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Incidentally, I'm a Christian who doesn't think the Old Testament God is the same God as the New Testament. Or, at the very least, he took a handful of divine chill pills.
originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: dogstar23
Incidentally, I'm a Christian who doesn't think the Old Testament God is the same God as the New Testament. Or, at the very least, he took a handful of divine chill pills.
LOL...
I assume you've never told a pastor this info... he'd start flickin holy water at ya
originally posted by: mikegrouchy
If they are the same, then what does Allah know about suffering?
Mike Grouchy
originally posted by: Sahabi
a reply to: mikegrouchy
I am not a proponent of Islam, I am simply here to answer the question of the OP.
While Muhammad was still preaching non-violence in Mecca before his decline into blood-thirst and totalitarianism in Medina,...
One day a number of Quraish gave the uterus of a sheep to their servants to throw at the blessed face and head of Muhammad, The Messenger of Allah (SWT). They obeyed their brutal master, thus making Muhammad, The Messenger of Allah (SWT) rather sad.
Another day they threw camel's guts on him while he was prostrating in prayer. Muhammad, The Messenger of Allah (SWT) remained in prostration, perhaps waiting for one of the Muslims to pass by and take the dirt off his back. His daughter Fatima al-Zahra (sa) was walking by when she saw him. With tears in her eyes, she removed the dirt from his back. He said to her, "Don't cry my daughter, the Almighty Allah (SWT) will honour His religion and grant your father victory."
• During the early beginnings of Islam when Muhammad was still preaching pacifism, many Muslims were physically attacked, tortured, and martyred.
• The Meccan pagans launched a 3 year economic and social boycott against the Muslims. Muhammad and his followers were driven out of the city and into a small valley. Here, they suffered extreme hardship, discomfort, isolation, and starvation.
• Muhammad suffered severe pain, fever, and weakness for several days before he finally died. It is believed that he may have been poisoned.
originally posted by: Syphone
If you know anything about Allah, you will also know it FREE you from the suffering.
originally posted by: mikegrouchy
What did Allah ever suffer. Was his prophet ever crucified, publicly shamed, or beaten?
originally posted by: mikegrouchy
What did Allah ever suffer.
Was his prophet ever crucified, publicly shamed, or beaten?
Allah knows nothing of suffering, and thus knows nothing of mercy.
This man converted away from Islam to Christianity.
For Muslims he has this message."Can a human being become God."
"Of course never. No human being can become God."
"But."
"I believed even as a muslim in an all mighty God."
"The Great God, that can do anything and everything."
"But can he, the Great God, the All Mighty God, become a man. Show himself in the body of a man?"
"Yes he can."
originally posted by: GodEmperor
Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are various amalgamations of zoroastrianism, egyptian mythology, and paganism. Zoroastrianism has two gods,
which in the Abrahamic religions tend to mix and match the qualities of the two gods into one, while at the same time differentiating the second god or evil one as a distinct being (shaitain, satan, samael). Also, there are texts that refer to differing egyptian deities, at times book of psalms give god qualities of peace and harmony, while other times blood and vengeance; depending on which pharaoh was in power and which god he embodied at the time.
So, everybody is right, except everybody is wrong, it just depends on which text you are referring to at the time of the argument.
I'll stick to the verses of god creating man in his image, meaning man is a reflection of god (good and evil, perfect and imperfect).
Shai-Hulud has spoken.
What did Allah ever suffer. Was his prophet ever crucified, publicly shamed, or beaten? Allah knows nothing of suffering, and thus knows nothing of mercy.
originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: mikegrouchy
What did Allah ever suffer. Was his prophet ever crucified, publicly shamed, or beaten? Allah knows nothing of suffering, and thus knows nothing of mercy.
I am a Christian, but I have to ask, are you implying that God lacked the knowledge of mercy before he became incarnate in Jesus? In order for this question to hold weight you would have to say yes, but generally speaking Christians don't believe that.
originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: mikegrouchy
1. Why is "suffering" a prerequisite for mercy? I think that's a flawed perspective. I can show forgiveness and/or mercy to a puppy for pooping on my shoe simply because I think it's cute, harmless, or had no foul intentions. Suffering has nothing to do with it. Besides, I can't speak for your religion, but in Islam, God is Omniscient and Omnipotent. The limitations & conditions you're placing on Him are laughably absurd to us.
