Caesar's Messiah: The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus

Microsoft's operating system is called Windows. Thousands of windows were destroyed. They were replacing windows for weeks.

The meteor created a flash 30 times brighter than the sun.

Flash drive.

It left a cloud in the sky.

Cloud files.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I found this fascinating book on the Christian religion was created by a particular Roman family in response to Judean uprisings and the hope to get the people to willingly submit to Roman authority.

According to the author, the Roman Flavian family invented Christianity as a way to control the masses. After putting down the Judean uprisings, the Romans looked for a cheaper way to control the masses by replacing the old religion with a new religion.

The author claims Christianity was fabricated from previous religions. A composite of all the previous sun and salvation gods. The religion was engineered to get the minds of the conquered people to submit to Roman authority by creating a religious authority. The purpose of Christianity was to convert the Jews to a new religion one that would bring them under the wings of Roman rule willingly.

Philippians 2:10 (New International Version)
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth

Romans 14:11 (New International Version)
It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'”

The religion is designed so people with accept the authority of the government without question. This is why Christians do not protest all the killing that occurs in war. Because criticizing the killing done by the state would be the same thing as criticizing God even though it is supposedly immoral to kill other people.

"But this god they believe in doesn’t actually exist like they think, what they are doing is (for most it is subconscious) agreeing collectively to a set of rules and giving away their personal authority to the state which acts as an arbitrager."

Online Version of the Book

You put forth a nicely researched posting, but I have to disagree with the book you read. If the Romans created Christianity to "control the masses"...then why did Jesus specifically go into the temples of worship and turn over the tables in anger? Jesus got angry and stated that they were not to conduct business in a house of worship, which was the custom of the day. I believe that if they really did create a religion/religious figure...then they would at least be steering the people towards their way of doing things.

example 1. John 2:11–12
example 2. Matthew 21:12

a reply to: chr0naut

Just because it seems absurd to you, doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

Loads of people do things because they're told not to. Why would religion be any different, especially if it fits into what you already believe?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: chr0naut

Just because it seems absurd to you, doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

Loads of people do things because they're told not to. Why would religion be any different, especially if it fits into what you already believe?

Loads of people do all sorts of things. So what?

What the book proposes isn't possible because it is un-historical.

History (and not just Roman or Christian history) does not support it.

It never happened.

a reply to: chr0naut

So you're saying that because it's not written down, it didn't happen?

Record nothing so it can't be proven. Pretend to hate those that you're actually manipulating to give them a sense of "if they hate it, it must be something good".

Looks like a great plan, which obviously worked.

originally posted by: c2oden

originally posted by: mymymy
Doesn't matter what you say, all of the "Christians" will deny, deny, deny. I have met a lot, and I mean A LOT of self proclaimed "Christians", but I have never met an actual one.

Look at this site for a prime example, so many people claiming to be "Christian", then turn around and advocate for war, or letting poor people die because they simply cannot afford food or health coverage.

To be honest, "Christians" are a truly disgusting breed of human beings

Anyone who thinks someone is a "truly disgusting breed of human being" based only on their religious beliefs is disgusting.

I believe that was based on actions that were the exact opposite of proclaimed religious belief....basically hypocrites.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: chr0naut

So you're saying that because it's not written down, it didn't happen?

Record nothing so it can't be proven. Pretend to hate those that you're actually manipulating to give them a sense of "if they hate it, it must be something good".

Looks like a great plan, which obviously worked.

I'm saying that because what was written down (history) was so complete, from so many alternate sources (many who were antagonistic to Christianity or to Rome), with such an unbroken record (no gaps), there was no possibility that the book's fiction could have occurred.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: dfnj2015

I've never heard that all of Christianity was created by the Romans..but there is ALOT. Of evidence the book of Paul was...

All the "pay your taxes " and "serve your masters" stuff was from Paul..

A guy who never even met Jesus, but made it into the Bible because he had visions..

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" - Jesus said that, not Paul.

Wasn't that Paul's quote of what Jesus said??

I'm asking not being sarcastic?


Yup it was mark. Fair enough

a reply to: chr0naut

All the stuff I have seen on the subject has. Claimed the romans did not create Christianity. They just made changes in the period preceding it becoming romes official religion.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Thank you for an interesting thread.

You are correct.

I used to call myself a Christian many years ago, however my partner was Jewish and he didn't recognize Christ.

My partner told me that Christ was a martyr. So I spent two years researching Christianity and got a rude awaking.

My research lead me to the Roman empire and the Egyptian religion, I learned that Christianity was the same as the Egyptian religion only thing was they changed the names of the Gods.

You can imagine how disappointed I was.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: dfnj2015

I've never heard that all of Christianity was created by the Romans..but there is ALOT. Of evidence the book of Paul was...

All the "pay your taxes " and "serve your masters" stuff was from Paul..

A guy who never even met Jesus, but made it into the Bible because he had visions..

