO USERS - As people may have noticed, I post a lot of controversial threads to invoke decent (and civilised) debate, not because I enjoy pissing people of, but because I actually enjoy reading everybody’s points and arguement from both sides. I find that I come out of most of my threads either feeling very confident in my original opinion or educated otherwise... That is what I love about ATS. I am also very open with my opinions and pull no punches because quite frankly I have no room in my life for lies, crap or falseness. I am the most un-politically correct person ever but whatever words I choose or way in which I express an opinion doesn’t mean I am deliberately trying to offend people or be nasty, please keep that in mind. However you will notice that I am extremely open to criticism (as long as it’s polite) and unlike most I will always always listen to any opposing arguement and research the points they make. I am not a person to just wave away somebodies opinion because it doesn’t match with mine because there is every possibility that I am completely wrong or misinformed. I am aware I am not a genius and am only human like everybody else, we all make mistakes some times... So here it goes.

It really drives me nuts when I see people speak about Thatcher like she was some kind of mass murderer/tyrant/satanist.

Perhaps if the miners and all them folks up north spent less time going on strike and being lazy then she wouldn’t have had to be so hard.

You could buy coal cheaper then anywhere else in the world then you could in the UK. Why should we have subsidised every lazy b@!/&:rd

People speak about Thatcher like she was a tyrant, the only people who think that were the bone idle/lazy and the give me’s/labour supporters/unions. The woman just had balls and people didn’t like it.

Good examples are when she made the order to sink the Belgrano (Falklands) after repeated warnings to them. Ensuring that the EU gave us an annual rebate and much more.

It seems to me like people just dont like the fact that the woman had more balls in her underwear then any other man in government.

Am I alone in thinking this?

Just my opinion, feel free to attack me now

a reply to: fusiondoe

My understanding is that the dislike for her was purely policy related.

The people of Great Britain are used to having female leaders unlike the U.S.

a reply to: fusiondoe

Thatcher covered up a Pedophile ring

www.thedailybeast.com...

She was a #.

Check out Sir Peter Heyman & Cyril Smith MP.mannered



She is rotting in hell.

Striking for better conditions does not mean one is lazy.

When the resources sector goes bottom up, manufacturing does to, and then in turn economic turmoil, social issues etc etc

Poor foresight, not just by Thatcher but previous governments failed to address deindustrialization and plan for training and development in new areas for the unskilled and skilled labourers. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Side note: I have one thing to thank Thatcher for - My immediate family saw no future for the family, a threatened repeat of the poverty cycle and uprooted to the sunny climes of Australia. Me da said we were economic refugees.

originally posted by: Metallicus
The people of Great Britain are used to having female leaders unlike the U.S.

She was the first at the top of government, and I don't think people's reactions to Theresa May (Thatcher Mark2) are unaffected by the same feelings.
There is the Queen, of course, but the Queen is non-political.

It was the female rulers of the sixteenth century who inspired John Knox's book "First Blast of the Trumpet against the Monstrous Regiment of [= "unnatural system of government by"] Women". This was really directed against the Catholics like Mary Stuart, but Elizabeth ! was included by implication.

Don't hate her.

Just consider her one off the worst prime ministers we have ever had the misfortune to have.

a reply to: Metallicus

Your understanding of the situation, with regard to that specific point Metallicus, is bang on the money.

If she had not have destroyed the Unions, crippled the working people entirely, literally taken food out of the mouths of the nations children and elderly, by every other move she made, amongst a myriad of other terrible things she got up to at our expense as a country, then she would not have received the animosity she did.

As it is, she was precisely as bad for the country as she has been accused of, did every last thing that it has been suggested that she did to mess its economy up, and did it all callously and with full understanding of the ramifications of her actions, negative as they were bound to be. She did them anyway, and repeatedly suggested that she would do them again, when questioned on those matters.

