DOJ Documents Dump On Clinton Lynch Meeting Prove Media Collusion; FBI Lied

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Did you notice where the user said "to be more precise"?

That's not "spinning" that's clarification ... and was backed up with facts.

"Trump is the most unpopular president ever to come in to office. Only JQA received less of the popular vote"

I say thats not true, there have been several others.

He then totally changes what he was referencing, saying no its not about who received less of the popular vote, but who did not win the popular vote and then he received second most.

This is not "being more precise". It is being wrong in his or her initial statement, getting called out on it, and then changing the argument.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: Grambler

To be more precise..

Out of Presidential elections where the winner LOST the popular vote to another candidate like trump did, but still became President..Trump ranks second to last amongst all Presidents and it has been 200 years since we had a comparison.

For example, you cite Clinton at 42.9% and Nixon at 43.4%...they actually WON the popular vote with those percentages because no one got more than them.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yep, cause thats what you were talking about when you said

"Only one other President in history, John Quincy Adams, received less of the popular vote in 1824. "

But you keep spinning.

What about my last post was "spinning"?

You cited an error in my explanation of the numbers, wrongly attributed it to dishonesty...and I corrected the description with more precision?

Yet..you still call the math Spin?

What is spin in the chart I posted?...cuz for now I will assume you chose the wrong wording with "spinning"...rather than assume you are trying to be dishonest and dismiss literal historical numbers as "spinning".

a reply to: Grambler

....a nd we would quibble about what words mean for the next 15 pages, and achieve nothing, Grambler.

Don't you find the statistics presented to be interesting at all? It's a logical clarification of what the poster meant.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Did you notice where the user said "to be more precise"?

That's not "spinning" that's clarification ... and was backed up with facts.

"Trump is the most unpopular president ever to come in to office. Only JQA received less of the popular vote"

I say thats not true, there have been several others.

He then totally changes what he was referencing

No...I did not change what I was referenceing..at all..

I reworded the explanation of the ranking ("to be more precise") after you pointed out my explanation of the ranking was incorrect.

You seem dishonest to me.

a reply to: soberbacchus

An observation based upon experience: stubbornness is not dishonesty.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: Grambler

To be more precise..

Out of Presidential elections where the winner LOST the popular vote to another candidate like trump did, but still became President..Trump ranks second to last amongst all Presidents and it has been 200 years since we had a comparison.

For example, you cite Clinton at 42.9% and Nixon at 43.4%...they actually WON the popular vote with those percentages because no one got more than them.

en.wikipedia.org...

Yep, cause thats what you were talking about when you said

"Only one other President in history, John Quincy Adams, received less of the popular vote in 1824. "

But you keep spinning.

What about my last post was "spinning"?

You cited an error in my explanation of the numbers, wrongly attributed it to dishonesty...and I corrected the description with more precision?

Yet..you still call the math Spin?

What is spin in the chart I posted?...cuz for now I will assume you chose the wrong wording with "spinning"...rather than assume you are trying to be dishonest and dismiss literal historical numbers as "spinning".

You could have said, "You are right, I was incorrect with the numbers I listed. However, he actually was second lowest among people who lost the popular vote"

But you didn't. You said, "To be more precise".

In fact, you even have Gryphon here saying you were just clarifying and acting like you didn't make an error.

So fine, lets talk about these numbers.

First,. they have nothing to do with the OP.

Second, your original premise was that Trump was the most unpopular candidate ever to come into office in 200 years, and apparently you are using these numbers to back that up.

There is no logical connection as to why that would be the case. The more relevant number would just be the numbers I listed which you originally were talking about where you erred; the Presidents coming into office with the lowest percentage of the popular vote.

But that didn't fit your narrative, so you shifted.

Hence you are spinning what your argument was because the original data you cited proved your conclusion incorrect.

a reply to: Grambler

I agreed because it seems like a logical clarification. It apparently doesn't seem that way to you.

Again, a difference of opinion.

Stepping away now ... have fun guys and play nice.

a reply to: Grambler

Here..

This statement is historical fact:

In Presidential elections where a candidate LOST the Popular Vote to another candidate..
But still became President..
Only John Quincy Adams in 1824, 193 years ago, received a smaller percentage of the popular vote than Trump.

This statement is historical fact:

No President in history has lost the popular vote to another candidate by the number of votes that Trump did.

This statement is also historical fact:

Only two other Presidents in history, John Quincy Adams and Hayes lost the popular vote to their opponent by a greater percentage margin than Trump and still became President.

Sidenote: Hayes was given the Presidency in a negotiation with the Southern States allowing them to handle Civil War reconstruction on their own and having Federal troops withdrawal etc.

So Technically I don't count Hayes as a legit election..

Immediately after the presidential election of 1876, it became clear that the outcome of the race hinged largely on disputed returns from Florida, Louisiana and South Carolina–the only three states in the South with Reconstruction-era Republican governments still in power. As a bipartisan congressional commission debated over the outcome early in 1877, allies of the Republican Party candidate Rutherford Hayes met in secret with moderate southern Democrats in order to negotiate acceptance of Hayes’ election. The Democrats agreed not to block Hayes’ victory on the condition that Republicans withdraw all federal troops from the South, thus consolidating Democratic control over the region. As a result of the so-called Compromise of 1877 (or Compromise of 1876), Florida, Louisiana and South Carolina became Democratic once again, effectively marking the end of the Reconstruction era.

www.history.com...


NOW..What about any of the above is not factual?

a reply to: soberbacchus

Who is saying its not factual?

I am saying these numbers in no way prove your point that trump is the least popular president to come into office in 200 years.

You even cite that he lost by more popular votes than anyone in history ignoring increased population size.

So here is some facts for you.

