Lets have an honest talk about Religion

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Abysha

Isnt everything you said ideals? I could put Harry Potter on Display and say it makes sense with ideals

Less "ideals" than the mainstream religions. I come to my conclusions based on measurable results and personal gnosis experience, not something written to maintain a patriarchal control scheme for old kings and emperors who want to keep the serfs and slaves scared and obedient.

We aren't on this thread to "prove" the way we practice spirituality. I just answered the OP's questions like they asked us too.

Religion and spirituality are two entirely different things. Now this is what I believe and only what I believe. You do you, I don't have any desire to tell others how to live.

Do I believe there is some ultimate power out there, a creator if you will? Sure I suppose. Call it God or whatever you want. Some higher power.

Does this mean I am religious? Not one bit. I find religion to be a joke and if said power were paying attention (I don't believe this to be the case) I think said power would be outraged by religion.

As far as I am concerned, this higher power has no day to day dealings with Earth or it's inhabitants. Too much other stuff going on throughout the universe to focus on one little planet full of eff ups...

No heaven. No hell. But something that created everything and still does.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

If you really think about it, most of the things that fall under what we think of as evil also could be described as complete selfishness with utter disregard for anyone else. And there are many things that fall inside that category that are in a sense mighty "good" for you interms of self-gratification, but when you take the total picture into account, they are not necessarily the wisest in terms of others, even your relationship with others.

But good in terms of easy self-grtification can be very shiny and convincing, and in a sense, it could be said that we live in a society and culture that encourages people to take that shinyevil view - short term, selfish, self0-gratification view.

Agreed. Although I would include, and even place as more important, not only selfishness but harmful ambition (which ties in). Self gratification is only evil if it comes at another's expense. Same with ambition.

a reply to: Abysha

But everything you declare is subjective to you, do you think the patriarchal society was governed by men?
A man swings an axe, for whom? Always a woman,no? Dont go to a place where chivalry is based on the control of a matriarch, everything put in place, is by woman who tries to grab the throne under the influence of declaring, love.

Western religion removed the Matriarch and instead put a Patriarch, do i care who governs no. I do care about people understanding ideals means conflict.

I said, or could refine myself;" You put ideals and make a difference between good an evil based on your culture "
In a magical world, you can choose whatever you like

originally posted by: Peeple

originally posted by: SaturnFX
I find everything I dislike is inherently evil, and everything I like is good and godly.

my sexual preference..any variation is evil
my values on when to kill
my views on animals
my views on what to question and what should remain unquestionable
etc....
I should write a book on this..because to me its obvious what is and isn't evil...and anyone who says otherwise is most likely evil..and evil people should be slain.

Religion


in a million years, the stones wont remember humanity

I though you were serious. Now I am not so sure. Sarcasm?

Poes law get ya?

a reply to: SaturnFX

And now I learned fun stuff. Thank you, never heard of poe's law before.

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Abysha

But everything you declare is subjective to you, do you think the patriarchal society was governed by men?
A man swings an axe, for whom? Always a woman,no? Dont go to a place where chivalry is based on the control of a matriarch, everything put in place, is by woman who tries to grab the throne under the influence of declaring, love.

Western religion removed the Matriarch and instead put a Patriarch, do i care who governs no. I do care about people understanding ideals means conflict.

I said, or could refine myself;" You put ideals and make a difference between good an evil based on your culture "
In a magical world, you can choose whatever you like

Most of what you said can be said about any belief.

None of what you said really refutes my beliefs nor do my beliefs need refuting.

I thought we are all sharing our perspectives.

a reply to: Abysha

Didnt have a single word or meaning declaring belief, you cant just change the words to fill a statement...
Western world matriarch, religious world patriarch..

Jane Goodall Zoologist Website

Its shows how the real world works..

Religion is a system of cooperation and competition.

Like all systems in which people live, an askew imbalance in one direction will lead to catastrophic failure.

I cite both the Worldwide Communist Movement and Colonial Capitalist Imperialism as examples of systemic imbalances and the unnecessary death of hundreds of millions of people, stemming from total cooperation.

I cite the variety of processed foods available in your local supermarket and overuse of cheap fossil fuels as examples of systemic imbalances which lead to waste, pollution, cancer and the unnecessary death of tens of millions of people, stemming from total competition.