Her policies did massive damage to the future (our present) of this country, damage which has not been undone by the years of neoliberal, centre right nonsense which has followed her era. It is unfortunate that Theresa May appears to have modeled her approach on that of Thatcher, because the approach that both women have taken to the role of Prime Minister, has caused significant pain to those over which, both individuals had power.

a reply to: fusiondoe

She stripped the council's of there housing stock directly leading to the housing crisis, removed the legal requirement for wages to stay in line with inflation while leaving benefit's untouched knowing full well that the long term result would be to capsize the welfare system - it may have taken longer than she anticipated but it happened.

She was implicit in cover up's, considered deploying the army to impose martial law on the miners and brought in many draconian rule's to limit public assembly right's so crippling the trades union movement in a direct attack upon the foundation of the opposition.

Poll Tax which targeted the poor unfairly.

Changed the rules on liquid food's such as Ice Cream so that they could be sold by Volume instead of weight allowing the public to be ripped off as food manufacturers were then freely allowed to whip air into there product's to increase there volume.

She actually hated the poor, her husband was a tax evader worth billion's but his money was concealed off shore mostly in Africa, after a coup led to a democratic government her son tried to overthrow the democratic government so that he could get his hand's back on his fathers then lost fortune which had been hidden in that country, officially Dennis thatcher was only a humble millionaire not the billionaire he really was members of her government including Leon Britain were involved in regular sexual and satanic abuse of care home children.

Not just her policy's but actual change under her government that caused so much long term and abiding harm.

Watching the prime minister's question time's today and the news yesterday, Tory's are always shown coming out of church's yet they are the least christian party in Britain and there traditional policy's have always been opposed to true christian teaching's.

Labour are seldom perfect but they have the ethos of cloth the poor, create job's that pay a fair rate that people can actually live on, create home's and build new community's around people.

British Tory's also known as the conservative party though they can actually be divided into two camp's with former conservative prime minister John Major falling more into the Conservative than the Tory camp (he was actually more Labour than Blair ever was which emphasizes just how right wing New Labour had become) believe in rewarding the rich, putting the tax burden onto the poor and complete eventual eradication of all publicly provided services.

The point is, do you care about your people, there future and there well being.
(Labour, the SNP, The Green's and the Liberal Democrat's)

Or

Do you care about profit, the well being of the elite and wealthy and cutting tax on the rich at the expense of the poor.
(the Tory Party - aka the Dominant camp in the conservative party)


One other thing, many of you outside of the UK assume the Tory's have the popular vote but that is not the way our convoluted electoral system work's, we have a non proportional representation system which if it had ever been overthrown would have seen the Tory's very seldom gain power.

She had xmass dinner ten years running with jimmy savile. Biggest child rapist in British history. The Police knew he was raping children. MI5 knew he was doing it and so did the politicians along with the royal family. Over 40 years bang right in our faces and maggy the milk snatcher had TEN christmass dinners with him at our expense. Dig the bitch up and flush whats left, down the toilet for that is all shes worth. A vile hag may she rot in hell.

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: fusiondoe

Thatcher covered up a Pedophile ring

www.thedailybeast.com...

Thats strictly not true, Thatcher was from my mothers era, a time when

women were sheltered and when sex just meant *women had to lie back

and think of England* before the time of Masters and Johnson research into sex.


When the Jimmy Saville stuff came out she actually believed, and said openly

" What terrible things those young women were saying" to try and destroy another

person."

Where did they learn such things?? .....Although married with children she never

had any sex education and some things were never talked about) She didnt believe

it could be true , till I told her that one of her esteemed friends had assualted me

when I was younger.

She wept when she heard that. ( I know she wasn't aware of it, but

unreasonably I always held it against her as I felt she was my mother and somehow

should have known) She was in her 40's before she knew about homosexuality!!


I firmly believe it was the same for Margaret Thatcher.


A different time in a different world .........

originally posted by: LABTECH767

Labour are seldom perfect but they have the ethos of cloth the poor, create job's that pay a fair rate that people can actually live on, create home's and build new community's around people.

