Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

a reply to: dfnj2015

So, for 400 years the Romans persecuted a religion that they created for the purpose of suppressing an ethnic minority religion that they actually approved of?

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: dfnj2015

So, for 400 years the Romans persecuted a religion that they created for the purpose of suppressing an ethnic minority religion that they actually approved of?

Anything but the truth.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: dfnj2015

I've never heard that all of Christianity was created by the Romans..but there is ALOT. Of evidence the book of Paul was...

All the "pay your taxes " and "serve your masters" stuff was from Paul..

A guy who never even met Jesus, but made it into the Bible because he had visions..

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" - Jesus said that, not Paul.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

Great thread! Looks like I'm a few years late to the party.

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: dfnj2015

"But this god they believe in doesn’t actually exist like they think, what they are doing is (for most it is subconscious) agreeing collectively to a set of rules and giving away their personal authority to the state which acts as an arbitrager."

Yeah the 'state' sure loved Jesus......

Christians are not taught that war is okay, or that we should support it. Have you even read a Bible, even once?

What are you talking about? It's right in front of your face! The Bible's words not mine, "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: dfnj2015

So, for 400 years the Romans persecuted a religion that they created for the purpose of suppressing an ethnic minority religion that they actually approved of?

What better way to get people to follow it than to say not to.

Say to a lot of kids "don't take a cookie from that jar" and they will.

Say to a lot of people "don't do what this book/person says and does" and (as evidence shows today) a lot of people will.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: dfnj2015

"But this god they believe in doesn’t actually exist like they think, what they are doing is (for most it is subconscious) agreeing collectively to a set of rules and giving away their personal authority to the state which acts as an arbitrager."

Yeah the 'state' sure loved Jesus......

Christians are not taught that war is okay, or that we should support it. Have you even read a Bible, even once?

What are you talking about? It's right in front of your face! The Bible's words not mine, "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God."

Many have not enough imagination you could say, to actually read what this is claiming, and it very much seems true.

a reply to: JoshuaCox


SImon Magus was another "christ" - vying for prominence - unless he was Jesus and later sanitized?


en.wikipedia.org...

In apocryphal works including the Acts of Peter, Pseudo-Clementines, and the Epistle of the Apostles, Simon also appears as a formidable sorcerer with the ability to levitate and fly at will.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
Ever heard the "theory" that what made Jesus story unique:

" A guy running around preforming miracles for free"

Was not the miracles part .. it was the free part...

You don't have to be anti-Semitic. A Jewish doctor helping people for free is not a miracle.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

The purpose of Christianity was to convert the Jews to a new religion one that would bring them under the wings of Roman rule willingly.

Some theories say it's the other way around.

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: dfnj2015

So, for 400 years the Romans persecuted a religion that they created for the purpose of suppressing an ethnic minority religion that they actually approved of?

No. Here's the text from the book describing it:

The discovery of the Flavian invention of Christianity creates a
new understanding of the entire first century C.E. Such a revelation
is disorienting, and the reader will find the following points useful
in understanding the new history that this work presents.
• Christianity did not originate among the lower classes in Judea.
It was a creation of a Roman imperial family, the Flavians.
• The Gospels were not written by the followers of a Jewish
Messiah but by the intellectual circle surrounding the three
Flavian emperors: Vespasian and his two sons, Titus and
Domitian.
• The Gospels were written following the 66-73 C.E. war
between the Romans and the Jews, and many of the events of
Jesus' ministry are satirical depictions of events from that war.
• The purpose of Christianity was supersession. It was designed
to replace the nationalistic and militaristic messianic movement
in Judea with a religion that was pacifistic and would
accept Roman rule.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: dfnj2015

The author claims Christianity was fabricated from previous religions.

Oh goody goody an author that prescribes to a thankless and completely
selfish way of life. Hooray!

Scholars!

you say that as though religion has never been used as a front for profit. i mean, really...

but to be fair i was really hoping there would be more than a few bible verses uses as supporting documentation for what the op describes. i have seen this theory thrown around a number of times and would be interested to see some real substance backing it up. extraordinary claims and all that jazz...i believe this qualifies. then again, what is the likelihood that such an influential machine as the roman empire would be so clumsy as to not cover their tracks? there was no system in place to protect whistleblowers. if anything being a whistleblower was tantamount to treason and it was simpler to make the most of the deception. there is no way to prove conclusively that such a thing took place unless someone at the very top kept their own records and anyone in possession of such an artifact would be playing a very deadly game indeed. world peace would be at stake, to say the least. i read a novel a while ago about a similar event where new piece of scripture from muhammad was uncovered and by process of abrogation, would have turned islam on its head. a lot of people died trying to expose it, bury it, sell it, etc. yet another example of religion and business being two sides of the same coin. being rich is more rewarding than being good. hard to argue with that logic.

a reply to: TzarChasm

you say that as though religion has never been used as a front for profit.

Whether that's how I said it, or just how you took it Chas. I'm hopeful you
know I would never make such a claim.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: dfnj2015

So, for 400 years the Romans persecuted a religion that they created for the purpose of suppressing an ethnic minority religion that they actually approved of?

What better way to get people to follow it than to say not to.

Say to a lot of kids "don't take a cookie from that jar" and they will.

Say to a lot of people "don't do what this book/person says and does" and (as evidence shows today) a lot of people will.

So, Trump is actually promoting ISIS by pretending to oppose them?



The Jewish faith was granted legal acceptance in 45 BC by Julius Caesar and this was later ratified by the Roman senate in 40 BC (under the reign of Augustus Caesar) when Herod the Great was designated "King of the Jews", a puppet ruler on behalf of Rome, by that senate.

