What did Allah ever suffer. Was his prophet ever crucified, publicly shamed, or beaten?

My invisible man in the sky is cooler than your invisible man in the sky!

Ridiculous

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Allah and your god are the same god. So if your god suffered under the Romans then so did Allah.

a reply to: Tsubaki

Note what forum you are in.

Yours is a canned response that could be pasted into every thread in the forum. Kind of a derail of the OP's premise.

Suspend your disbelief for threads that arent questioning that, start your own to thread to debate the existence of gods.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

OPs point is that from Islam, while Jesus existed, he wasnt a part of the Godhead(avoiding thread drift...). While Christians believe God became man to experience what we do.

Jesus took on the sins of the world to suffer for us and with us. There is no attempt by God in the koran to resolve the impossible task of working your way into purity thus unlocking the "heaven achievement".

Unless he is on earth, there is no connection to actual suffering, personally for the God.

a reply to: watchitburn

Thats not contributing at all to OP's point or questions.

Is it really necessary to hit up all religious threads to just say its all ridiculous?

Ridicule doesn't win over anyone, and makes you look like youre trolling. No offense.

a reply to: Butterfinger

To me it is just a petty argument between religious denominations of Judaism since the gods are the same god.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

is alledged self harming actually" suffering " ?

a reply to: mikegrouchy

What does Allah know about suffering?

What does Yahweh know of suffering?

What does Jehovah know of suffering?

What do the Elohim know of suffering?

a reply to: mikegrouchy

the christians alledged "god " gets its primary experience of suffering from the cruelty it is alledged to have inflicted on others [ read the bible]

a reply to: mikegrouchy

I am not a proponent of Islam, I am simply here to answer the question of the OP.

While Muhammad was still preaching non-violence in Mecca before his decline into blood-thirst and totalitarianism in Medina,...

One day a number of Quraish gave the uterus of a sheep to their servants to throw at the blessed face and head of Muhammad, The Messenger of Allah (SWT). They obeyed their brutal master, thus making Muhammad, The Messenger of Allah (SWT) rather sad.

Another day they threw camel's guts on him while he was prostrating in prayer. Muhammad, The Messenger of Allah (SWT) remained in prostration, perhaps waiting for one of the Muslims to pass by and take the dirt off his back. His daughter Fatima al-Zahra (sa) was walking by when she saw him. With tears in her eyes, she removed the dirt from his back. He said to her, "Don't cry my daughter, the Almighty Allah (SWT) will honour His religion and grant your father victory."

• During the early beginnings of Islam when Muhammad was still preaching pacifism, many Muslims were physically attacked, tortured, and martyred.

• The Meccan pagans launched a 3 year economic and social boycott against the Muslims. Muhammad and his followers were driven out of the city and into a small valley. Here, they suffered extreme hardship, discomfort, isolation, and starvation.

• Muhammad suffered severe pain, fever, and weakness for several days before he finally died. It is believed that he may have been poisoned.

originally posted by: Syphone
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Mate..

Breitbart is far right wing propaganda troll.. err.. tool. Never believe what they say. I am sure you know it, just reminding you.

LIke MSNBC and CNN is for the left?

a reply to: mikegrouchy

Allah knows nothing of suffering, and thus knows nothing of mercy.

Wait, are you implying that God - the Almighty, omnipotent heavenly father - only knows of suffering and thus mercy because of Jesus, that he is NOT all knowing, and that he NOT all powerful?

So you may not be a Christian, but that is no reason to be blasphemous.

No, he IS all knowing - no matter if you see Him through the eyes of muslims, jews or christians. Of course he knows mercy!

originally posted by: mikegrouchy

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Technically, according to Islam, Allah is the same God as the God of Abraham, and therefore, the same God of the Old and New Testaments. He is the same God as the Jewish people and Christian people worship.

So, technically, the answer is "yes."

Now, I know that Christians don't consider Jesus a Prophet but a Third of the Godhead so it gets dicey when you dig into the Tri-Personage theology of Christianity versus the Islamic interpretation but again, if you ask a Muslim, their God and Christian's God and Jewish people's God are all One God.

Sort of like if you ask a Christian if their God is the same one as in the Old Testsment, they will say "yes."

If you ask a Jewish person if the Christian God is the same one as their God, you'd get a different answer.

^This. This is exactly what the Democrats in the Article are doing. Creating a false moral equivalency through a specially crafted narrative. Don't fall for it.

If they are the same, then what does Allah know about suffering?

Mike Grouchy

The only one's with a "specially crafted narrative" is your own source, for Goodness sake!!

Seriously, MikeG, they are the ones twisting everything around. I've studied world religions long before the current "theory" your sources are presenting about a "radical left interpretation" and it has ALWAYS been this way, since forever.

You may not LIKE what I'm saying, but it is the simple truth.

Here:

According to the Islamic statement of witness, or shahada, “There is no god but Allah”. Muslims believe he created the world in six days and sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, and lastly Muhammad, who called people to worship only him, rejecting idolatry and polytheism.

The word islam, which means submission, was not at first the name of a religion founded by Muhammad. It referred, rather, to the original religion of all mankind – and even of the universe itself which, like us, was created to serve Allah.

Earlier prophets and their followers were all Muslims (submitters to Allah), though Muslims do tend to conflate the general and specific meanings of the words Islam and Muslim.

Some prophets received scriptures from Allah, notably the Torah of Moses, the Psalms of David, and the Gospel of Jesus. Their messages and books, however, became corrupted or were lost.

Miraculously, the Qur’an (“recitation”) revealed to Muhammad – the very word of Allah – will not suffer this fate, so there is no need for further prophets or revelations.