Hmmn... as the saying goes....


*The problem with socialism is that eventually they run out of other people's money to spend*

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: starwarsisreal
a reply to: fusiondoe

Thatcher covered up a Pedophile ring

www.thedailybeast.com...

Thats strictly not true, Thatcher was from my mothers era, a time when

women were sheltered and when sex just meant *women had to lie back

and think of England* before the time of Masters and Johnson research into sex.


When the Jimmy Saville stuff came out she actually believed, and said openly

" What terrible things those young women were saying" to try and destroy another

person."

Where did they learn such things?? .....Although married with children she never

had any sex education and some things were never talked about) She didnt believe

it could be true , till I told her that one of her esteemed friends had assualted me

when I was younger.

She wept when she heard that. ( I know she wasn't aware of it, but

unreasonably I always held it against her as I felt she was my mother and somehow

should have known) She was in her 40's before she knew about homosexuality!!


I firmly believe it was the same for Margaret Thatcher.


A different time in a different world .........

Brilliant comment and I actually find this very easy to believe! My parents/grandparents were the same, not deliberate ignorance but just ignorant compared to modern day times

a reply to: eletheia

Here is where you are wrong, the Tory's want to strip mine the economy into there own bank account's, it is as simple as that, the Labour party is perhaps too far to the left but at least that is better than the fake labour New Labour party was, unfortunately Corbyn need's more brain's around him which is a problem that will bite at the next general election if he is not careful.

But party's aside, the economy make's money from everyone's work, that work which we do when we feel like we are flogging a dead horse and going no where in our job's because we get into a rut and can not get out of it so as far as I am concerned social mobility especially under the Tory party is actually a lie.

Let's have a look at your comment, spending OTHER PEOPLE's MONEY.

Hmm what does that put me in mind of, well here is what it put's me in mind of.

The council housing that Thatcher sold off.
The State owned industry's including the utility's, north sea oil etc that Thacher sold off.
The plan to sell off the NHS which is I have to tell you very much a dream of the Tory Party despite there private doctor health minister whom most NHS staff hate to high heaven for his hypocrisy.

You see the country worked, we did not have people on the street's unless they actually chose to live on the street's and then tramp's as we knew them were extremely rare - usually the social services would check up on them and if here was a mental health problem they would try to help them.

Free Education, you do know that educated kid's drive our economy by providing a skilled and HOME GROWN workforce.
Free School meals and NO food bank's, you do know there is a correlation between proper nutrition and intelligence.
Fully staffed public services, open library's and Citizen's Advice Bureaus, Decent workers right.
No more zero hours contracts driving a slave workforce of agency and migrant's whom come and go at the employers whim.

You know here is the truth the Tory's are Patently Evil, I am actually not keen on Labour and wished we had an SNP for Britain but I would damn well prefer the Labour party over the Tory's any day.

What happened to all that money that Thatcher made from the sell off's, oh yes that's right the Tory's dominated south of England profited extremely well during those years did they not while the rest of the nation was left to ROT.

So what is that about spending OTHER people's money because remember I am a tax payer as well and it's MY money the Tory's are Mis-spending on there vile satanic ideological ultra right wing economic goal of impoverishing the poor so that the excess population (the poor and the destitute) will diminish through natural wastage (Die OFF).

What do you actually know about Tory History, it is full of death and suffering, from the workhouses to the miners strike's to the destruction of a perfectly functional welfare system they have hated ever since it was brought in after the war, you do realize of course that Thatcher sabotaged it DELIBERATELY and that Tony Blair was actually NOT a labour guy at all but modeled his policy's on Thatchers, labour voters kept voting for him because the Tory's had no were left to go but even further right and even though those same labour voters had become jaded and disgusted with Labour in the Blair years they knew they had no choice.