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" - Jesus said that, not Paul.

Wasn't that Paul's quote of what Jesus said??

I'm asking not being sarcastic?

Yup it was mark. Fair enough

All three synoptic gospels mention it: Matthew 22:15-22, Mark 12:13-17 and Luke 20:20-26.

I don't think Paul even quoted it.

Yep, on page one, you knocked it outta the park...

You were the only one to stand

Page one was lined up with yea, that's the ticket....

Ya have to read it to get the old Coventry spoke much of a messiah that would die on a cross and not have broken bones

Then, he would be pierced and lots thrown for His clothes.....morea reply to: infolurker

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: chr0naut

All the stuff I have seen on the subject has. Claimed the romans did not create Christianity. They just made changes in the period preceding it becoming romes official religion.

As Christianity became the official religion of Imperial Rome 380 years after Christ was born (with Emperor Theodosius' 'Edict of Thessalonica'), Christianity was already very established.and the 'Flavians", accredited in the book, were long dead and gone by hundreds of years.

a reply to: chr0naut

What's been recorded in history has been filtered through the view of royalty & authority; each who long ago discovered and mastered the mechanisms of manipulation. Source any historical event that's from the perspective of the common man -- it's not so easy. How much of recorded history discusses everyday people? It's all about the powers of the day (TPOTD). There's a reason TPOTD held close the ability to read & write for most of history.

I once heard a story about college football transitioning from radio to television. The 'new to TV' play by play broadcaster was recalling his first TV broadcast & commented that he was nervous because folks at home could now see if he made mistake. He said that while on the radio he could say player X pitched the ball to player Y if he made a mistake in crediting a big play such as a TD. He said he did this all the time but now he wouldn't be able to.

a reply to: Joneselius

But, Christians don't follow Jesus. They follow Paul (thinking they are following Jesus).
Paul is the promoter of bowing down to government authorities. Going so far as to say if you rebel against them, you are rebelling against God.
Jesus only said to "render too Ceaser what is Ceaser's...and to God what is God's". Jesus never said all rulers were put there by God.
He actually said this world belongs to Satan.
Do you think God put Hitler in power? Do you actually think God expected people to submit to Hitler?
If you believe Romans 13....then that would be the case.
Paul is a wolf in sheep's clothing whom Jesus warned about. He's also full of #e.

originally posted by: CheckPointCharlie
a reply to: chr0naut

What's been recorded in history has been filtered through the view of royalty & authority; each who long ago discovered and mastered the mechanisms of manipulation. Source any historical event that's from the perspective of the common man -- it's not so easy. How much of recorded history discusses everyday people? It's all about the powers of the day (TPOTD). There's a reason TPOTD held close the ability to read & write for most of history.

I once heard a story about college football transitioning from radio to television. The 'new to TV' play by play broadcaster was recalling his first TV broadcast & commented that he was nervous because folks at home could now see if he made mistake. He said that while on the radio he could say player X pitched the ball to player Y if he made a mistake in crediting a big play such as a TD. He said he did this all the time but now he wouldn't be able to.

While there was not public education for the plebiscite in Rome, many could read and write. This is evidenced by letters, diaries, notes and lists which describe 1st Century Roman life. These letters were not written with any particular agenda but were written honestly, outlining the day to day life of the Romans. Historians, therefore, value such correspondence more than 'official histories'.

Some things are lost to history, it is true, but considering only one or two writers produce the 'official' histories and millions produce personal writings, we have an unarguable body of evidence. When 'official' history and personal testimony agree, they reinforce each other.

But the point is moot because Rome would not suppress a rebellion by creating a religion. It would be too slow in action, it would be contrary to existing Roman gods and religion, is unlikely to succeed and has a probability that it will entirely backfire and become yet another rallying point against Rome (as was the case with Christianity for nearly 400 years).

... and how, exactly, does another belief, in a tumult of conflicting beliefs, stop an ethnic rebellion? Do the rebels all suddenly convert, put down their weapons and just walk away? It didn't happen and wouldn't happen.

It is far more likely that Rome would employ its usual military tactic of 'decimation'. They would attack leaving only one tenth of the defeated force alive (they did take prisoners, they just executed most of them according to standard policy). The living remainder were then freed to pass on the message that, 'if you oppose the will of Rome, you will be all but wiped out' - you will be decimated. This is far more effective than creating another religion.

In fact the Romans did attempt to decimate the Jewish rebels. They were prevented from it at Masada (the last Jewish rebel strionghold) by the remaining rebels committing suicide. The rebels ensured that there was no-one left alive to spread the fear. None the less, the Romans ended the Jewish rebellion using military tactics, not some religious BS.

