Designating Antifa as a terrorist organization will lead to Tyranny

a reply to: Gryphon66

About all I can say in sum is this: It saddens me to see any groups, whether isolated across the country or secretly all in league with each other that are willing to bring terrorism to our shores.

Cheers then Gryphon. Have a good night and weekend.

a reply to: imwilliam

To you as well.

a reply to: Gryphon66


One last thought Gryphon. What would happen if, for lack of a better distinction, those on the left side of the political spectrum and their counterparts on the right side of the political spectrum were challenged to disavow an organization/ideology specific to their side of the spectrum . . . without debate or justification.

Just a simple, I disavow this group/position . . . your turn . . . you disavow this or that group/position. No debate, just one for one.

Where would we be at 10 steps into the disavow process? How about 20?

ETA: All assuming we didn't let the lawyers play, just regular more or less honest people

a reply to: imwilliam

It would be very problematic for me to participate as I have zero belief in the "left right" paradigm as anything other than to acknowledge that we the people are fed that garbage primarily from the media.

Would the last step in your plan be to disavow one's self? That's something of a Zen koan, no?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burgerbuddy

I'm sure you want the Guard to go after the Nazi terrorists as well? Right?

Sure, when they are designated as such.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Would the last step in your plan be to disavow one's self? That's something of a Zen koan, no?

lol . . . no I suppose there would have to be stopping point shy of that. I'm a little medieval, I could be talked into a willingness to exchange children in marriage. But maybe in keeping with more modern sensibilities, maybe when everyone agreed they could stomach having a cocktail with the other side? Maybe even enjoy one?

I don't know Gryphon, I'm not sure we can bridge the divide, but I think we have to try.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: yuppa


And today they declared everyone in ANTIFA as terrorist. which changes the punishments.

Really? Guess the US admin will be on trial in the Den Haag pretty soon. 83 percent of the US is AntiFA.

No it just means they wont be able to show up at protest liek they have been doing.

Any evidence to back this up? If the US has just given a clear bill to let KKK and Facists get away with genocide it's time to send in the international brigades and UN peace keepers. Not saying all AntiFA are innocent, that'd be stupid, but so is ignoring history and world events.

Yeah as soon as you give up the evidence of genocide.

a reply to: imwilliam


"Strangers on a Train"

originally posted by: imwilliam
a reply to: Gryphon66


One last thought Gryphon. What would happen if, for lack of a better distinction, those on the left side of the political spectrum and their counterparts on the right side of the political spectrum were challenged to disavow an organization/ideology specific to their side of the spectrum . . . without debate or justification.

Just a simple, I disavow this group/position . . . your turn . . . you disavow this or that group/position. No debate, just one for one.

Where would we be at 10 steps into the disavow process? How about 20?

ETA: All assuming we didn't let the lawyers play, just regular more or less honest people

The press never asks any of the left about it, whereas every repub has to answer the same question over and over.

How can they disavow something if they are never asked? Why should they, if it performs a service they agree with.

Pelosi caught wind of the FBI's paper that just came out, about how they warned cities and states about antifa last April.

That's why she got out ahead of it.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

" Designating Antifa as a terrorist organization will lead to Tyranny "


Good Manipulation of Think/Speak there Wilson . Your Chocolate Ration will now be Raised from 6 Grams a Week to Four Grams a Week . Praise Big Brother , Praise Him !

I'm sympathetic to the OP point about Pandoras box as everytime we the people give an inch the government takes a mile of our freedoms - patriot act anyone?

What we have is a lack of backbone on this and many other issues is upholding currently existing laws that have been around forever.

We dont need new designations, definitions or new law - that's just grandstanding and leads to overreach by government.

Soon as any two are caught simply saying "let's go bust some heads" they have entered into a criminal conspiracy to commit premeditated crime. The actual criminal event does not need to have occurred, it's conspiring to plan that violated the law.

That's a felony and they should be arrested charged and tried on that long existing criminal code.

a reply to: imwilliam

Bridging the divide is relatively simple. Enough people merely have to understand that there is no real divide.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burgerbuddy

I'm sure you want the Guard to go after the Nazi terrorists as well? Right?

Sure, when they are designated as such.

LOL, their actions and ideology aren't enough for you?

Seems to be with "ANTIFA."

originally posted by: Phoenix

We dont need new designations, definitions or new law - that's just grandstanding and leads to overreach by government.

Soon as any two are caught simply saying "let's go bust some heads" they have entered into a criminal conspiracy to commit premeditated crime. The actual criminal event does not need to have occurred, it's conspiring to plan that violated the law.

That's a felony and they should be arrested charged and tried on that long existing criminal code.

Agree completely.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I honestly haven't paid attention to it, I'll have to ask my Canadian friends what they think but, so far as i can tell, they're pissing people off royally and need a good kick in the nether parts.

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

So, what's the number of SJW Supremacists?

What's your source for the number?

Can you direct us to the website that discusses SJW Supremacy?

Thanks.

22 million KKK, Neo-Nazi supporters (9 pc)



I'm trying to find the link and source, but I thought that the SPCL said there were between 6000 and 8500 KKK and White Nationalists in the USA. I'll round up to 10,000 to be cautiously pessimistic.

Do you have a source with different numbers?

22 million KKK, Neo-Nazi supporters according to recent poll but still trying to dig out the poll to see how accurate a measure it was - www.washingtonpost.com... -a94f-3139abce39f5_story.html?utm_term=.d519c2afa56b

ETA: Poor sample size and large margin of error - but somewhere between 13 and 30 million Americans support KKK and Neo-Nazi views.

