The people's voice was not heard

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LumenImagoDei

Because apparently California isn't a part of the United States anymore. I dunno. Trump supporter rhetoric rarely makes sense to me.

California, and New York, aren't the entirety of the United States.

FTFY

And people voted Democrat in more states than CA and NY. So what are you fixing besides trying to paint a narrative that Democrats only exist in two states?

Seriously? I've read this entire thread and nobody has said that so quit projecting.

What everyone is saying is Trump won by electoral college very convincingly and to deny that is just showing ignorance.

No one is denying that and clearly you didn't read the thread if you think that is a point that must be stated.

What's funny is that if the results were flipped (Trump winning popular vote but losing the EC) then these people praising the EC would be saying what a joke it is and how we need to get rid of it. Vice versa for Democrats.

Partisan politics is the culprit and is the worst thing to ever happen to this country in my opinion.

a reply to: LumenImagoDei

The first thing you said is true and bares out with the fact that the Trump supporters were whining about how the election was 100% rigged RIGHT up until Trump won.

I disagree with your second part. Partisan politics has existed in this country since George Washington's times. He is the only President not to be part of a political party. So partisan politics can't be the worst thing to ever happen to this country if it's been with us since the beginning. What IS new is this climate of rejecting all forms of compromise that started under Obama and will continue under Trump (largely because of his divisive and alienating attitude towards his non-supporters).

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LumenImagoDei

The first thing you said is true and bares out with the fact that the Trump supporters were whining about how the election was 100% rigged RIGHT up until Trump won.

I disagree with your second part. Partisan politics has existed in this country since George Washington's times. He is the only President not to be part of a political party. So partisan politics can't be the worst thing to ever happen to this country if it's been with us since the beginning. What IS new is this climate of rejecting all forms of compromise that started under Obama and will continue under Trump (largely because of his divisive and alienating attitude towards his non-supporters).

When Trump supporters were talking about a rigged election it was primarily referencing a hostile media. How many times do we have to bring out the over sampled polls, the fake stories, the teeth gnashing and laughing from talking heads?

The media and Democrats had an orgasm after that debate when Trump didn't say outright he'd accept the results. Now that you've guys have lost, it is Democrats who can't seem to accept the results. We were told it would be a threat to our country. Unpatriotic. Unprecedented. Yet it is the Democrat party doing every. single. thing. they accused conservatives of doing.

I have never seen such whining and moaning. Did 250,000 conservatives converge on Washington to protest Obama? Did Republican congressman say they weren't going to the inauguration?

originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
What's funny is that if the results were flipped (Trump winning popular vote but losing the EC) then these people praising the EC would be saying what a joke it is and how we need to get rid of it. Vice versa for Democrats.

Partisan politics is the culprit and is the worst thing to ever happen to this country in my opinion.

Actually a Republican getting the popular vote by a wide margin and losing the EC is near impossible.

Look close at the Democrat States EC.

originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
a reply to: eriktheawful

No, I'm saying that 63,000,000 Americans voted for Hillary. By saying that the American people won does that mean you're calling 63,000,000 people un-American?

Nope.

What I'm saying is: Americans won.

But how? you ask.

Easy: Since it was (I hope) 100 percent American citizens that voted in the election, then no mater who won, Americans Won.

Period.

See....this is part of the problem.

Y'all want to label people: Conservatives....Liberals.....Democrats.....Republicans.....etc, etc, etc.

We're all Americans though. But, while we are all Americans, we don't all have the same political beliefs, ideas and way of thinking. We also all do not live the same kinds of lives or in the same places with the same concerns, wants or needs.

So we're all different too.

But that doesn't mean that one group should always dictate to another group. New York should never dictate to me down here in South Carolina how I should live all the time. Just as it's not fair for me to do the same thing to New York. I might have my opinion about it, but I'm not the one that lives there, just as they do not live here.

Populations tend to cluster in cities, but city worries and concerns are not always the same as those of us who live in more rural areas, and the opposite of that is true too: rural area concerns in most cases are not the same as those living in cities.

The Framers of our country knew this. They knew that if you allow the leader of the country to be picked by a popular vote, that it will always be the heavy population centers that win, leaving the rural population out in the cold each time.

Also: not every state has huge mega cities in them. Our country is a union of STATES. It's not the "United Cities of America".

So in order to try and make things not only more fair, but attractive to states to want to be in the union, they had to make compromises. This is why each state gets 2 senators in the senate, no mater what their physical size or population density. However, if your state has a higher amount of people, you do get more representation in congress (which is why we have 435 congress people in the House).