2. Allah is merciful. In fact, one of His names translates into "The Merciful" (Al-Raheem/Al-Rahim). This is literally mentioned in the very first line of the Qur'an (and the 3rd line), which makes it glaringly obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about here (Surah 1:1, Pickthall translation). The Qur'an is also full of instances where He shows mercy and speaks of mercy, so you're simply wrong on this point. And even outside of the Qur'an, Allah has shown me far more mercy in life than I deserve, which further obliterates your "point".
3. The Prophet Jesus is one of the 4 most revered Prophets in Islam. We believe he was given the Holy Gospels & was allowed to perform many miracles in the name of God. Not only does the Qur'an speak very highly of him, but it even speaks incredibly highly of his mother Mariam. In fact, one of the 114 Surahs of the Qur'an is named after her (Surah 19 Al-Mariam). ETA: for the record, "Mary" is not her name. In Aramaic, the language of their region at the time, her name was "Mariam". And in Hebrew it's translated as "Miriam". Arabic is a Semitic language like Aramaic and Hebrew, hence her name being Mariam/Maryam.
The fact that you don't even know this shows your ignorance on the subject. And ironically, Muslims even greet each other the same way the Prophet Jesus greeted people in the Bible. "Assalamu alaikum" means "peace be with you/peace be unto you", which is the same thing the Prophet Jesus says in John 20-21 & Luke 24:36. LOL
originally posted by: savemebarry
originally posted by: Syphone
If you know anything about Allah, you will also know it FREE you from the suffering.
Bit like the wife who doesn't talk back to her husband and is therefore free from getting a slap.
Submission. That is not freedom from suffering, it is forced acceptance under penalty of suffering.
originally posted by: AboveBoard
originally posted by: mikegrouchy
originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: mikegrouchy
Technically, according to Islam, Allah is the same God as the God of Abraham, and therefore, the same God of the Old and New Testaments. He is the same God as the Jewish people and Christian people worship.
So, technically, the answer is "yes."
Now, I know that Christians don't consider Jesus a Prophet but a Third of the Godhead so it gets dicey when you dig into the Tri-Personage theology of Christianity versus the Islamic interpretation but again, if you ask a Muslim, their God and Christian's God and Jewish people's God are all One God.
Sort of like if you ask a Christian if their God is the same one as in the Old Testsment, they will say "yes."
If you ask a Jewish person if the Christian God is the same one as their God, you'd get a different answer.
^This. This is exactly what the Democrats in the Article are doing. Creating a false moral equivalency through a specially crafted narrative. Don't fall for it.
If they are the same, then what does Allah know about suffering?
Mike Grouchy
The only one's with a "specially crafted narrative" is your own source, for Goodness sake!!
Seriously, MikeG, they are the ones twisting everything around. I've studied world religions long before the current "theory" your sources are presenting about a "radical left interpretation" and it has ALWAYS been this way, since forever.
You may not LIKE what I'm saying, but it is the simple truth.
Here:Link - Who Is Allah? Understanding God in Islam
According to the Islamic statement of witness, or shahada, “There is no god but Allah”. Muslims believe he created the world in six days and sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, and lastly Muhammad, who called people to worship only him, rejecting idolatry and polytheism.
The word islam, which means submission, was not at first the name of a religion founded by Muhammad. It referred, rather, to the original religion of all mankind – and even of the universe itself which, like us, was created to serve Allah.
Earlier prophets and their followers were all Muslims (submitters to Allah), though Muslims do tend to conflate the general and specific meanings of the words Islam and Muslim.
Some prophets received scriptures from Allah, notably the Torah of Moses, the Psalms of David, and the Gospel of Jesus. Their messages and books, however, became corrupted or were lost.
Miraculously, the Qur’an (“recitation”) revealed to Muhammad – the very word of Allah – will not suffer this fate, so there is no need for further prophets or revelations.
Also...
Islam 101 - Concept of God in Islam
The most concise definition of God in Islam is given in the four verses of Surah Ikhlas which is Chapter 112 of the Qur’an:
"Say: He is Allah,
The One and Only.
"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.
"He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]
The word ‘Assamad’ is difficult to translate. It means ‘absolute existence’, which can be attributed only to Allah (swt), all other existence being temporal or conditional. It also means that Allah (swt) is not dependant on any person or thing, but all persons and things are dependant on Him.
And...