You do know that it is a minority of utter scum bag's that keep our nation from ever becoming proportional and if we had been your beloved Tory's that bunch of thieving self serving corrupt scum bag's would have hardly been in power at all in the last century and if we do ever get a proportional representation system while we still have a credible BRITISH socialist party they are likely to never be in power again as well after what they have done to people.

Do you forget the sick couple for example (one among hundreds of thousand's) whom died one after the other when there benefit's were stopped and there utility's had been turned off in the middle of winter.
Actual death by starvation.

People on the street's.

Do you actually believe the lie that there are more people in work, you know once they are homeless - sanctioned etc they are not even counted as unemployed or for that matter as claimant's so those statistics are full of lies AND is it work when they are working hand to mouth with nothing left over on zero hours contract's not knowing were they are going to get there next loaf of bread or if they are even going to be able to afford one OR IS IT SLAVERY by the elite whom want to prey upon OUR OWN PEOPLE.

There are simply no words to express the utter rage I feel toward that group of criminal's.

So what happened to all that money the Tory's stole from the NATION, that they spent on there own local authority's down south eh!.

What was that about spending other people's money.


Your beloved Tory's even stripped away our armed forces to save tax for the rich, there was NEVER any need for austerity in the UK but they used that as an excuse to push through there long dreamed off scrapping of the welfare system, a welfare system I must add which Thatcher had deliberately turned Toxic as I said before by taking way the wage index link law allowing wages to then not keep pace with inflation and setting us firmly down the road that led to over payed desk jockey boss's and underpaid staff in every sector of British industry.

You Know Cameron even hired a company which he had a personal vested interest in to put our own sick off of there benefit's by most often fraudulently claiming they were well, over half of appeal's (when people were well enough to appeal) were granted in favor of the claimant but they made it an automatic process to just say they were well and have there benefit's stopped there and then and that company that our TAX money was being used to pay for was actually not even a British company but instead it was French company part owned and ran by a female acquaintance of Cameron.

Our train fare's (the one sticking point I do have with Major despite actually liking him SINCE he was a Conservative not a Tory) since the rail network's were sold off now fund the nationally owned GERMAN and FRENCH railway company's whom bought into the hugely profitable British network.

Remember all of those sold off company's and council housing, all that money was going into the public purse when they were in profit, government benefit's for rent payment's therefore ended up going full circle.

You know all of those benefit's as well, have you noticed how the high street's have shrunk so extremely fast once the Tory's got in, why - because those benefit's got spent in there entirety and effectively subsidized the retail industry in the UK.

You really believe the Tory's are right OR is it just a case of they are right for YOU and sod everyone else which of course is the Tory way is'nt it.

Sorry if I seem to be taking out of you I am just a bit worked up and I really do hate the Tory's with a passion, not so much the people as there belief's and policy's which are totally evil and anti Christian in nature.

Two percent of GDP on defense eh, were is it going all that tax payer money, oh that's right it goes into private company's owned by of course Tory's.

I just wish the people of this country were intelligent enough to see how they have been played by these criminal's - or at least could remember.

originally posted by: LABTECH767

Here is where you are wrong

Really????

Your rant is all over the place .... and proves you have a hatred that doesent

enable you to see the wood for the trees. You give Thatcher too much credit for

everything wrong with the country .... she was only PM for 11 years where as

Blair was PM for 13 years What did he do? It could be said that it

was he who opened the door to privatising the health service.

**PFI has been a lousy deal. As estimated a few years ago, the UK state stands to pay £304bn to acquire assets with a 2012 capital value of £56bn – the kind of interest rate usually meted out to poor families by Wonga and Brighthouse.
Labour pledge to bring PFI contracts in-house alarms business leaders
Read more
The anti-PFI animus at Labour’s conference is understandable and of course shadow chancellor John McDonnell reaps applause by attacking his party’s past. In the noughties Labour gave PFI a huge boost: you will build nothing unless through PFI, Alan Milburn once instructed the NHS on Tony Blair’s behalf; Gordon Brown literally buried the scandalous truth of London tube financing in a hole in the ground.

