Millions Paying 10k Plus inHealth Care Premiums and Remain Afraid

a reply to: seasonal

Perhaps, then let it fail. Something innovative will take its place, that's how this works.

Government doesn't have the answers. It can't be covered with partisan stances.

a reply to: JinMI

Some how other countries have figured this out. And the solution seems to be omitting the for profits or limiting profits.

But we Americans must reinvent the wheel.

We could invest a whole lot of worry and thought into creating an affordable healthcare system for nothing.
Obamacare is too big to fail there are probably a lot of politicians thinking the government will just float trillions worth of bonds to pay for it all then default on them like Japan will likely have to do with their national debt.
The bonds in Japan are held by their own government so maybe that makes the default harmless and the health care "free"?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: carewemust

I can't see this being solved in washington by the repubs (or dems).

It will be solved when the American public flip the system the bird and not pay the insurance premiums anymore. It would collapse the system in 2 months.

Here's the problem with that strategy for people with assets and/or regular income...

""What happens when a large medical bill can’t be paid?  Usually the outcome is a lawsuit filed by the hospital or collection agency with a judgment and a lien filed against the patient’s home and accounts. In most states, a percentage of the debtor’s employment earnings can be garnished.

Generally, before this point is reached, the patient files a personal bankruptcy to stop the wage garnishment and wipe out the medical bills and other accumulated debts. But that requires that he give up all of his assets including savings accounts, real estate and equity in his home.  These assets, except those that are specifically exempt, are turned over to the Court and divided among the creditors.""

Source: www.rjmintz.com...

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: seasonal

Perhaps, then let it fail. Something innovative will take its place, that's how this works.

Government doesn't have the answers. It can't be covered with partisan stances.

But Government is about all that's left for 11,000 children in Iowa who will lose their private insurance on 1.1.2018, due to Blue Cross leaving, and the remaining insurer, Medica, only operating in a few Iowa counties.

The state legislature is working on allowing these 11,000 children to be put on Medicaid..even though their parent(s) make too much money.

www.radioiowa.com...

To make matters worse, that remaining insurer, Medica, said this week that they're contemplating pulling out of Iowa as well, on 12.31.2017.

a reply to: carewemust

“They shouldn’t have to worry about wrapping their kid in a bubble wrap for 2018 because they can’t get health insurance and they can’t afford to have their kid break an arm on the playground,” Petersen said during a news conference at the statehouse. “It’s just simply wrong. We need answers.”

I'm insured and have been for quite a number of years now. I can't afford it either.

My question is this. Are they not insuring because they will lose money or because they will not meet or exceed their current market goals?

a reply to: Logarock

Im paying 13k for my part on family insurance...outa pocket...my job pays near the same then they tax me on 10k that work offers to keep an expert AND my detuctibles are up 300%

Sure go aca...bunch of dribble

a reply to: JinMI

Yep. Let it fail if we want progress!

Capitalism only works if the market/consumers drive it, not the government.

We sign the paychecks. Giving up any of that purchasing power to a bunch of beholden government workers is so unwise. They have no fiduciary liability to us...it's just a free for all for them and the healthcare lobbyists that court them.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

It's working out so well for schools and infrastructure! Banks and housing too. Progress! .....?

It's like paying a mortage on a house that you can't live in, so other people can live in it for free.

a reply to: Logarock

You would be amazed (or not) at the difference between paying cash for medical services and using medical insurance. I went for about a month and a half without insurance and had to go to a doctor appointment which cost me $60 cash. A few months later I had another appointment when I had insurance and just my co-pay was $117 with the total bill before co-pay being $350. The reason insurance is so expensive is because doctors and hospitals jack up the prices for the insurance companies. I understand somewhat why hospitals do it (to compensate for those who do not pay their bills) but considering a doctor in his office will not see you at all unless you pay it makes absolutely no sense that they should be able to charge $350 for a big whopping 10 minutes of their time.

