Has the seven year tribulation begun?

No its not . even needing to ask shows it is not .
simply first ( VERY first thing would be a world ruler who brings 3.5 years of peace to the whole planet .
That kind of sign would be hard to miss .
second stage would be the ruler then wanting to disband all religion . Aka the anti Christ .
Anti simply means does not believe in Christ not some dude with horns and red skin .
Alone with every one needing a number to get anything food shelter every thing no cash money at all .
say a kind of super bank card would work .
now the 3 years of peace have going by people are sick of it and revolt starting the last war .
Blood as high as a horses bridle 1/3 of teh world will die in this part .
Then at one second to midnight Jesus will return and put a stop to the madness lock up the devil and all his lackeys .
will be locked into the lake of fire for 1000 years and a new earth will be made and peace will be every ware lions and lambs kind of thing .
And just when you think every thing is hunky dory the devil will be freeded and once again try and destroy the earth after 1000 years .
And this my friends is were it ends nothing on what comes after that does the devil win will earth be destroyed ? no one knwos tune in 1200 years from now to see the conclusion .

originally posted by: Yule C Mann
First, the destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17) still must happen before it all unravels.

First, where in Isaiah 17 is it said that the destruction of Damascus has anything to do with the end-times? It is presented as an isolated event which has no sequel.
Secondly, the inclusion of Ephraim in the same passage shows that the prophecy belongs to the crisis of ch7 when the joint armies of Damascus and Ephraim were besieging Jerusalem and Isaiah needed to reassure the king and people of Judah. For the prophet's purposes, the destruction and exile of Damascus at the hands of Tiglath-Pilezer was enough to do the job. It is not an end-times prophecy. Nothing in the Bible says it was an end-times prophecy.

The man of sin revealed himself in the temple (US Congressional building) where he gave the house of the strong man (US Military) over to the Sodomites by resending DADT. If the military is divided, then the house cannot stand. Also the kingdom will come to desolation. Therefore we have the Obamanation of Desolation.

We need to come down to earth about the real meaning of Biblical words like "abomination"and "desolation".
The original model is the conduct of Antiochus Epiphanes towards the Jerusalem temple, when he set up an idolatrous object of worship (THAT is what "abomination" means) and also suspended the traditional worship, plunging the people into a state of spiritual isolation (THAT is what "desolation" means). A modern equivalent has to be doing something similar.

I really hoped we had heard the last of that silly "obamanation" wordplay. If you must have meaningless wordplays, the one in current use is "the TRUMPets of Revelation".

a reply to: Seede


your inquiry:

My question is that if all this be true then what connection does it have with the tribulation? Are the Angels, Giants, Nephilim, and the Eliouds all spirits and have no physicality? If so then what effect do they have with the tribulation of the terrestrial world? If they have survived then how did they survive when the Genesis account tells us that all life left upon the earth was exterminated? Even if they did survive what is the role they play in the demise of the tribulation of Jacob?

just to put in my thoughts on those points, if I may....


the Angels, spirts, even the hybrid human like beings and assorted chimera that polluted the human DNA Genome before the Flood... all were locked into the Earth below our feet...only in the end-times will some Angel with the key-to-the-Abyss open the portal/passageway and release these trapped entities

the beings from the Earthly prison/Abyss will both inhabit living beings & persons, but will also cause 'science' to tinker with ancient genetics previously locked in the frozen Permafrost of Siberia for example or partial genomes from some sort of DNA like substitute found in ancient strata under the Antarctic ice (most likely stored there to escape the damaging heat of a warm planet...by the Prince of this planet we know as Lucifer)

all these legions of various lifeforms of combined spirit and physical animal & human hybrids, all will become inter-active with the physical/natural world, although some entities that return to roam the Earth will remain spirits/or what we might call demons...


this is the second part of the prophetic Revelation 12 Sign, of the constellation Virgo we seen during 9-23 September 2017... the 2nd part of the Prophecy is the Dragon sweeping 1/3 of his Army of Fallen Angels from the sky onto the Earth~~ call it the opening of the Abyss created at the time of the Noah Flood, where some of the Earth trapped Spirits found their way into the hearts & minds of men through contaminating some of the plants/vines & spores of the plant & mushroom kingdoms that live and sustain in the Earth environment


check out the Hebrew & Jewish Mysticism about how some evil spirits have somewhat escaped the Abyss prison by interweaving their Spirit Genome with the plant/vine genetic structure...