Link - Who Is Allah? Understanding God in Islam

Also...

The most concise definition of God in Islam is given in the four verses of Surah Ikhlas which is Chapter 112 of the Qur’an:

"Say: He is Allah,
The One and Only.
"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.
"He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]

The word ‘Assamad’ is difficult to translate. It means ‘absolute existence’, which can be attributed only to Allah (swt), all other existence being temporal or conditional. It also means that Allah (swt) is not dependant on any person or thing, but all persons and things are dependant on Him.

Islam 101 - Concept of God in Islam

And...

Abrahamic religions, emphasizing and tracing their common origin to the tribal patriarch Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him, are one of the major divisions in comparative religion (along with Indian,[2] Iranian, and East Asian religions[2]). Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the largest Abrahamic religions in terms of numbers of adherents.[3][4][5]

The major Abrahamic religions in chronological order of founding are:

Judaism (seventh century BCE),[6]
Christianity (first century CE)
Islam (seventh century CE)

LINK - Abrahamic religions - Wiki

^^^ NOT saying I personally believe in this, by the way, I'm just presenting facts.


Jewish people don't see the "Christian Three-Part God" as being Yahweh / Jehovah. They respect Jesus as a human Rabbi, generally speaking, but they do not elevate him to the status of Godhood.

Christians see Jehovah and the Jewish tradition as being fulfilled within their own religion, Christianity. They think the Christian God is the same as Yahweh/Jehovah of the Talmud, and that the Jewish religion is fulfilled in their own. Since they feel that nothing can be higher than Christ, anything after him that is not their interpretation of God's Second Coming must be a false prophet. Thus, Christians do NOT believe that "Allah" and "Jehovah and Yahweh and the Tri-Part God of Christianity" are one and the same.

Muslims see the God of the Christians and the God of the Jewish people as being the same, one God of their own religion, and that their Prophet is the fulfillment and "final word" from God to all the world. They also see Jesus as a prophet or Messenger of God, and not as God Himself.

It is a matter of perspective. If you are ensconced in Christian views that claim the Three-Personed God, you will absolutely NOT agree with the Muslim view that they too follow the same God of Abraham. I get that. This is your position as a Christian. I would not expect anything less of you. However, in the world at large, it is important to understand how other people see things.

Does the Jewish viewpoint that Jesus isn't God make your concept that the Jewish Tradition is fulfilled in Christ any less true for you??

If you don't have "skin in the game" with a particular doctrine, then, technically, my first response to you in the post above is correct. All three religions have at their roots the Abrahamic Tradition.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Some may agree, but its not the point of OP's thread. Lets stay on topic

it seems to me that Allah, being all knowing & merciful... has a full knowledge of 'suffering'...

Allah never had to take on the physical body of a Man and die as a hated Blasphemer at the hands of His own chosen People
(well only the Tribe of Judah &/or the Priesthood Class)

the 'Suffering Messiah' was a prophetic eventuality since the creation of the 'world' (as opposed to creation-of-Planet
the reason for a 'suffering Messiah' has been a weird thing for me to grasp... 'to redeem sin' is the explanation

but i'm more in line with the 'suffering Messiah' to show the populations in all generations that Religious Leaders are conspirators/sleazy charlatans...and are capable of making any person a 'dead-man-walking' victim

originally posted by: windword

What does Yahweh know of suffering?

The same suffering a father feels when his child is dangerously disobedient.

originally posted by: DupontDeux
a reply to: mikegrouchy

Allah knows nothing of suffering, and thus knows nothing of mercy.

Wait, are you implying that God - the Almighty, omnipotent heavenly father - only knows of suffering and thus mercy because of Jesus, that he is NOT all knowing, NOT all powerful?

That is a pretty blasphemous thing to say.

No, he IS all knowing - no matter if you see Him through the eyes of muslims, jews or christians. Of course he knows mercy!

THIS^^^

Excellent response.

To Mike:
The Omniscient God would know ALL of creation, all human perspective and feeling, all suffering, and thus is the CREATOR of Compassion, the CREATOR of Mercy and the CREATOR of the conditions under which humans and all life suffer. To live is to suffer at some point. Islam has many Names of God, including Omniscient and Omnipotent, the All Merciful, the All Wise, the All Compassionate...

Don't sell Allah short, friend, by a narrow reading of Islam by those that seek to defame it!

originally posted by: mikegrouchy
What did Allah ever suffer.
Was his prophet ever crucified, publicly shamed, or beaten?
Allah knows nothing of suffering, and thus knows nothing of mercy.

This man converted away from Islam to Christianity.
For Muslims he has this message.

"Can a human being become God."
"Of course never. No human being can become God."
"But."
"I believed even as a muslim in an all mighty God."
"The Great God, that can do anything and everything."
"But can he, the Great God, the All Mighty God, become a man. Show himself in the body of a man?"
"Yes he can."

What did God ever suffer??

He didn't, because gods don't feel pain....


Also why would a prophet be required to suffer?!?!

If some one truely had the favor of god, wouldn't they be successful in their actions???


I mean just looking at it logically and comparing the 2 messiahs of each religion...

One was incredibly successful in life, uniting many different tribes under a single banner and was rarely beaten in battle. Had a massive following in his own time.

Vs

The other which was rejected by the religious scholars of his day. Only had a small group of followers. Died penniless , never having commanded men in battle..



I'm not sure jesus wins the credibility fight migo.

a reply to: mikegrouchy

You dumbas* Christians are really desperate.

HERE, listen to your masters:

a reply to: cooperton

Well, since Allah is the equivalent of Yahweh, then that is what Allah also knows of suffering.