Donald Trump received 62,979,636 votes. That is the third most amount in history.

en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore, Trump is the third most popular president coming into office in the history of the country.

That how you play the game, right?

a reply to: Grambler

When you consider it's 9 months since the election and people are still crying about an irrelevant nationwide vote that has nothing to do with elections, it's probably best to just laugh.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Who is saying its not factual?

I am saying these numbers in no way prove your point that trump is the least popular president to come into office in 200 years.

You even cite that he lost by more popular votes than anyone in history ignoring increased population size.

So here is some facts for you.

Donald Trump received 62,979,636 votes. That is the third most amount in history.

en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore, Trump is the third most popular president coming into office in the history of the country.

That how you play the game, right?

I just gave you numbers to process.

If you are (rightly) concerned about adjusting for population growth then you should look at percentages...which I also provided.

Glad we are on the same page and can move past the gross numbers, adjust for population and look at percentages of total voters..

Only two other Presidents in history, John Quincy Adams and Hayes lost the popular vote to their opponent by a greater percentage margin than Trump and still became President.

Do you dispute that is a factual statement?

Meanwhile a new story is out today about the NYT actually soliciting leaks as opposed to just receiving them...
truthfeed.com...

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Grambler

When you consider it's 9 months since the election and people are still crying about an irrelevant nationwide vote that has nothing to do with elections, it's probably best to just laugh.

Or you could tweet about imaginary illegal voters and how you actually won the popular vote in an "alternate" universe and then create a voting commission to "investigate".

Some people sure are still crying about it...

Others are just citing reality, history and math.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Who is saying its not factual?

You..

originally posted by: [post=22536345]Grambler

But you keep spinning.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Grambler

When you consider it's 9 months since the election and people are still crying about an irrelevant nationwide vote that has nothing to do with elections, it's probably best to just laugh.

Or you could tweet about imaginary illegal voters and how you actually won the popular vote in an "alternate" universe and then create a voting commission to "investigate".

Some people sure are still crying about it...

Others are just citing reality, history and math.

Here is a dose of reality for you.
The popular vote across the entire union is not part of the electoral process.
In 2016 the Presidential election was won by Donald J Trump, who was inaugurated as the 45th President on January 20th 2017.

Like I said to you before - take some time to learn how your elections work, then you might not be so hung up on irrelevant numbers.



Further reality - the thread is about a set of emails that show the FBI lied about not having any documentation on the Lynch/Clinton meeting and collaboration between the media and the Obama administration to downplay the story. It is not another excuse for you to cry about the election 9 months ago.

Spinning is taking facts and leaning them your way.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: soberbacchus

Who is saying its not factual?

I am saying these numbers in no way prove your point that trump is the least popular president to come into office in 200 years.

You even cite that he lost by more popular votes than anyone in history ignoring increased population size.

So here is some facts for you.

Donald Trump received 62,979,636 votes. That is the third most amount in history.

en.wikipedia.org...

Therefore, Trump is the third most popular president coming into office in the history of the country.

That how you play the game, right?

I just gave you numbers to process.

If you are (rightly) concerned about adjusting for population growth then you should look at percentages...which I also provided.

Glad we are on the same page and can move past the gross numbers, adjust for population and look at percentages of total voters..

Only two other Presidents in history, John Quincy Adams and Hayes lost the popular vote to their opponent by a greater percentage margin than Trump and still became President.

Do you dispute that is a factual statement?

Once more, I never disputed those facts.

I am saying they do not prove your claim that Trump is the least popular person to come in to office in the last 200 years.

You cited the number that Trump lost by more popular votes than any other President, and when I show how population growth makes that irrelevant, you say yep as if you weren't just trying to push that stat as a reason Trump is the most unpopular president to come into office in 200 years.

I don't even know why I am trying, becasue it is clear you will just keep spinning and changing which "facts" you want to talk about every time I prove that they don't prove your assertion that Trump is the mosst unpopular President to come into office in the last 200 years.

But I'll try again.

Trump came into office without about 46% of the popular vote.

Bill Clinton in 1992 came into the office with 43% of the popular vote.

Therefore, Bill Clinton was more unpopular coming into office than Trump.

Do you disagree with these facts?

What a fantastic tactic to completely derail a thread.

Good grief.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: Grambler

When you consider it's 9 months since the election and people are still crying about an irrelevant nationwide vote that has nothing to do with elections, it's probably best to just laugh.

Or you could tweet about imaginary illegal voters and how you actually won the popular vote in an "alternate" universe and then create a voting commission to "investigate".

Some people sure are still crying about it...

Others are just citing reality, history and math.

Here is a dose of reality for you.
The popular vote across the entire union ..

Nope...You said...

"it's 9 months since the election and people are still crying about an irrelevant nationwide vote that has nothing to do with elections"

That is a fully accurate description of Trump and his supporters..

I just provided math...not whining and lies...that is Trump and his supporters like yourself department.

Trump's twitter feed and his followers posts attest to the same.

originally posted by: Grambler


Bill Clinton in 1992 came into the office with 43% of the popular vote.

Therefore, Bill Clinton was more unpopular coming into office than Trump.

Do you disagree with these facts?

1992
Bill Clinton received 43% of the popular vote
George Bush received 37%
Ross Perot Received 19%

He won the popular vote.
Trump did not.
Pres. Clinton was the most popular President in that contest.

2016
HRC received 48% of the popular vote
Trump received 46% of the popular vote
Independents received 6% of the popular vote

AGAIN...the MARGIN of LOSS in percentage by which Trump lost (2.10%) and still became President..

Is the 3rd greatest margin in history behind Hayes and JQA (almost 200 hundred years ago)...and Hayes was given the presidency in the compromise of 1877.

What you are trying to do is pretend Ross Perot did not exist.