LINK - Abrahamic religions - Wiki
Abrahamic religions, emphasizing and tracing their common origin to the tribal patriarch Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him, are one of the major divisions in comparative religion (along with Indian,[2] Iranian, and East Asian religions[2]). Judaism, Christianity and Islam are the largest Abrahamic religions in terms of numbers of adherents.[3][4][5]
The major Abrahamic religions in chronological order of founding are:
Judaism (seventh century BCE),[6]
Christianity (first century CE)
Islam (seventh century CE)
^^^ NOT saying I personally believe in this, by the way, I'm just presenting facts.
Jewish people don't see the "Christian Three-Part God" as being Yahweh / Jehovah. They respect Jesus as a human Rabbi, generally speaking, but they do not elevate him to the status of Godhood.
Christians see Jehovah and the Jewish tradition as being fulfilled within their own religion, Christianity. They think the Christian God is the same as Yahweh/Jehovah of the Talmud, and that the Jewish religion is fulfilled in their own. Since they feel that nothing can be higher than Christ, anything after him that is not their interpretation of God's Second Coming must be a false prophet. Thus, Christians do NOT believe that "Allah" and "Jehovah and Yahweh and the Tri-Part God of Christianity" are one and the same.
Muslims see the God of the Christians and the God of the Jewish people as being the same, one God of their own religion, and that their Prophet is the fulfillment and "final word" from God to all the world. They also see Jesus as a prophet or Messenger of God, and not as God Himself.
It is a matter of perspective. If you are ensconced in Christian views that claim the Three-Personed God, you will absolutely NOT agree with the Muslim view that they too follow the same God of Abraham. I get that. This is your position as a Christian. I would not expect anything less of you. However, in the world at large, it is important to understand how other people see things.
Does the Jewish viewpoint that Jesus isn't God make your concept that the Jewish Tradition is fulfilled in Christ any less true for you??
If you don't have "skin in the game" with a particular doctrine, then, technically, my first response to you in the post above is correct. All three religions have at their roots the Abrahamic Tradition.
Actually, as is obvious, the OP is not aware that 3 religions who revere Abraham as their patriarch, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, share the same basic beliefs and the EXACT same God.
How someone could not know that the Abrahamic religions worshipping the same God is a fact recognized by all honest theologians and scholars is beyond me.
1.5 billion Abrahamic revering, Jesus loving Muslims might take issue with being told that their God is not the same as Christians or Jews.
a Pew Research Center survey of Muslims in 39 countries asked Muslims whether they want sharia law, a legal code based on the Quran and other Islamic scripture, to be the official law of the land in their country.
originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: mikegrouchy
1. Why is "suffering" a prerequisite for mercy? I think that's a flawed perspective. I can show forgiveness and/or mercy to a puppy for pooping on my shoe simply because I think it's cute, harmless, or had no foul intentions. Suffering has nothing to do with it. Besides, I can't speak for your religion, but in Islam, God is Omniscient and Omnipotent. The limitations & conditions you're placing on Him are laughably absurd to us.
2. Allah is merciful. In fact, one of His names translates into "The Merciful" (Al-Raheem/Al-Rahim). This is literally mentioned in the very first line of the Qur'an (and the 3rd line), which makes it glaringly obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about here (Surah 1:1, Pickthall translation). The Qur'an is also full of instances where He shows mercy and speaks of mercy, so you're simply wrong on this point. And even outside of the Qur'an, Allah has shown me far more mercy in life than I deserve, which further obliterates your "point".
3. The Prophet Jesus is one of the 4 most revered Prophets in Islam. We believe he was given the Holy Gospels & was allowed to perform many miracles in the name of God. Not only does the Qur'an speak very highly of him, but it even speaks incredibly highly of his mother Mariam. In fact, one of the 114 Surahs of the Qur'an is named after her (Surah 19 Al-Mariam). ETA: for the record, "Mary" is not her name. In Aramaic, the language of their region at the time, her name was "Mariam". And in Hebrew it's translated as "Miriam". Arabic is a Semitic language like Aramaic and Hebrew, hence her name being Mariam/Maryam.
The fact that you don't even know this shows your ignorance on the subject. And ironically, Muslims even greet each other the same way the Prophet Jesus greeted people in the Bible. "Assalamu alaikum" means "peace be with you/peace be unto you", which is the same thing the Prophet Jesus says in John 20-21 & Luke 24:36. LOL