that's all the further I dare go on this subject without adequate armor for the Soul.....

a reply to: DISRAELI

Texta reply to: Seede At the time when Daniel was written, the sacrifice was the central act connecting God with his worshippers. Perhaps, for a future fulfilment, we should understand the nearest Christian equivalent, namely the Lord's Supper, the Eucharist (this does not mean that I accept the idea that the Eucharist is an act of sacrifice). Paul said that the Lord's Supper would be a proclamation "until he comes". It seems plausible to me that a false Christ would make a point of saying "I'm here, now, so you don't have to do it any more", and forbidding the assembly of those Christian groups which refused to comply. Alternatively, the forbidding of Christian assembly in general, apart from those meetings which accepted his claim, would have the same effect.

As a Nazarene I would have appreciate that premise and I thank you for your input. I was left confused after realizing that Revelation is a Christian perspective and not rabbinical teaching. Daniel is a prophetic understanding but was not certain that it would be accepted by Christianity when first started your study but I believe that it is somewhat more understandable to me now than ever before.

After rereading Dan 9:27 ["And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."]

I noted that the verse does not say that the sacrifice will stop at the same time that the oblation will stop. It simply states that in the midst of the week that both will stop. The sacrifice did stop in the first century A.D. but the oblation has not stopped as yet. If they both stop in the midst of of the week then do you reason that we are still in that midst of the week? If that is the case then the first century A.D. till today we are still in that week of Daniel. Either that or the sacrifice must be restarted and then forbidden once again to connect Revelation to Daniel.

I am not trying to argue but only understand more of Daniel.

a reply to: St Udio

The other perspective is to delve into the ideas of transhumanism, moving beyond human.

If we are made in God's image, then what does that mean to move beyond human ... take ourselves beyond what God has created by our own power? We would be moving to declare ourselves as gods and not needing God.

If the theory of the nephilim is that they polluted the creation of God through intermixing their own DNA, then would transhumanism be a modern equivalent?

originally posted by: silo13
You will remember these very words when the time for Christ to come arrives.
But you'll be left behind... And you will remember your own words.

Because there's one thing that Christ is NOT, and that is forgiving.

originally posted by: Seede
I noted that the verse does not say that the sacrifice will stop at the same time that the oblation will stop. It simply states that in the midst of the week that both will stop. The sacrifice did stop in the first century A.D. but the oblation has not stopped as yet. If they both stop in the midst of of the week then do you reason that we are still in that midst of the week? If that is the case then the first century A.D. till today we are still in that week of Daniel. Either that or the sacrifice must be restarted and then forbidden once again to connect Revelation to Daniel.

I don't think Daniel means to separate the two. It just looks like a way of saying that the whole traditional worship was stopped. That was the effect of the policy of Antiochus Epiphanes, who is the original model for the whole concept.
I was proposing a Christian interpretation of the Daniel passage, in which "the stopping of sacrifice and oblation" is replaced by "the stopping of Christian worship", as the New Testament equivalent. It may be necessary to detach the whole final "week" from the rest and make it purely about the end-times.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

This was an interesting read and I thought I would address your idea with what I've seen/read/experienced so far in this life.

From what we can observe in species on this planet, the more intelligent a species is the more it is prone to violence. This may be a result of a greater degree of independent thought and self awareness, mixed with basic survival instincts. I don't know if this is down to genetics or simply an environmental factor which forces the need in many to dominate, control or simply oppose others, but we've seen this behavior show up much more in animals that are considered to be the most intelligent (e.g gorillas, dolphins).

Now the idea of collectivism that you propose is only seen in insects (correct me if I'm wrong) and the only way it can work is on the basis of a "hive mind". In other words, to have absolute dedicated collectivism in a species, there must be at least one ruling mind over them all to dictate or force the doctrine and negate individualism. Otherwise the little soldier ants might start thinking "what if I take some more of that food for myself today because I like it so much" creating a domino effect that evolves the species into something else. I don't think humans would ever turn into something like that, except for dramatic global scale political changes, like an established authoritarian world government. But even that wouldn't last.