One thing that's obvious is that the state is a much bigger killer whether it's a monarch or a party leader. The state starts off with a privileged and protected monopoly, companies need to earn that status and work harder to keep it. Statistically speaking you should side with the system less likely to indiscriminately kill you for it's own sustenance, if only on the principle that you are alive and want to continue being so. Which in this case is religion as a corporation and not as a state institution.

I believe that duality (us vs them thinking) is a tool and a cause for evil. I see the same curse manifesting in Zionism, wahhabism and Nazism. Those ideas are easy to spot if you logically read any of the Abrahamic books and question every individual idea.

If you have people who are free from duality perception then these people can live together in peace with each other. Peace is easy if beings are mutualistic and follow the golden rule and make no exception where they can be hypocrites.

If a god need submission to faith then it is not divine from my point of view since it's behavior do not reflect that mutualistic core. It reflects a pompous ego instead of a being who wants to connect to another on the highest possible level of unity for the good of both beings.

From my own experiences I would say some religion is third eye blind leading the third eye blind.

originally posted by: Belcastro

whats the point of living if religion doesnt matter?

I think the point in living without religion is that religion itself doesn't matter. Religion is merely a social structure that allows certain individuals power over other individuals based upon something as one sided as "belief."

Most people know right and wrong and also have a certain amount of empathy naturally, so religion, in my opinion, serves no other purpose but mind and thought control.

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Belcastro

Im gonna go Trekkie on this and apply Prime directive.. When a culture is mature enough to understand the quote;"Both sides of the coin" instead of thinking in moral aspects;" Believing we are good.."

Evil or good is based on your culture, if a culture cant understand that there is no difference,then there is no purpose of changing any dogma if it fails with the basic principles of society and humanity..

Its just a belief..

There is objective good and evil even if humanity have not morally understood it. It is a science field just like any other field and you can measure it if you want to even in real time.

Maximize well being for all souls.

a reply to: Abysha

Self-gratification can also come at your own expense too.

Think about gluttony. Can you really argue that it's a good idea to over eat so much that you become hideously obese to the point where you can no longer carry out your normal daily activities?

That's just an example.

a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Actually, that is a jaundiced view of religion. While it can do those things you mention, it can also provide a place for believers to come together in fellowship to learn and grow.

How many people are so confident in their own beliefs that they can exist in vacuum?

One is the loneliest number and faith communities insulate a person from that as they are meant to.

My religion would be (no religion or rules) a group of people with many ideas and ways to follow from no scripture or books etc, ie, nothing man made but true self, spirit etc,,I'm not gonna try any of my above.

Now to Good/Evil, DarkvsLight so to speak,, for me they are the same coin, yes two sides, but no side holds more value than the other,, more,, light holds as much Evil as night does to day, Evil deed's happen as much in light as does in darkness,,, what I mean is (God) is just as bad in Day as he would be at Night,, no side wins in the end it's a game of who hits first... Sorry for the rant lol.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha

Self-gratification can also come at your own expense too.

Think about gluttony. Can you really argue that it's a good idea to over eat so much that you become hideously obese to the point where you can no longer carry out your normal daily activities?

That's just an example.

Yeah, that's terrible but, to cross the line into "evil" (in my eyes), it has to come at the expense of others. For example, I don't think smoking is evil but if I saw somebody blowing cigarette smoke into a baby's face... I'd be pretty appalled and label that as an evil.

originally posted by: tikbalang
a reply to: Abysha

Didnt have a single word or meaning declaring belief, you cant just change the words to fill a statement...
Western world matriarch, religious world patriarch..

Jane Goodall Zoologist Website

Its shows how the real world works..

I still don't understand what you are doing. Are you trying to talk me out of my own system of determining good vs evil? Are you just having issues because I mentioned the word "patriarchy" (you seem pretty hung up about it) or is it because you have an issue with the larger meaning of what I was saying.

Honestly, I don't know what you want from me and maybe I shouldn't have engaged you in response to begin with.

How about no more religion and just the truth..?

What we experience and nothing beyond that - is the truth, while thinking and speculating may be far from truth.

If the truth turns out to be 'spirtual' in some sense then is ok.

a reply to: Belcastro

All Organized religion is whacked. Faith is the key.....

if you were God would you write down everything you thought that was good and everything you thought that was evil and put it into a book?
Is right and wrong a decision of the creator to make or if you dont believe in a creator how do u go on living believing that there is no god.

If it were proven to me that God wasnt real then it would make me feel depresssed and maybe suicidal because all i think about is god and my relationship with it.( Not every single thought)