Einstein's thoughts concerning God, Jesus, Free-will

a reply to: EdwardDrake

I totally understand your idea and especially after reading this below but after that sentence you lost me. lol

All errors, intervention, etc. already Happened in real time during the recording process.

And If I understand correctly then interventions would have happened and in my case would have happened a lot so much that the dvd burnt up with all the corrections in real time.

a reply to: zosimov

The assumption that an atheist worldview is the more intelligent or better reasoned one denies millennia of human thought.

originally posted by: Michielli

In other words we have a "limited free will" in that the only actual free will we have is in our attitude or interpretation of the movie. So to give a couple simple examples, if you must walk across a field of thorns to get where you are going you cannot get rid of the thorns, but you can put on some shoes. Similarly if it's going to rain then it's going to rain and you can't change that, but you can open an umbrella.

My 2 cents. cheers.

Hey, great post! I'd like to point out the happy coincidence that your first stars came from my first ever thread, so we have some Karmic connection there

Also would like to mention the infinite perspectives on said rain storm--from that of the farmer, to that of the guy who's running late to work.. not to mention the role that chance plays-- the wet roads causing an accident, the delay of the big game, etc.. all converge to create the theater of life.

I love this quote from MOBY DICK, kind of sums up the connection between fate, chance, and will..

Chapter XLVII THE MAT-MAKER

It was a cloudy, sultry afternoon; the seamen were lazily lounging about the decks, or vacantly gazing over into the lead-colored waters. Queequeg and I were mildly employed weaving what is called a sword-mat ,for an additional lashing to our boat. So still and subdued and yet somehow preluding was all the scene, and such an incantation of revelry lurked in the air, that each silent sailor seemed resolved into his own invisible self.

I was the attendant or page of Queequeg, while busy at the mat. As I kept passing and repassing the filling or woof of marline between the long yarns of the warp, using my own hand for the shuttle, and as Queequeg, standing sideways, ever and anon slid his heavy oaken sword between the threads, and idly looking off upon the water, carelessly and unthinkingly drove home every yarn: I say so strange a dreaminess did there than reign over all the ship and over all the sea, only broken by the intermitting dull sound of the sword, that it seemed as if this were the Loom of Time, and I myself were a shuttle mechanically weaving and weaving away at the Fates. There lay the fixed threads of the warp subject to one single, ever returning, unchanging vibration, and that vibration merely enought to admit of the crosswise interblending of other threads with its own. This warp seemed neccessity; and here, thought I, with my own hand I ply my own shuttle and weave my own destiny into these unalterable threads. Meantime, Queequeg's impulsive, indifferent sword, sometimes hitting the woof slantingly, or crookedly, or strongly, or weakly, as the case may be; and by this difference in the concluding blow producing a corresponding contrast in the final aspect of the completed fabric; this savage's sword, thought I, which thus finally shapes and fashions both warp and woof; this easy, indifferent sword must be chance--aye chance, free will, and neccessity--no wise incompatible--all interweavingly working together. The straight warp of neccessity, not to be swerved from its ultimate course--its ever alternating vibration, indeed, only tending to that; free will still free to ply her shuttle between given threads; and chance, though restrained in its play within the right lines of neccessity, and sideways in its motions directed by free will, though thus prescribed to by both, chance by turns rules either, and has the last featuring blow at events.

a reply to: MamaJ

#GoPisces

I don't know what to do with that. Is that a telephone link or something? I don't have a phone or tweeter or whatever.

I'm just throwing this out as a possibility. Spirit guides may last a while before taking on a new client. They will have witnessed things and may also influence dreams. Maybe even attract a bass with a bit of shiny modulation of the lure-di-con waves. Just guessing. I don't even know what a lure-di-con wave is.

ETA

I tried to look up lure-di-con. Found this instead.

a reply to: chr0naut

The assumption that an atheist worldview is the more intelligent or better reasoned one denies millennia of human thought.

That depends. An atheist "worldview" is simply one that rejects the proposed gods of any given particular culture and era. The idea of a rejection of some god being a more intelligent or better reasoned decision than acceptance of said god should be based on the proposed nature or definition of said god.

a reply to: pthena

Thanks for the link to that song! Loved it!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: chr0naut

The assumption that an atheist worldview is the more intelligent or better reasoned one denies millennia of human thought.

That depends. An atheist "worldview" is simply one that rejects the proposed gods of any given particular culture and era. The idea of a rejection of some god being a more intelligent or better reasoned decision than acceptance of said god should be based on the proposed nature or definition of said god.

It depends upon the definition you apply to atheism.

Some apply a meaning closer to agnosticism which I would see as different to atheism. Agnosticism is an assertion of ignorance and unsatisfying as a line of reason.

I would define atheism as an emphatic assertion that there is no God, however, a flat out denial of what one cannot be sure about (i.e: God's potential existence outside of one's experience), is also unsatisfactory.

Godels ontological argument is both reasonable and conforms to mathematical and philosophic formalism. Alongside that, there is personal revelationary experience, which is hard to argue against but could be the result of delusion.

The best we have is indistinct and unclear outside of inner 'proofs' in the individual.

originally posted by: pthena

the unconscious cultural that we pick up by a sort of osmosis

..or this could be our conscience, which appears to be an innate set of pre-written rules. If the rules were part of our nature, we wouldn't so often be at odds with them.. the struggle appears to be between our true nature and this set of rules.