The Post-ABC poll was conducted Aug. 16 to 20 among a random national sample of 1,014 adults reached on cellular and landline phones. The margin of sampling error for overall results is plus or minus 3.5 percentage points.

The good news is the overwhelming majority of the US oppose them, but in only took a 6% vote share for war to break out in greece a few years back by neo-nazi Golden Dawn.

First off, bad link. No workie.

Second off, I responded to that poll in another thread. The poll did not ask them if they supported/agreed with KKK and Supremacist views. I can't find the poll either, but I do remember that the sampling was majority Democrat/Independent

Thanks - still struggling to find the original raw data myself - but got as close as possible without FOIA (which will probably do as figures are staggering) - here's the associated press statement debrief on how to create more objective journalism and stop the hate and ignorance on display - it should be essential reading for people of any political background. The media certainly haven't applied balanced reporting yet.

blog.ap.org...

--
Another recent area of confusion is the degree of overlap between the terms “white nationalist” and “white supremacist.” For many people the terms can be used almost interchangeably. Both terms describe groups that favor whites and support discrimination by race. There is however a subtle difference, at least in the views of the groups involved.

White nationalists say that white people are a distinct nation deserving of protection, and therefore they demand special political, legal and territorial guarantees for whites. White supremacists believe that whites are superior and therefore should dominate other races. Depending on the group and the context, AP writers are free to determine which description most aptly applies to a group or an individual in a particular situation.

Finally, a term has emerged in the news recently – an umbrella description for the far-left-leaning militant groups that resist neo-Nazis and white supremacists at demonstrations and other events. The movement calls itself antifa, a contraction for anti-fascists, and emulates historic anti-fascist actors in Europe going back to the 1930s. Until the term becomes better known, include a definition in close proximity to first use of the word.

Similarly, “alt-left” has recently been coined by some to describe far-left factions. Like “alt-right,” avoid using unless in a quotation and always include a definition.

For reference, here is the whole guidance on this topic, which has been updated to add “anti-Semitism” to the definition and a few other additions:

"“alt-right”
A political grouping or tendency mixing racism, white nationalism, anti-Semitism and populism; a name currently embraced by some white supremacists and white nationalists to refer to themselves and their ideology, which emphasizes preserving and protecting the white race in the United States. ""Avoid using the term generically and without definition, because it is not well-known globally and the term may exist primarily as a public relations device to make its supporters’ actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience. In AP stories discussing what the movement says about itself, the term “alt-right” (quotation marks, hyphen and lowercase) may be used in quotes or modified as in the self-described “alt-right” or so-called alt-right. ""Depending on the specifics of the situation, such beliefs might be termed racist, white supremacist or neo-Nazi; be sure to describe the specifics. Whenever “alt-right” is used in a story, include a definition: an offshoot of conservatism mixing racism, white nationalism, anti-Semitism and populism, or, more simply, a white nationalist movement. ""When writing on extreme groups, be precise and provide evidence to support the characterization. Report their actions, associations, history and positions to reveal their actual beliefs and philosophy, as well as how others see them. ""Some related definitions: ""racism The broad term for asserting racial or ethnic discrimination or superiority based solely on race, ethnic or religious origins; it can be by any group against any other group. ""white nationalism A subset of racist beliefs that calls for a separate territory and/or enhanced legal rights and protections for white people. Critics accuse white nationalists of being white supremacists in disguise. ""white separatism A term sometimes used as a synonym for white nationalism but differs in that it advocates a form of segregation in which races would live apart but in the same general geographic area. Text
----

blog.ap.org...

originally posted by: Phoenix
I'm sympathetic to the OP point about Pandoras box as everytime we the people give an inch the government takes a mile of our freedoms - patriot act anyone?

What we have is a lack of backbone on this and many other issues is upholding currently existing laws that have been around forever.

We dont need new designations, definitions or new law - that's just grandstanding and leads to overreach by government.

Soon as any two are caught simply saying "let's go bust some heads" they have entered into a criminal conspiracy to commit premeditated crime. The actual criminal event does not need to have occurred, it's conspiring to plan that violated the law.

That's a felony and they should be arrested charged and tried on that long existing criminal code.

Agreed with all that - hopefully US citizens will use their democratic rights to oust the openly self-proclaimed neo-nazi adivisers and ministers in the US admin (see science agriculture minister who has no knowlege or understanding of science but shares the Hungarian Nazi badge and white-supremacist, anti-semetic views many of his colleagues do) - www.theguardian.com...

There's far better ways of fighting facists than the ones seen in modern day US.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

Completely false. They are not a peaceful anti-government group. They are a violent group against Americans, not the government, the people. Domestic terrorism is already a thing, it has not led to what you claim.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burgerbuddy

I'm sure you want the Guard to go after the Nazi terrorists as well? Right?

Sure, when they are designated as such.

LOL, their actions and ideology aren't enough for you?

Seems to be with "ANTIFA."

Ideology no, actions, show me and we will see.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: burgerbuddy

I'm sure you want the Guard to go after the Nazi terrorists as well? Right?

Sure, when they are designated as such.

LOL, their actions and ideology aren't enough for you?

Seems to be with "ANTIFA."

Ideology no, actions, show me and we will see.

I addressed my comments specifically to the comments of someone else.

Generally speaking, if you're saying that we can judge terrorists by their provable actions, I concur.

Also, I would add that when an ideology has a centuries-old legacy of violence and terror, we can take that into account when considering the proponents of that ideology.