Then, Labour said it could not raise investment funds by borrowing. But that was and remains a political not a fiscal calculation. The Office for Budget Responsibility says national debt would now be 2% of GDP higher if public rather than private finance had been used in PFI deals;in the light of the effects of the financial crash on public debt, that’s puny. And it’s also true, as the Commons Treasury select committee has said, that borrowing under PFI has typically cost twice the rate at which the state could have borrowed - a difference that has grown during the era of low interest rates since 2008.**

www.theguardian.com...

What do you actually know about Tory History.

Well I think I am as able to read as well as you can?? but it is obvious we have

very different perceptions!

What are your views on *personal responsibilities* because you seem to believe

there are none.

There are simply no words to express the utter rage I feel toward that group of criminal's.

It shows

I just wish the people of this country were intelligent enough to see how they have been played by these criminal's - or at least could remember.

Well every five years the people get a vote to elect the government they

want and so at least 51% get the government they want?

So by your estimation that makes at least 51% of the country unintelligent

a reply to: eletheia

Blair was an abomination. His terrible performance as a PM, does not take away from Thatchers terrible performance as a PM.

They were BOTH awful for the country, and did horrific amounts of damage to the lives of the ordinary citizen.

a reply to: fusiondoe

I have no desire to repeat myself.

Here's a couple of posts I made in another thread of yours;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

One thing that may be of interest to people that I didn't mention in either of those posts;
Thatcher was heading for defeat in the next General Election - she was extremely disliked and her economic and domestic policies had proven unsuccessful and unpopular.
Thatcher had proposed massive cuts to the UK's Armed Forces - the largest cuts ever proposed by any government both before or since. She planned to completely decimate all three forces.
A very small part of those cuts was the proposed mothballing of HMS Endurance which was almost permanently on service in the South Atlantic.
Through diplomatic sources Thatcher had also/ let it be known that she might be agreeable to discussions with Argentina relating to the possibility of joint sovereignty for The Falkland Islands.
The ruling military junta who were under enormous pressure in Argentina were emboldened by this and saw it as a sign of weakness decided to invade The Falklands.
Thatcher was surprised by the strength of public opinion but being the astute politician she was did a complete U-turn and the rest as they say is history.

Thatcher was re-elected on the wave of jingoistic fervour and then quietly began the process of scaling down our Armed Forces - a policy continued by every administration since.

And I haven't even begun to touch on her selling off the family silver to enable her husband and all his banking / industrialist cronies to make some of the biggest financial killings the worlds stock markets have ever seen.

A horrible, despicable woman.

a reply to: eletheia

www.endevil.com...
www.newstatesman.com...

There is only so much evil the world will suffer and we British are not like people in a third world country whom a junta can treat any way they like, the Tory's AND Labour have to understand that the public WANT justice, we want these people brought to trial and there dirty dealing's aired not white washed away, it is time for the Labour movement to stop giving the Tory's back door's that they can get out of trouble once there action's are brought to light.

Sadly this will not happen in my lifetime and the whole point of dumbing down our own youth and claiming that there are too many old folk's is because the Tory's WANT our people to be dumb, stupid mindless sheep that they can send to the slaughter as there great, great grandfathers once did in time's such as the great war - when after the revolution in Russia the elite were so terrified of the same thing happening here that they artificially prolonged the first world war in order to cull as many of the working class as possible.

That was fear of communism, socialism of the type we have in the UK is nothing like communism as you well know, it is actually democratic socialism based on ensuring our kid's are cared for, they are educated to make a strong future generation and our nation is a nation of it's people not a nation of slaves ruled over by the ultra elite whom just want to turn out country into a tax haven.
www.bbc.co.uk...
www.mirror.co.uk...
www.independent.co.uk... .html

Here is the point, the British people have began to wake up and to realize what is being done to them, why do you think in spite of the media assault on Labour and especially on Corbyn he still won enough votes that if the DUP had not joined May he would now be in number 10.