In the end what do we really care about thought? Do you care more about the human species or yourself and/or your circle of loved ones? If we were to put up a ridiculous scenario that involves having to choose between saving yourself and the ones you care the most about or sacrificing all that to evolve humanity in a perceived good way, what would you choose? I think most would choose the former, others would lie about choosing the latter and I'm sure there's a number of individuals who'd genuinely choose the latter. - diverse people, diverse thinking - individualism. Collectivism would kill that identity in the name of serving something. Even if overall it would benefit all, it seems like slavery. I prefer the way of destruction and evolution of the fittest. There is a fine balance to that and as long as the balance is kept, we will keep progressing.

a reply to: Odyssian

From what we can observe in species on this planet, the more intelligent a species is the more it is prone to violence. This may be a result of a greater degree of independent thought and self awareness, mixed with basic survival instincts. I don't know if this is down to genetics or simply an environmental factor which forces the need in many to dominate, control or simply oppose others, but we've seen this behavior show up much more in animals that are considered to be the most intelligent (e.g gorillas, dolphins).

I counter that with pigs, which are incredibly smart but shy away from confrontations unless their homes, bodies, &/or litters are threatened. Also, gorillas are actually incredibly misunderstood & peaceful animals. Perhaps you meant chimpanzees, which are definitely known to wage tribal wage wars like humans?

Now the idea of collectivism that you propose is only seen in insects (correct me if I'm wrong) and the only way it can work is on the basis of a "hive mind".

It's also the main theory behind many tribal communities and indigenous communities. Many of them allocate work among their members so that everyone can contribute to the community to the best of their personal abilities. In fact, Marx's final version of communism is similar to this. And unlike common perceptions, true communism in theory has no authority figures at all, like the communist hippie communities where everyone knew their role and contributed accordingly. Help how you can and take what you need.

In other words, to have absolute dedicated collectivism in a species, there must be at least one ruling mind over them all to dictate or force the doctrine and negate individualism.

Common misconception. For example, the "queen" bee isn't a dictator at all. In fact, she's basically a slave to the rest of the hive, being literally trapped in a location and forced to mate & give birth for her entire life. Not only that, but the colony chooses the queen, not the other way around. Here are 2 videos that show that when potential queen bees are introduced to a colony, the colony will either immediately attack and murder her or immediately accept & start feeding her.



Also, I think my idea would actually increase individualism, not decrease or eliminate it. In our current "work or die" societies, far too many people have to place their individual dreams and goals aside in order to work dead-end jobs just to pay basic bills. In my mind, this means that there could be any number of potential philosophers, explorers, artists, and inventors who simply never get the chance to pursue their true "callings". In other words, that's a massive decrease in true individualism due to the requirements of modern society.

But if each civilization was merely focused on "collective survival and improvement", this would change dramatically. It's relatively easy to find or cultivate food, to build basic buildings, and to protect ourselves from basic natural events. So once the bare minimum for survival has been reached, my "homo hippy-itus" species would then begin focusing on "improvement". The individuals who are fascinated by cooking would start focusing on improving cooking recipes and ingredients. The ones who enjoy the arts would start focusing on improving art techniques, supplies, and mediums. The ones who enjoy traveling would focus on improving traveling methods, courses, and equipment. The ones who like taking care of and/or teaching would focus on improving teaching techniques and equipment. Etc etc etc. How would that stifle individualism? Give it 1,000 years with no warfare or taboos against shamans/magic/sciences and it would greatly surpass what we have right now.

In the end what do we really care about thought? Do you care more about the human species or yourself and/or your circle of loved ones? If we were to put up a ridiculous scenario that involves having to choose between saving yourself and the ones you care the most about or sacrificing all that to evolve humanity in a perceived good way, what would you choose? I think most would choose the former, others would lie about choosing the latter and I'm sure there's a number of individuals who'd genuinely choose the latter. - diverse people, diverse thinking - individualism. Collectivism would kill that identity in the name of serving something. Even if overall it would benefit all, it seems like slavery. I prefer the way of destruction and evolution of the fittest. There is a fine balance to that and as long as the balance is kept, we will keep progressing.

One, you can't really argue against a new system because it "seems like slavery" when our current system still involves actual slavery (such as bonded labor, prison labor, the "kafala" system, etc). Even in the worse case, I think those would simply cancel each other out.

And two, I notice that you're only using negative hypotheticals for my idea. Therefor, I'll only use a negative version of your own hypothetical as a rebuttal lol. What if your family member were the greedy capitalists of today like "Pharma Bro" Martin Shkreli or a corrupt Wall Street executive? Or if your family member were a serial killer or terrorist? Would you still protect that family member over the good of the public? Because even Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer had relatives.

