Einstein's thoughts concerning God, Jesus, Free-will

a reply to: zosimov

You accept the historical existance of Jesus? "Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life."

I don't know how much experience he had comparing mythologies. My favorite Moses myth is when the deity is offering to wipe out the whole tribal confederation and start over from scratch with Moses as the new patriarch and Moses turns him down. That's some pulsing personality too. Doesn't make Moses a factual character though.

"To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grast, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man."

Yes indeed!

For me, I have to disagree with Einsteins rejection of free will (although certain new studies of the brain, I believe, would contradict me).. I think that free will perfectly explains the presence of evil in this world

I think that all the factors, environmental and biological, by which determinism is considered true, are in fact all present. Nevertheless, there is a self determination by which those factors are not eliminated but rather stepped around by the individual will. It isn't complete freedom of will but it is freedom nevertheless.

Evil is a human concept.

Hypocrisy: The myth of pure evil


This distortion – hypocrisy in its most destructive form – is characterized by the belief that (1) evil is the intentional and gratuitous infliction of harm for its own sake, (2) perpetrated by villains who are malevolent to the core, (3) inflicted on victims who are innocent and good. Psychologists call this a myth because believing in this fiction often blinds one to the reality that evil is in fact perpetrated mainly by ordinary people, who respond to perceived harms, including “provocations” by their victims, in ways they feel are reasonable and just. Evil is not rare – it is commonplace, banal. And all humans are capable of evil acts. Psychologists like Jonathan Haidt and Steven Pinker maintain that most if not all the major atrocities in human history were carried out by ordinary people who believed that they were good, that they were innocent victims – that they had God on their side – and that their enemies were pure evil.

Do you believe in immortality? "No. And one life is enough for me."

Life after death looks like people walking away after a graveside service. The walking people are alive even after the dead are buried.

a reply to: pthena

What exactly do you mean by this below? I could assume what you mean and misunderstand so please clarify for me if you will. TIA

Life after death looks like people walking away after a graveside service. The walking people are alive even after the dead are buried.

a reply to: MamaJ

What exactly do you mean by this below? I could assume what you mean and misunderstand so please clarify for me if you will. TIA

Wherever life came from it is personal only as long as the person lives. Then it goes to others. No transmigration of souls. No discrete soul. No finite number of souls. A life splits up and gets distributed. No new life is identical to the ended life.

Or simply stated "No life after death for the individual". But that's my opinion, regardless of how minority it may be with respect to the vast numbers of philosophies and religions which would have it otherwise.

a reply to: zosimov

sf... Interesting.

Pondering on this...

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: zosimov

The compassion that you see is called altruism, and is a vital part of evolution. We all have to live together, lean on each other, use each other. Life devours life, in order for life to persist. It's an eternal cycle, that is neither good nor evil.

I find it quite interesting that life (in the form of humans) has developed the capability of destroying itself entirely. Would life evole for billions of years in order to wipe itself out?

But I do like your analogy of the dance!

a reply to: zosimov

I find it quite interesting that life (in the form of humans) has developed the capability of destroying itself entirely.

Populations die out all the time. Sometimes it's because of its own population explosion that its own food source disappeared, causing a species that once thrived, to starve to death.

Over populated rats go insane and cannibalize each other.

What is the purpose of any species thriving, only to be killed off by an asteroid, a virus, a flood or greed?

a reply to: windword

ay there's the rub! (to quote another great thinker)

This is why it makes more sense to me that life is one's individul (and the collective) struggle to maintain the integrity of one's own soul in the face of chaos.

Edit: I love your Bieber quote, btw.. so funny! I had to share it with my brother. Who knew he had such profundity lurking?

a reply to: pthena

Fascinating point on the nature of evil. I'd only ask why most humans agree (generally) upon what is good and what is evil?

I have always looked of the subject of freewill like this:

Let's say for a moment that you are God. In your hand you have a DVD that features a real person and their life from birth till death. All experiences and decisions this person makes are recorded on this disk and you watch it from beginning to end.

The choices made by this person are their own and as expected, some result in good outcomes, some bad - but it is all there on the DVD. A complete record of what this person HAS experienced. Its Done!

As God, you know what is going to happen to this person. Being God, you are not constrained by a period in time - Alpha & Omega - The Beginning & The End. Rewind time, place this person on the planet, and away he goes about his life and you observe him, but you know exactly what his life will be like, because it is burned on the DVD and no matter how many times you pop it in the player and watch it, it will be the same story.

So, Freewill, but with a predetermined outcome might be possible.

a reply to: pthena

Interesting! I would have totally misunderstood then so I'm glad I asked and you were able to freely answer.

Then it goes to others.

What others.. like other people who are alive?

A life splits up and gets distributed.

Where does said life distribute to?


So when you say, "No life after death for the individual". You mean they live no more and are just obsolete. Done/Gone/Over?

originally posted by: EdwardDrake

So, Freewill, but with a predetermined outcome might be possible.

Yes, very similar to my own thoughts on the matter.

a reply to: EdwardDrake

The only problem I have with that idea is this.... with each and every choice no matter how big or little the outcome can change drastically with one little choice that was made not on said CD which in turn creates an entirely new cd.

If we are supposedly made in "his image" this means we are creators. We can see all we have created abroad and within... we see the proof of such ..... so that idea is true.. we are creators.

What if we create our own cd as we go however the cd we are hoping for and counting on to be made is such every little itsy bitsy choice has to be precise. Otherwise.... how many times would someone have to intervene before the cd is actually the way it's supposed to be without any errors?

I have heard of "spirit guides" but even with a guide o guides... could you imagine having that job? lol

originally posted by: MamaJ
Love Einstein and of course all free thinkers.