The free market is not the answer. The free market cares only about profit -- it doesn't care one iota about whether people who can't afford to help them generate a profit are covered.

originally posted by: XanderGray
The free market is not the answer. The free market cares only about profit -- it doesn't care one iota about whether people who can't afford to help them generate a profit are covered.

But that is where you are incorrect. If no one can afford the product, the price drops to what can be afforded, so the service provider (free market) can still make costs, if not a profit. Or risk going out of business.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Logarock

The goal should be access to affordable healthcare for all. We shouldn't be pitting the middle-class against the poor but isn't that always the case?

What you seem to be missing is that health insurance premiums have been increasing since way before Obama was even elected.

"Obamacare" wasn't a solution in search of a problem.

Let's be honest. Obamacare was the biggest step the insurance lobby would allow toward the sort of universal healthcare system that we should have. It was never meant to be more than a step. Fix it or replace it with something better. Returning to the previous status quo is not a viable option and not just because millions will lose healthcare — because if you follow that readily apparent trend line, premiums wouldn't be any better.

I would also like to mention that the talk of not paying out the subsidies and the uncertainty it's wrought have actually contributed significantly to worsening the problem, prompting insurers to further raise premiums and pull out of additional markets.

Anyway, it's not one or the other. Just like the rest of the First World, we don't have to choose between healthcare for the middle and the bottom.

So finally, after years of denial, somebody admits this crap law was crap and just intended to make things horrible to get something better.

We could have avoided screwing the working poor by putting controls on insurance companies. Instead the people in power caved to the massive insurance lobby wallet, even bigger than big oil, and gave the citizens a middle finger.

The problem is technology, it is causing a lot of increased costs in the medical industries. Some technology is good, but some is way off. The colonoscopy is being used way too much, if there are no symptoms then why do they do them. Those can run between two and six grand, plus extra if they remove and test polyps. I know two people who had two of them and they found nothing, they also had no symptoms at all. Some of these expensive tests are being promoted by doctors or hospitals when there is no risk or symptoms.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: Logarock

You would be amazed (or not) at the difference between paying cash for medical services and using medical insurance. I went for about a month and a half without insurance and had to go to a doctor appointment which cost me $60 cash. A few months later I had another appointment when I had insurance and just my co-pay was $117 with the total bill before co-pay being $350. The reason insurance is so expensive is because doctors and hospitals jack up the prices for the insurance companies. I understand somewhat why hospitals do it (to compensate for those who do not pay their bills) but considering a doctor in his office will not see you at all unless you pay it makes absolutely no sense that they should be able to charge $350 for a big whopping 10 minutes of their time.

Actually, under obamacare, doctors and hospitals HAVE to charge what the government dictates, or else they get zero reimbursement.

a reply to: carewemust

The only way this works is to have no insurance and let the free market take over. This would lead to monopolies and collusion.

Or a single payer system where tax payers pay another tax, but are covered. Like in Australia, Canada, England, Singapore........

There is no easy answer, the system was already failing before the ACA, but it is in it's final profitable death throes. I fear we will have to see a crash before anything is fixed.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

Could'nt agree more.

Anyone who thinks this is hospitals or insurance companies want this system to change is not paying attention. They are bringing in literal dump trucks of money.

Of course the congressmen are getting campaign donations, coke, whores and cushy jobs after they "serve" the community on boards of these huge corps that are of course people.

It's a sick world we live in when this has been solved in other countries.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: carewemust

The only way this works is to have no insurance and let the free market take over. This would lead to monopolies and collusion.

Or a single payer system where tax payers pay another tax, but are covered. Like in Australia, Canada, England, Singapore........

There is no easy answer, the system was already failing before the ACA, but it is in it's final profitable death throes. I fear we will have to see a crash before anything is fixed.

Unlike a financial crash, where only assets are lost, an ObamaCare crash will bring death, and a lot of suffering.

Iowa is attempting to avoid this human catastrophe for 2018, because their insurance system is scheduled to collapse at the end of this year. Out of desperation, state lawmakers are trying to save the children. Adults will be out in the cold.

Nope.. a health crash can't be allowed anywhere in this country, Seasonal. Make America Great Again, won't mean a thing.