And if you are worried about policy's do remember we live in a democracy (in theory when the MP's are not working for back handers from private interests which at least half of them have in the past on both party's) and any policy's and major changes have to be voted through parliament (which is why I am angry with labour because they could have stopped the Tory's in many of there action's but chose not too perhaps in a reverse psychology way they intended to allow the Tory's to do there harm so that the public would then suffer at the Tory's hand's and then vote themselves back in as the only credible alternative too the Tory's).

Actually we not really live in a democracy at all, we have no proportional representation, a house of Lord's stuffed with elitist prick's and a system which is actually more rightly called a Parliamentary Monarchy which favours the feudal baron's with there magna carta right's over the people of this nation whom are still regarded as serfs by them behind closed door's (as the freemen found out you do need the money and status though to have those rights - which the city of London uses all the time in it's dirty dealing's).

Hey you know what, God work's in mysterious way's because as I have pointed out before My own mother is technically a hereditary peer - BUT she was robbed of her inheritance by many scum bags whom were technically her feudal juniors, her distant cousin Lord McAlpine whom was Thatchers treasurer for the Tory Party, linked to possible paedophilia as well but the case was dropped and whom hid out in Venice when there was a scandal that you never heard about 'probably' before that - was definitely involved as were several other so called Lord's, she was even asked to have a meeting with Lord Woodrow Wyatt whom came all the way to Liverpool about Aintree racecourse, there is even a false Lord whom is apparently using her title.
My mother was wrongfully deprived of her inheritance, her own family were also culpable and she had to scrub the floors in the birds eye factor in Liverpool just to feed her kid's, non of us had good education's and a bunch of crook's and thieves whom stole what they have did and even got themselves into politics as I point out here.

Other's involved in the fraud included Lord Derby - the old own the current one is only a distant relative of him and is actually innocent entirely of his predecessors action's which included claiming rent on land he did not own which actually belonged to my mother though she never received it, and we also have it on good advice that Lord Sefton was involved as well.

So what was that about personal responsibility, do you even know what that mean's, let's see for me that mean's being responsible for one's own action's, having morality, empathy and humanity, regarding other's as an extension of yourself and just because you can not feel what they are feeling does not mean that suffering is not also your own.

Only mentally deficient being's such as Sociopath's and psychopaths actually lack empathy and sadly despite them being mentally deficient in that way they are actually also very clever if utterly self serving individual's, so I am sure a good view of psychological profiles will show just how many are in government's around the world and indeed here in the UK.

But for me far more disturbing is the fact that not all Tory's are simply mentally deficient, some of them are simply misguided and believe what they believe.

Another thing that angers me is the idiot's that vote for one party or another not because they chose to but because there family did before them so it becomes like a foot ball team when in fact it is most definitely not a sport, our political party's do not have the right to our loyalty and we should feel free to vote for whomever we choose come the day of the vote based on our best informed choice.

And there is a serious problem, the Tory's to me are Liar's, and for the past 30 years Labour has been just as bad but I actually do believe Corbyn is NOT a liar, I only hope that he lives up to my belief if he win's the next election WHICH I BELIEVE HE SHALL barring election rigging and ballot papers mysteriously going missing then the same number of votes as the number of missing ballot papers swinging it in favour of the Tory's again? (of Cameron would never have been prime minister, Miliband would have been and I and many other's utterly and truly believe it was a rigged election, remember the Tory's were going to engineer a coup in the 70's against a labour government but found another way to get there way, Lord Mountbatten was going to act as interim prime minster - dictator and we were going to be put under martial law to protect the interest of the elite just as thatcher considered doing during the miners strike).

news.bbc.co.uk...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.thelondoneveningpost.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Interestingly Thatcher was best of friend's with a coup leader by the name of Pinochet among other's and that was not just a convenience during the Falkland's war either.