Yes! The bio I'm reading describes Einstein as a rebel who spent the first epoch of his existance making great strides in the field of quantum mechanics, and the latter years struggling with the uncertainties his discoveries brought. A fascinating man.

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: EdwardDrake


If we are supposedly made in "his image" this means we are creators. We can see all we have created abroad and within... we see the proof of such ..... so that idea is true.. we are creators.

Great point MamaJ

a reply to: zosimov

I'd only ask why most humans agree (generally) upon what is good and what is evil?

Ethical rules based upon evolution of human culture (civilization). What has worked in the past, somewhat. This new globalism is new. We're having a bit of struggle adapting. Beyond the unconscious cultural that we pick up by a sort of osmosis, we can look beyond by using aesthetics as a means of developing further ethics.

a reply to: MamaJ

Where does said life distribute to?

The wind, the grass, the trees, the bees,
and little girls with skinned up knees.

You mean they live no more and are just obsolete. Done/Gone/Over?

Some people's lives are remembered. Then some are interpreted in the best light and the half-life is memorialized. Others, the opposite to be remembered as the infamous. Most are forgotten though eventually, remembered by friends and relatives while they live.

I would put forth one way of looking at free will, a construct like any other in that whatever construct you truly believe in shapes your perception of sensory data and whatever you focus on expands within your awareness. If I can say it like this, let's hypothesize that there is a limited free will in that the "movie" of life, the drama or karmas play out as they are written/scripted, and from one perspective the perception of free will is as good as free will proper even though it is illusion or maya.

In other words we have a "limited free will" in that the only actual free will we have is in our attitude or interpretation of the movie. So to give a couple simple examples, if you must walk across a field of thorns to get where you are going you cannot get rid of the thorns, but you can put on some shoes. Similarly if it's going to rain then it's going to rain and you can't change that, but you can open an umbrella.

My 2 cents. cheers.

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: EdwardDrake

The only problem I have with that idea is this.... with each and every choice no matter how big or little the outcome can change drastically with one little choice that was made not on said CD which in turn creates an entirely new cd.

If we are supposedly made in "his image" this means we are creators. We can see all we have created abroad and within... we see the proof of such ..... so that idea is true.. we are creators.

What if we create our own cd as we go however the cd we are hoping for and counting on to be made is such every little itsy bitsy choice has to be precise. Otherwise.... how many times would someone have to intervene before the cd is actually the way it's supposed to be without any errors?

I have heard of "spirit guides" but even with a guide o guides... could you imagine having that job? lol

In this scenario, the DVD is an unchangeable recording. In other words "Read Only". All decisions have already been made, spirit guides (if applicable) have already done their jobs. The person's life has been recorded and is complete. There is no going back to correct "errors" as any errors that may have required intervention have already been called for by the "director" as this "dvd" was being recorded (in real time). Yelling "Cut!" and going back for a re-shoot is not applicable in this scenario.

There is no going back for editing.

All errors, intervention, etc. already Happened in real time during the recording process.

On the other idea you present, I don't think that just because you create something in your own image means that the created object created itself. If I were to construct a robot that looks like me, that does not mean that the robot created itself does it?

Once it is built and if it has the ability to do so, it can look at me and say, "hey, I look an awful lot like that guy right there!" but the fact remains. The robot cannot claim that it created itself.

We don't have to be the creators to look at nature and recognize that it was designed intelligently. We can build other things, but I don't think we can say that we created the natural universe itself.

Or maybe I'm just missing your point?

originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: zosimov

Einstein didn't believe in free will either. He was a deterministic, meaning that the hidden hand that wrote this virtual reality has written like a movie, all things are determined and we are merely riders on meat puppet buses. We observe, we learn, but we have no control.

Cheers - Dave

Sounds like someone didnt read the OP

..hopefully the ats scientists/atheists can chime in with their thoughts.. without downplaying the relevance of this great thinker..

I did read the OP, duh. Wtf does this say from the OP; "Is this a Jewish concept of God? "I am a determinist. I do not believe in free will. Jews believe in free will. They believe man shapes his own life. I reject that doctrine. In that respect I am not a Jew""

Nice try, but you failed, just as Hillary will. ;-)

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: pthena

The wind, the grass, the trees, the bees, and little girls with skinned up knees.

HA! I literally LOL'ed!! That's too cute. Reminds me .. one of my favorite men of all time...

My Grandfather always told me he would go back to the dust from which he came. He didn't believe in an afterlife. I had the privilege of being with him 24/7 the last 2 weeks of his life. It was a text book old aged death whereas we knew he'd get that burst of energy right before he took his last breath. I whispered into his ear A LOT to come to me after he got wherever he was going to tell me what it's like there, how he was doing, and be sure to to come into my dream with anything and everything he wanted to convey.

Months went by and I went to visit my father whom I didn't grow up with and was quite nervous. First hour I arrived at his house I walked to the lake and went fishing and asked my Grandfather to get me a bass on the line which my father said was almost impossible where I was fishing. Immediately a bass came on the line!!! After I got back home maybe a few weeks later I had a vivid dream of my grandfather. He told me what he was doing and how I needed to deliver a message to my Grandmother. The message he told me was one she whispered to him before he died. Not many people would believe such. Each experience shapes your perception and or beliefs.

I've had many experiences with things I just can't explain which is WHY I believe there is something more than this existence and that is just one of them. I have been surrounded by many loved ones passing away and the "coincidences" are immense to say the least!

Sorry, back to the topic at hand. I am a huge fan of mythology, philosophy and science. I love free thinkers as I am a free thinker myself. My passion for Einstein goes way back to when I was a kid. I had to find out all I could about him because I felt a certain connection to his writings and his persona as well. He and I share the same birthday. #GoPisces