Each state gets a certain amount of electors to vote for president, because it is the STATES, not the people that elect the POTUS. However, those amount of electors are also determined by population.

Even so, Trump won a majority of STATES. The Majority of Counties over Clinton. That's because the majority of those people in those places voted for him.

Was it the majority of the population of the US? Nope. But then, that's not how we vote for POTUS, because if we did, only the mega cities of this country would count, and that's not all that the US is made up of.

So who won? Trump. Who also won? The American People, because indeed, we who voted are all Americans, and our system did exactly what it was designed to do: Not allow the mega population centers to dictate things all the time.

So yah, the American people won. Our system worked just fine.

If the Democrats want to win back the WH in 2020, they need to do 3 things:

1) Fix themselves. Quite obviously to me their party if filled to the brim of corrupt individuals that will lie, cheat and steal even from their own people and voters.

2) Pick a more viable candidate that can appeal to ALL voters...not just Dems or Liberals.

3) Don't treat certain states as a lost cause. Stump there. Also: never assume you'll get a state's EC votes just because of what party you are with. Go to them and stump there too.

originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
a reply to: FauxMulder

The popular vote.

The map above is the popular vote on a county by county level.

Give it up. This is a free country you know. Everyone who is not happy is free to go live elsewhere if they cannot support the "peaceful transition of power"

.

a reply to: theantediluvian

And those maps are why the other map is till relevant.

You still need about 18 Wyomings to cancel out just one Cali in an EC win. But please, continue with your whining.

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: avgguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Look at the electoral map and then make your own judgement, and isn't it great that the states with lax voter id laws are the ones that are most heavily blue 🤔

The desperation of Trump supporters to believe theirs is the opinion of the majority of Americans! Would you like to talk about all the red state voter suppression and gerrymandering? Let's start with North Carolina.

If Obama's agenda was actually working for the majority of the country, Hillary would have won in the majority of the states, not just in California.

And just because Obama's agenda is popular there, didn't make it popular enough to win her enough support to win enough other states. That's how the system works.

She got her 55 vote reward for winning California, but it wasn't enough to make up for not winning enough support in enough other states.

Across the majority of American, too many voters have had enough of Obama's agenda and told her to take a hike.

I just don't get what part of Representative Republic people don't understand. The US is not a democracy. Yes we "spread democracy" and use democracy to tell our representatives how to vote but we have never been a pure democracy. Everyone backing and continuing this popular vote stuff is backing a mob rule system and should probably wait until they hash out how many people who were not eligible to vote, did vote anyways.

The popular vote wasn't even recorded until 1824 during the election that Andrew Jackson won. The US was not and has never been a pure democracy. If it was why didn't they record it during the first election?

originally posted by: rickymouse
This country is a combination of many states, all having some rights as to the election of the president. The majority of the people in most states voted for trump. States with more people are given more votes with the electoral college for a reason, that is because we cannot have a small amount of states dictating the rest of us. Our electoral college was put there for a reason, to equalize our voting rights.

So - it's about minorities not being rode over roughshod by majorities?

It's funny how some people are for quotas and government intervention when it suits them

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I would say that the majority of people in New York City and most of the high populated areas of California are white. How is that a Minority. I suppose now you are going to say Democrats have become a minority since most areas voted Republican.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: LumenImagoDei

2 million votes in California, where 10 million illegal immigrants are encouraged to vote.

Moonbeam said he would allow all of the illegals a vote and like you say, he encouraged them to vote...Just as Obama did on National tv...

originally posted by: LumenImagoDei
a reply to: Bluntone22

Then stop saying the American people won because the American people voted Hillary. I don't have any beef with the electoral college, I have beef with Trump supporters saying something that is clearly false.

Illegal Mexicans are not American people...And since Moonbeam encouraged them to vote it's more than reasonable to believe they did...So you have no evidence your numbers are accurate...

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: LumenImagoDei

You are 100% correct.

60 million voters should have remained silent just like the millions that didn't vote at all.

And California should in fact run the entire Nation.

Problem is, the Constitution is *STILL* in print.

2016 solidified the Electoral system.

Mob rule is not allowed in a Presidential election.

Mob rule prevails in State and Local elections only.

Velcome to Amerika.

And let's not forget...Hillary got far less than 50% of the total votes cast...She has no mandate of the people...