Of course, neither of our theories could be proven true or false (at least not with our current scope of knowledge) but they are interesting to ponder!

a reply to: chr0naut

It depends upon the definition you apply to atheism.

It depends upon the definition you apply to "God".

I would define atheism as an emphatic assertion that there is no God

I would say that, if someone told me "Hey, see that thunderhead over there? Hear that thunder, see that lightening? That's God and the lightening and thunder is showing his anger at us." I think would be totally justified in my atheism.

If someone was to tell me that "God" is a being that required a certain human being, who was himself born of virgin, to die in a most humiliating and torturous way, to atone for all the mistakes of mankind, but only the people who believed that story will be saved, I believe I would be totally justified in my atheism.

If someone told me that the sum of all that is, was and will be is all that "God" is, I would say, "Okay, I can agree with that."

It's all about definition.

a reply to: chr0naut

Fascinating reply. Thanks!

reply to windword (sorry, messed up the quote)

What if someone told you that God Himself, or an offshoot of God, visited earth, shared His infinite wisdom, experienced life as only a human being could experience it, and ultimately and willingly suffered the thing that most human beings dread, fear (and blame God) for, while bestowing the hope of life after death for all who came after? Would that affect you any differently?

a reply to: zosimov

Can you define "God himself"? What is an "offshoot of God"?

a reply to: windword

I will accept your definition of the great I AM for God. As for the other, I offer an analogy of a plant, where a branch or offshoot is of the same material and quality of the original plant, the very same being, in fact. But did not appear at the same time or in the same form as the original seed.

That was off the cuff, so I'm sure there are plenty of holes, but think it will serve the purpose.

Edit: Sorry, just realized I misquoted you and the idea of God that fits your worldview.

a reply to: zosimov

I will accept your definition of the great I AM for God.

My definition is that "God" is the sum of all that is, was and will be. An offshoot of all that is, is just an offshoot of all that is. The Milky Was Galaxy is an offshoot of the physical universe, as is the solar system, the earth and all that exists on the earth.

The "being" that inhabits the body of the universe, all that is, was and will be, is the same being that inhabits the Milky Way Galaxy, our solar system, our planet, Earth, and our physical bodies.

That's my definition of "god".

a reply to: windword

Right. Noticed that and added an edit to address my mistake. About the rest of the question? Does perception change with a slightly differing view?

a reply to: chr0naut

Agnosticism is an assertion of ignorance and unsatisfying as a line of reason.

The irony being that if a man can formulate in his mind a metaphysical construct and call that God, how lame is that!
Here's the quote again:

"The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grast, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man."

The numinous! That's what he's talking about. "arousing spiritual or religious emotion; mysterious or awe-inspiring".Collins dictionary.

The word was popularized in the early 20th century by the German theologian Rudolf Otto in his influential 1917 book Das Heilige, which appeared in English as The Idea of the Holy in 1923. C.S. Lewis, citing Rudolf Otto, brought the concept into the mainstream of readership
wikipedia:Numinous

Even before Otto's book was written, The Wind in the Willows a children's novel by Kenneth Grahame, was first published in 1908, in which a numinous encounter occurs. I can't remember the exact passage.

The thing about the numinous is that the encounters do not come with a set of doctrines, they do not prove metaphysical theories one way or the other. Agnosticism is quite appropriate as a mental response in my opinion.

a reply to: zosimov

Thanks for that reply, very cool passage. It's quite a dense metaphor and has given me something to ponder for a while. And hey nice to meet you, I just registered here last night. Enjoyable post, something I think and meditate on a lot.

a reply to: Michielli

Nice to meet you!!! And welcome--(If I may serve as a welcoming committe, seeing as I'm a new member myself)
I definitely look forward to hearing more from you, once you're done pondering, and on other topics as well!

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: chr0naut

Agnosticism is an assertion of ignorance and unsatisfying as a line of reason.

The irony being that if a man can formulate in his mind a metaphysical construct and call that God, how lame is that!

An added irony is that a man can formulate anything at all in a mind that he can't explain enough of to verify its veracity, with a logic that comes from who knows where!

originally posted by: MamaJ
a reply to: pthena

The wind, the grass, the trees, the bees, and little girls with skinned up knees.

My Grandfather always told me he would go back to the dust from which he came. He didn't believe in an afterlife. I had the privilege of being with him 24/7 the last 2 weeks of his life. It was a text book old aged death whereas we knew he'd get that burst of energy right before he took his last breath. I whispered into his ear A LOT to come to me after he got wherever he was going to tell me what it's like there, how he was doing, and be sure to to come into my dream with anything and everything he wanted to convey.

Months went by and I went to visit my father whom I didn't grow up with and was quite nervous. First hour I arrived at his house I walked to the lake and went fishing and asked my Grandfather to get me a bass on the line which my father said was almost impossible where I was fishing. Immediately a bass came on the line!!! After I got back home maybe a few weeks later I had a vivid dream of my grandfather. He told me what he was doing and how I needed to deliver a message to my Grandmother. The message he told me was one she whispered to him before he died. Not many people would believe such. Each experience shapes your perception and or beliefs.

Hey, somehow I missed this when scrolling through the responses. Thank you for sharing this beautiful, personal story. You are very blessed to have experienced this.