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: Joneselius

But, Christians don't follow Jesus. They follow Paul (thinking they are following Jesus).
Paul is the promoter of bowing down to government authorities. Going so far as to say if you rebel against them, you are rebelling against God.
Jesus only said to "render too Ceaser what is Ceaser's...and to God what is God's". Jesus never said all rulers were put there by God.
He actually said this world belongs to Satan.
Do you think God put Hitler in power? Do you actually think God expected people to submit to Hitler?
If you believe Romans 13....then that would be the case.
Paul is a wolf in sheep's clothing whom Jesus warned about. He's also full of #e.

Romans 13-1-7 is the ONLY time Paul suggested that we submit to governing authority.

That passage in Romans is expanding on the theme established by the Old Testament prophets Elisha, Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah & Daniel who said that Israel was to submit to Babylon because God had placed Israel into captivity as a punishment.

As previously noted, Jesus acknowledged the leadership of Rome and said that taxes should be paid. Peter also said that we should submit to governing authorities (1 Peter 2:13-17).

Paul only authored 35% of the New Testament.That means that the majority of the New Testament was written by others, such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, James & Jude.

These were all contemporaries of Paul and none of them opposed him (although there was some minor doctrinal debate between James, Peter and Paul, about inclusion of non-Jews, which was finally resolved by Peter having a vision from God in favour of inclusion of gentiles).

By far, most Christian doctrine is based upon the four Gospels, not the writings of Paul.

Would Hitler have been in power if God had dis-allowed him? Remember that Hitler was elected. It was the democratic will of the people of Germany that Hitler be in power (Hitler promised to 'make Germany great again', after the reparations and deprivations due to Germany loosing the First World War).

Jesus warned of false prophets who would appear like lambs but were actually ravening wolves. He was plainly talking about more than one false prophet. Are you suggesting that there were many 'Paul's, or could it be that what Jesus said there cannot be applied to Paul? Paul is not called a prophet anywhere in the Bible. Perhaps what Jesus said actually applies to all the 'prophets' (most of which described themselves as such) of the many cults that came after Jesus?

Paul is Paul, a first century Christian who (among 12 others) was a major evangelist in spreading the Gospel. The suggestion that Paul was a false prophet does not stand up to analysis.

History shows that opposition to Paul is a tactic used by many groups with an anti-Chritian agenda.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Jesus taught that one should pay taxes, what do your think he meant when he said,

Mt 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Mr 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Lu 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Even Jesus Paid taxes/tribute

Mt 17:24 ¶ And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Jesus also taught about servants serving their masters even if it is a parable, it does represent he does expect servants to do not just what is expected of them but even more

Luke 17:7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
Mt 25:14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You should learn your Bible before repeating what some others has said and you believe to be true. Paying Taxes and Serving your masters (a boss who pays you BTY) was in Jesus Teachings, to say it wasn't is to be dishonest if you have truly known the scriptures.

a reply to: chr0naut

That's funny. You do realize that Christians basically believe that whoever is in power is because "god" allows it all.
Oh, and I call BULLSITE Christians actually following Jesus.
Paul is the ultimate high jacker of Jesus's message.
Apologetic yourself all you want....Paul was a liar

originally posted by: dfnj2015
I found this fascinating book on the Christian religion was created by a particular Roman family in response to Judean uprisings and the hope to get the people to willingly submit to Roman authority.

According to the author, the Roman Flavian family invented Christianity as a way to control the masses. After putting down the Judean uprisings, the Romans looked for a cheaper way to control the masses by replacing the old religion with a new religion.

The author claims Christianity was fabricated from previous religions. A composite of all the previous sun and salvation gods. The religion was engineered to get the minds of the conquered people to submit to Roman authority by creating a religious authority. The purpose of Christianity was to convert the Jews to a new religion one that would bring them under the wings of Roman rule willingly.

For example, here are some passages from the Bible designed to get the Jews to submit to Roman authority:

Romans 13
Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Philippians 2:10 (New International Version)
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth

Romans 14:11 (New International Version)
It is written: “‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'”

The religion is designed so people with accept the authority of the government without question. This is why Christians do not protest all the killing that occurs in war. Because criticizing the killing done by the state would be the same thing as criticizing God even though it is supposedly immoral to kill other people.

"But this god they believe in doesn’t actually exist like they think, what they are doing is (for most it is subconscious) agreeing collectively to a set of rules and giving away their personal authority to the state which acts as an arbitrager."

Online Version of the Book

The reason there's so much conflict in what you read and actually "know" in your heart or gut....is because a pseudo (false) apostle is dictating to everyone the "new rules" within Christendom.
Christians will go to their last dying breath to even admit it, but Paul (Saul of Tarsus) was NOT..and I repeat NOT an apostle.
However, you are going to run into some serious "cognitive dissonance" on that issue.
Cause ya know....the "Holy Book" is infallible, inerrant, and the actual God speaking....no matter how many holes you find in it.
Can't be using logic or your brain (or truth when it presents itself), don't ya know! Better to just go on doctrine and blind faith.