Also, since when was the "collective good" a bad thing? That's literally the whole point in our judicial system. That's why things like drunk driving and fraud are crimes in the first place. They're supposed to protect the collective public against the negative actions of the individual. Even the Preamble of the US Constitution agrees with me:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Also, I disagree with the idea that "Collectivism would kill that identity in the name of serving something". After all, isn't the whole idea of "nationalism" just another form of collectivism? If your theory were correct, wouldn't that mean that anyone who willingly lives in a nation or kingdom has already given up their individualism?

Oh yeah, for anyone wondering how this is related to the OP:
The context for my posts is that we're not living in the end times or any prophesied days of tribulation. I actually think it's the opposite, meaning that our species has finally created vastly better times than at pretty much any point in history. And I also think that the next version of hominid will advance even beyond our current limitations, which mainly derive from our negative desires & impulses. Religiously, I'm saying the next version of hominid would hopefully no longer come with the "ability/flaw" to be tempted by the Devil/Shaytan. That hominid I've already named "Homo Hippy-itus" & I think it would greatly surpass Homo Sapiens, just as Homo Sapiens greatly surpassed the previous hominids.

a reply to: GoShredAK

I f you have to ask...No it has not. It will be obvious. also..no peace in Israel yet. dead give away its not going on yet.

No but I've been married for ten years and there's been ten years of flatulation

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: GoShredAK

I f you have to ask...No it has not. It will be obvious. also..no peace in Israel yet. dead give away its not going on yet.

So as long as Israel does not have peace the end of the world can't come? Well that FINALLY explains things.

www.nowtheendbegins.com...

a reply to: BigBangWasAnEcho

"You haven't dug very deep. . If theism was a control mechanism we wouldn't need the perversion (religion)."

We don't need or require any form of organised religion to commune with a creator, if it exists that is. Show me one tiny shred of conclusive evidence as to the existence of God/Gods and i will be immensely impressed. Keep in mind i don't necessarily discount the notion i just require proof.

"So tell me, why was the first version the rebel version, and only the revisions are "submit to authority" narratives?"

Pertaining to the Bible? The first version of what exactly?

"PS, angels are harmonics from radio signals."

Harmonic life or harmonic what?

Where do the radio signals originate if they are responsible for Angels?

Possably worth keeping in mind you just limited Angels to below light speed.

Maybe that's why they are not here yet?

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: ntech



you get it....

from your post...verse 14; that event would be verse 14. Based on a reading of the entire Matthew 24 prophecy.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

the Virgo constellation & the once in history configuration with 12 'stars', sun/moon/ et al... is being satisified in Rev. 12

but the 2nd 'sign' of the Virgo unique configuration (satisifying the All Nations as witness to Gospel requirement) still needs to be fulfilled...
namely the Woman is hidden in the wilderness ...while at the same time the Dragon sweeps 1/3 of the Stars onto the Earth


so, imho... from the September 2017 Sign-in-the-heavens (Virgo/also Rev 12) until the time when 1/3 of the 'Stars' are cast to Earth which could very well be a window of years up to 40 years....
As an possible example we could look at the time interval between the Burial of Christ & destruction-of-Temple in 70AD the Death/Burial to symbolize the Gospel/Sign in Heaven and the Temple Destruction to symbolize the End-of-Age/Day-of-the-Lord

I think 40 years is way too long for the Dragon to Sweep 1/3 of the stars from heaven (which interprets into fallen Angels inhabiting Earth, taking over men's minds As in the days of Noah...

I think that Satan/Lucifer can reestablish the Pre-Flood World in as little as 4 years, not 40...partly because the scriptures use the term... for a season often in the prophecy about the end-times/Great Tribulation era


just a little brain storming about the recent events and were the prophetic time-line is at present

I would pose that the "witness to all nations" clause has been fulfilled as well. Since there is no other qualifiers on that statement that I can find then Occam's razor dictates the simplest explanation for it. Simply that only a representative of each nation was needed to fulfill the requirement. Not every person from every nation. Some nations got more some got less but when the last nation/tribe got the gospel it only needed one individual to hear it. More than one was just gravy.

a reply to: Seede

I saw your question and thought I would give you an answer. Technically we are still in the 70 weeks of Daniel. Here's what happened. At the time of Jesus we were at the 69th week and then the weeks stopped. Why? Because something else happened. And that something else was the day of Jezreel prophecy of Hosea. Knocking 14 chapters down to a nutshell what it's telling you is that at the time it was written Israel and Judah was to face a long term Leviticus 26 curse. Followed by the day of Jezreel. But then in Hosea 6 we get the time frame of the curse and day of Jezreel. 2 days of the curse followed by the day of Jezreel. But those days are in the presence of the Lord. So per Psalms 90 and 2nd Peter 3-8 those days are 1000 year periods of time.