The Jews did attempt to throw off Roman rule (after the birth of Christianity), but the Roman response to that rebellion was to raze Jerusalem to the ground ("so that not one stone, remained upon another"). The result was that the Jewish people were driven out of Jerusalem and the regions ruled by Rome (the beginning of the Diaspora). There was no further Jewish opposition after 70 AD, their rout was complete.

The Romans had no reason or motivation to create a 'new' religion because they never lost their total control of the region during the first century (when Christianity was birthed) nor was it their modus operandi to create a new religion anywhere else throughout the conquered Roman world.

Considering historical facts, it is absurd to suggest that Rome created Christianity.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: dfnj2015

So, for 400 years the Romans persecuted a religion that they created for the purpose of suppressing an ethnic minority religion that they actually approved of?

No. Here's the text from the book describing it:

The discovery of the Flavian invention of Christianity creates a
new understanding of the entire first century C.E. Such a revelation
is disorienting, and the reader will find the following points useful
in understanding the new history that this work presents.
• Christianity did not originate among the lower classes in Judea.
It was a creation of a Roman imperial family, the Flavians.
• The Gospels were not written by the followers of a Jewish
Messiah but by the intellectual circle surrounding the three
Flavian emperors: Vespasian and his two sons, Titus and
Domitian.
• The Gospels were written following the 66-73 C.E. war
between the Romans and the Jews, and many of the events of
Jesus' ministry are satirical depictions of events from that war.
• The purpose of Christianity was supersession. It was designed
to replace the nationalistic and militaristic messianic movement
in Judea with a religion that was pacifistic and would
accept Roman rule.

Post the 69-73 CE war, there was no Jewish opposition left.

Masada, the last stronghold of the Jewish rebellion, was overrun and all the remaining rebels suicided (that is why the Monty Python Life of Brian's "Jewish suicide squad" is so funny).

Read some history.

All the verses cited by op are the writings of Paul, a man whom Jesus never met during his life on earth

How about lookin at things in proper context. I dunno just an idea

Still beats the one made up by a psychotic pedophile

I learned this early in life and its also why I never took the Bar examine.
The gun runners in Zimbabwe Rhodesia were far more trustworthy.

This is from the attached thread........................

He discovered another thing. That he could vastly multiply his own forces by setting competing tribes and kings against one another. Arming them with information and intelligence, weapons and gold, and exploiting their rivalries, would save him men and time, and in essence so weaken the victor in the process; they were then much easier pickings to conquer then later.
Caesar realized that the world could be conquered through simple math, dividing people by exploiting their differences, priming them to fight one another over their differences, and then profiting off of that fight, and then seizing victory later over the weakened victors.
Rome would learn to use nationalistic, ethnic and even religious differences, to prompt people into destroying and killing each other for it! Caesar realized that deploying skilled agent provocateurs to exploit these differences, prime them and capitalize on them would give Rome great advantage.
These agents of course would have to work with a certain degree of secrecy; after all they would be rejected if they out and out told the people they were exploiting their plans. This would lead to the birth of Intelligence Agents and Spies, and Secret Societies.

Buck

originally posted by: flatbush71
I learned this early in life and its also why I never took the Bar examine.
The gun runners in Zimbabwe Rhodesia were far more trustworthy.

This is from the attached thread........................

He discovered another thing. That he could vastly multiply his own forces by setting competing tribes and kings against one another. Arming them with information and intelligence, weapons and gold, and exploiting their rivalries, would save him men and time, and in essence so weaken the victor in the process; they were then much easier pickings to conquer then later.
Caesar realized that the world could be conquered through simple math, dividing people by exploiting their differences, priming them to fight one another over their differences, and then profiting off of that fight, and then seizing victory later over the weakened victors.
Rome would learn to use nationalistic, ethnic and even religious differences, to prompt people into destroying and killing each other for it! Caesar realized that deploying skilled agent provocateurs to exploit these differences, prime them and capitalize on them would give Rome great advantage.
These agents of course would have to work with a certain degree of secrecy; after all they would be rejected if they out and out told the people they were exploiting their plans. This would lead to the birth of Intelligence Agents and Spies, and Secret Societies.

Buck

Except Rome ruled by millitary power, not by Game of Thrones.

originally posted by: dfnj2015The author claims Christianity was fabricated from previous religions

Well, lets see here. Where do I begin with this.

1. In 2006 I contemplated abandoning my religion. Before I could do that a movie came out about my former career as a rescue swimmer in the Coast Guard. In part it was filmed at my previous Air Station, Elizabeth City, NC. Strange filming location versus Air Station Los Angeles that would be a lot closer to filming studios.

In the movie trailer, the narrator says "This fall His toughest battle will be saving one of His own".

In the bedroom scene, Jake with his girlfriend displays a tattoo on his back. The tattoo is the number 2. Jake's instructor at some point in the movie tells Jake that he has a gift. "Save the ones you can, the rest you have to let go".

2. A couple of weeks before the meteor hit Chelyabinsk, someone on this forum asked me to speculate what the image of the beast might be and I speculated that it was illegal content on the internet depicting minors being abused by adults, and that the consumption of this material by a sociopath might lead someone like Jerry Sandusky over the edge.

The meteor destroyed thousands of windows and gave people second degree burns on the ground as it burned 10 to 30 times brighter than the sun.

3. In 2013, I saw a story about a Texas grandmother who was upset that a 14 who sexually violated her 4 year old twice on campus, caught on video, and they let the predator back in school. On another forum in my irritation that Texas state government was not taking appropriate action I said flippantly "Ebola, it's coming". And two weeks later it landed in the very state that failed to protect this child. A man on a airplane landed in Texas with ebola, and there was a minor panic before the virus was contained.