So at the end of the 69th week the curse started. And if you look at the history of Israel for the last 2000 years it would seem they have been serving it. And this would mean the 70th week occurs at the end of the curse. Followed by the 1000 year day of Jezreel / 1000 year reign of the saints of Revelation.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I probably did mean chimpanzees, but I also recall a documentary about gorillas seen to act on emotions like greed, envy and exhibiting aggressive behavior towards others of their kind (I could be wrong here).

Interesting videos and insight about the bees, thanks for sharing.

Weather the written communism that seems to be so good would ever work that way when applied, I will say not for our species. Then again, we are talking about a hypothetical different homo-species here, so it may work then.

When you talk about "our current system" and refer to the capitalism/corporatism in the US, I should add that I'm not from the US so even though I'm fairly familiar with how things work there, I'm sure you have a better idea of the situation. The place where I currently live has stronger socialist influences and wealth distribution among its people (I think you'd like it more here in Denmark).

To answer the question of what would I do if my family or loved ones were the big baddies - try to use the situation to my advantage if possible, or do nothing, observe how things evolve and try to learn new tactics of getting what I want.

I agree that nationalism, just as collectivism kills identity. It's just another word/tool used to manipulate. But as long as the nationalism isn't enforced, people living under a nation don't need to give up their individualism. Also the existence of various nations across the globe with different governing systems give us (well, most of us) a freedom to move elsewhere if we don't like it where we're born.

Overall interesting point of view. I will accept that for a hypothetical different homo-species the collectivism system you suggest may work, if they're all at the same intellect level (I'm not sure if intellect is the right word here) and all agree to adhere to this system. In our little reality and species, it wouldn't, unless enforced.

originally posted by: Templeton

2. The bible says the end times starts with 3 days of night. I don't know how that would happen, a super volcano's ash cloud maybe? In any case, it hasn't happened so according to biblical text we are not in the end time.

Which verse/verses say that? I haven't seen those I guess. thanks!

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: GoShredAK

Nonsense. From a spiritual perspective, people should just focus on being the best people that they can be. Instead of worrying about if the sky will suddenly rip open and we'll all die in holy war between Angels & Demons, try focusing on being a good mom/dad, brother/sister, neighbor, uncle/aunt, etc. I think people in many faiths focus too much on the supernatural "fire & brimstones" aspects and focus far too little on the "be a better person right now" aspect.

Have to disagree with you here unfortunately. Being good does not get anyone to Heaven, this is why Jesus died on the cross.

1. The Bible makes clear that getting into heaven is not something we can accomplish in our own power. Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly teach, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." Being saved from sin and receiving eternal life cannot take place by our works. Getting into heaven requires faith in Jesus Christ.

2. Romans 3:23 teaches, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Ecclesiastes 7:20 adds, "Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins." No matter how hard you may try, even one sin is enough to keep you from heaven unless you have placed your faith in Jesus Christ.

3. Ephesians 2:8-9 states that "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast".

4. As Proverbs 16:25 reads, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death."

John 3:16 Jesus promised, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life". Romans 10:9 says "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Salvation occurs when we accept Jesus as Lord and believe He rose again from the dead.

We can't in our own efforts and goodness to receive eternal life. We have to place our faith in Jesus and know for certain we will have eternal life. Remember, salvation is not based on works, but on God's grace.

originally posted by: libertytoall

originally posted by: yuppa
a reply to: GoShredAK

I f you have to ask...No it has not. It will be obvious. also..no peace in Israel yet. dead give away its not going on yet.

So as long as Israel does not have peace the end of the world can't come? Well that FINALLY explains things.

I believe they are referring to 1 Thessalonians 5:3 as it describes the events regarding Israel during the tribulation period: "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.